241 réponses à ce sujet

[leadintea]

The DA series has really good lore, and as someone who's gay, I appreciate the amount of LGBT content it has (though it can get carried away with it and other social issues). That said, I wholeheartedly agree with OP, especially about the series having an identity crisis. If the series was more consistent in its presentation and aesthetics, I'd like it a whole lot more than it is now, but with the way it is, the design of the series is constantly changing from one game to the next, which makes for a really jarring experience.

[Draining Dragon]

Dragon Age Origins was a good, old school RPG.

I agree with your points regarding DA2 and DAI, however.

[AlanC9]

I was actually just estimating RPGs in general not strictly DA:O. In my experience it's usually around 5 actually dialogue options that aren't just investigation options or something else.

I think you're simply wrong about that. I suppose this is the part where we fire up the old games and start averaging?

I've got NWN2 installed and NWN1 handy. You want to handle the IE games? And are pre-BG1/ Fallout era games in-scope?

[txgoldrush]

Only in the sense that it's a third-person shooter with a radial menu. But if that's the case, then Mass Effect itself is a clone of Gears of War, since Gears came before Mass Effect and made (modern) third-person shooters popular.

No, it has a dialogue wheel as well and the XCOM HQ is like the Normandy, its a complete clone.

 

[Imryll]

To date Mass Effect has been a shooter in which you play a fixed character. Some may prefer that sort of game. I don't. Having two rather distinct franchises is a good thing.

[Giantdeathrobot]

I was with you up until this point.

 

IMO, the Thieves Guild was probably the best guild questline in the game, excluding the ridiculous RNG "steal a bajillion items to become the Guildmaster" ending.  Dark Brotherhood started out strong, and had a nice bit of black humour to it, but ended weak (and the DB are scrubs anyway...Morag Tong 4 lyfe), while the Companions and Mages Guild were just awful.  I liked the Dawnguard, but since that's a DLC I felt it was unfair to also include them.

 

Not that I think the TG questline is a good story...it's just better than the others.  And that aside, your criticisms were bang on. 

 

Would have been better if the questline was about, y'know, stealing like it was in Oblivion, rather than 2 quests about stealing followed by yet more dungeon crawls. I still remember stealing an Elder Scroll in Oblivion, that was top notch and the one great quest in the entire game. 

[txgoldrush]

Comparing the MASS EFFECT and DRAGON AGE franchises is ridiculous.    They are two completely genres.

 

Its obviously the Dragon Age franchise is NOT your cup of tea.  I suggest you move on instead trying to diminish people's enjoyment.

And here is the problem....its like people who bash me either think I am a troll and then pull the why can't we all get along routine.

 

And it doesn't matter anyway in the face of reality in which the gaming industry sees Mass Effect as the more influential RPG series. And its not just that, Dragon Age is weaker than the Baldur's Gate games and KOTOR as well.

 

Objectively, Dragon Age can be seen as the less influential, less innovative, more derivative series that averages weaker critic scores than other Bioware games. Thats not opinion. Thats fact.

[Steelcan]

 

And it doesn't matter anyway in the face of reality in which the gaming industry sees Mass Effect as the more influential RPG series

you keep saying this, but I see no evidence of it.

 

ME is itself derivative of Star Wars lore wise, and Gears of War gameplay wise.  It brings nothing new to the table whatsoever.  I like ME but its not an industry trend setter, nor is it particularly innovative

 

even the conversations aren't an original invention

[GreyLycanTrope]

I think you're simply wrong about that. I suppose this is the part where we fire up the old games and start averaging?

I've got NWN2 installed and NWN1 handy. You want to handle the IE games? And are pre-BG1/ Fallout era games in-scope?

Dude I'm ballparking ffs. Don't over think it.

[txgoldrush]

I don't think 5-6 options is really the average. Most of the time in DA:O you get four or fewer, and some of those would be investigate options in the voiced games.

As for the OP's argument, I'm not sure how DA games can simultaneously be too dissimilar and take too few risks.

Very easily, Dragon Age actually manages to do this. Although DA2's plotline was a risk, so I will give them that. However DAI easily takes no risks and plays it safe and so does DAO.

[Steelcan]

Very easily, Dragon Age actually manages to do this. Although DA2's plotline was a risk, so I will give them that. However DAI easily takes no risks and plays it safe and so does DAO.

as did ME1 and ME2, there isn't anything original about either of those

[OHB MajorV]

So critics scores pass as fact when critiquing something is based soley on the opinion of said critic. Your logic is so busted that sandal could turn it into a stupid rune.

[txgoldrush]

you keep saying this, but I see no evidence of it.

 

ME is itself derivative of Star Wars lore wise, and Gears of War gameplay wise.  It brings nothing new to the table whatsoever.  I like ME but its not an industry trend setter, nor is it particularly innovative

 

even the conversations aren't an original invention

Evidence is up there in my XCOM Declassified photo.

 

The dialogue wheel is an innovative feature that influenced the industry as well as its cinematic nature when it comes to WRPGs. Mass Effect paved the way in how to do cinematics and dialogue choices at the same time.

 

The Witcher 2 (and 3), Deus Ex HR, Alpha Protocol, XCom Declassified, Dreamfall Chapters, The Walking Dead, hell even FFXIII-2 all have similiar or the same systems.

[txgoldrush]

So critics scores pass as fact when critiquing something is based soley on the opinion of said critic. Your logic is so busted that sandal could turn it into a stupid rune.

Critic scores, the consensus of them, is a fact. That the Mass Effect series outscored the DA series is a cold hard fact.

[theluc76]

Dragon Age as a universe is great, as a game series it fails, why ? answer is that its not consistent

[KaiserShep]

Very easily, Dragon Age actually manages to do this. Although DA2's plotline was a risk, so I will give them that. However DAI easily takes no risks and plays it safe and so does DAO.

It's worth noting that Mass Effect's riskiest move is also one of the most hated among a great deal of the fan base.

[OHB MajorV]

Things can't be facts just because you want them too. The consensus among cartographers were that the world was flat. See how that panned out. The consensus among drug manufacturers of the late 1800's was that cocain had no adverse side effects. The point is just because people share opinions it's still just that, opinion.

Sales are another area that show nothing in terms of fact. If it did then Destiny is the best game ever. Seriously, you have an opinion and that's ok but don't feed me **** and tell me it's steak sir.

[txgoldrush]

It's worth noting that Mass Effect's riskiest move is also one of the most hated among a great deal of the fan base.

Thats what happens with risks, it divides. The Sopranos ending was a great risk too that is hated by a lot of the fan base. Majora's Masks time mechanics aren't liked by many Zelda fans.

 

That doesn;t make it bad.

[txgoldrush]

Things can't be facts just because you want them too. The consensus among cartographers were that the world was flat. See how that panned out. The consensus among drug manufacturers of the late 1800's was that cocain had no adverse side effects. The point is just because people share opinions it's still just that, opinion.

Sales are another area that show nothing in terms of fact. If it did then Destiny is the best game ever. Seriously, you have an opinion and that's ok but don't feed me **** and tell me it's steak sir.

Bad analogy, very illogical. You are comparing facts of the world to how people see art. Wrong.

[Steelcan]

The dialogue wheel is an innovative feature that influenced the industry as well as its cinematic nature when it comes to WRPGs. Mass Effect paved the way in how to do cinematics and dialogue choices at the same time.

no it didn't, dialogue choices existed long before ME was a thing.  KotOR immediately comes to mind

 

it's handling of choices isn't anything to praise either, we've all seen the reactions to how poorly BioWare handled them.  The Witcher 2 is a  much better example of them working well.

[OHB MajorV]

Bad analogy, very illogical. You are comparing facts of the world to how people see art. Wrong.

No, it serves to prove the point shared opinions about things doesn't make them fact. Science does. Art cannot be good or bad it can just "be". Your opinion may put it into one of those categories but it's still opinion. There is no scientific method to prove one is superior to the other.

You're a mass effect fanboy and that's ok but again, none of which you stated is fact. Even sales until there is not a single copy of either franchise to be sold "to date". Considering the short time DA:I has been available of course it hasn't outsold ME3.

[txgoldrush]

no it didn't, dialogue choices existed long before ME was a thing.  KotOR immediately comes to mind

 

it's handling of choices isn't anything to praise either, we've all seen the reactions to how poorly BioWare handled them.  The Witcher 2 is a  much better example of them working well.

When did I say Mass effect invented dialogue choices? Are you daft?

 

Mass Effect changed the way in how dialogue choices are presented, especially for voiced characters. Thats the fact. And The Witcher 2 is just like Mass effect when it comes to dialogue choices.

[txgoldrush]

No, it serves to prove the point shared opinions about things doesn't make them fact. Science does. Art cannot be good or bad it can just "be". Your opinion may put it into one of those categories but it's still opinion. There is no scientific method to prove one is superior to the other.

You're a mass effect fanboy and that's ok but again, none of which you stated is fact. Even sales until there is not a single copy of either franchise to be sold "to date". Considering the short time DA:I has been available of course it hasn't outsold ME3.

says the Dragon Age fanboy. You proved nothing.

 

And notice how I didn't use sales in my argument at all, I used influence with the industry, which is more important than even sales.

[Steelcan]

When did I say Mass effect invented dialogue choices? Are you daft?

 

Mass Effect changed the way in how dialogue choices are presented. Thats the fact. And The Witcher 2 is just like Mass effect when it comes to dialogue choices.

so you are arguing that ME's presentation of the same thing that had already existed is evidence of it being an influential and industry changing game?

 

It broke no new ground, in the case of ME1 and ME3 wasn't particularly well developed, and has been done better by numerous other series (including DA), but ME IS STILL THE BESTEST?

 

good lord