241 réponses à ce sujet

[Heimdall]

Its not the wheel, its the paraphrasing thats the innovative part about it. The Witcher 2 has no wheel, but uses a very similiar system.

Depends on what you mean by paraphrase. Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy didn't use the full line either. I'm sure there are others. Really, figuring out you can write something as a standin for the full line doesn't take a whole lot of effort nor is it game changing.

So are you saying that any developer that doesn't write out the full line is influenced by mass effect? By the most criticized part of the system no less?

[txgoldrush]

see thats just your opinion not a fact I think it went the right way 

people said the levels sucked in DA2 so they went ahead and made some very atmospheric and diverse enviroments in DA:I and you make it sound like its a bad thing that they listened?!?

C'mon man

There is listening and then there is overreacting to where you do know what you are doing and aren't playing to your strengths. DAI doesn't play to Bioware's strengths all the time.

[KaiserShep]

As far as paraphrasing goes, DA:I actually does this better than Mass Effect.

[txgoldrush]

Depends on what you mean by paraphrase. Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy didn't use the full line either. I'm sure there are others. Really, figuring out you can write something as a standin for the full line doesn't take a whole lot of effort nor is it game changing.

So are you saying that any developer that doesn't write out the full line is influenced by mass effect? By the most criticized part of the system no less?

If it was so criticized, than why are more gaming companies using similiar systems? We have a vocal minority problem here.

[txgoldrush]

As far as paraphrasing goes, DA:I actually does this better than Mass Effect.

I actually agree, see my OP, however, I do think that overall Shepard was the better protagonist. But that is more than just dialogue wheel.

 

Although DAI builds off the use less extremes approach that ME3 had.

[AresKeith]

says the Dragon Age fanboy. You proved nothing.

 

And notice how I didn't use sales in my argument at all, I used influence with the industry, which is more important than even sales.

 

The irony of calling someone a fanboy

[Steelcan]

If it was so criticized, than why are more gaming compnies using similiar systems? We have a vocal minority problem here.

because they did it better?  The Witcher and DA:I both put even ME2's wheel to shame

 

Telltale doesn't use it, nor do Bethesda games

[Heimdall]

There is a right way to react to criticism and a wrong way. ME3's gamplay was the right way to react to criticism of ME2's system being shallow. Thats because it wasn;t overhauled. It was deepened and built upon logically. It was evolved, not torn down. DAI's exploration on the other hand, was a huge overreaction to DA2's problem to where it creates new sets of problems. Its like Bioware just reacted instead of tried to evolve things logically. So basically DA2 and DAI have opposite problems instead of DAI having just improvements.

Opinion, opinion, opinion. They reacted to the critique of a system by trying something new, that's not a bad reaction in and of itself, whether or not you liked the result. And they did react logically. People complain about enemies just being damage sponges in DA2 and DAO? Let's remove the healing mechanic that forces us to design encounters that way. People want tactical view back? Let's try and give them that. It's not a wrong reaction. It's a radical one, which in and of itself is not necessarily bad.

[txgoldrush]

because they did it better?  The Witcher and DA:I both put even ME2's wheel to shame

 

Telltale doesn't use it, nor do Bethesda games

But that doesn;t mean they weren't influenced by Mass effect.

 

Yes, gaming companies can and will build upon the Mass Effect foundation and make it better. Deus Ex HR dialogue battles are one way Bioware's innovative system was used in a very unique way and built upon.

 

 

agreed but thats to be expected Shepard had three games !

It was more than just that. Shepards background was better defined than the Inquisitors as well, for example.

[Heimdall]

If it was so criticized, than why are more gaming companies using similiar systems? We have a vocal minority problem here.

Because it's not hard to come up with and can be done a lot better than Mass Effect ever did it?

[Steelcan]

But that doesn;t mean they weren't influenced by Mass effect.

 

Yes, gaming companies can and will build upon the Mass Effect foundation and make it better. Deus Ex HR dialogue battles are one way Bioware's innovative system was used in a very unique way and built upon.

 

 

It was more than just that. Shepards background was better defined than the Inquisitors as well, for example.

Or maybe they were inspired by the same games ME drew on

 

 

a better defined background does not a better character make.  Hawke has an incredibly defined background, yet the reaction to Hawke is mixed at best.  For an RPG the ability to customize your background is important, and DA:O/I leave ME in the dust in regards to that

[Eterna]

I actually agree, the series feels messy and it lacks direction. This game could have been great but it decided to deliver a lazy and predictable man quest in favor of fetch quests. 

[txgoldrush]

Opinion, opinion, opinion. They reacted to the critique of a system by trying something new, that's not a bad reaction in and of itself, whether or not you liked the result. And they did react logically. People complain about enemies just being damage sponges in DA2 and DAO? Let's remove the healing mechanic that forces us to design encounters that way. People want tactical view back? Let's try and give them that. It's not a wrong reaction. It's a radical one, which in and of itself is not necessarily bad.

Two examples, but thats not where the biggest complaints are coming from. The biggest complaints are that the story and the exploration do not mesh well and that the side quests can be a bunch of filler and busy work. That comes from an overreaction from DA2.

[txgoldrush]

Because it's not hard to come up with and can be done a lot better than Mass Effect ever did it?

And it has.

 

Most games do dialogue systems better than Ultima for example, but that doesn't mean its legacy isn't cemented. We expect companies to do things better than its influences when it comes to mechanics.

[Heimdall]

But that doesn;t mean they weren't influenced by Mass effect.
 
Yes, gaming companies can and will build upon the Mass Effect foundation and make it better. Deus Ex HR dialogue battles are one way Bioware's innovative system was used in a very unique way and built upon.

Nor does it mean they were. Even if it did, it only proves that even a bad feature can be influential, so how's that proof of Mas Effect being a better franchise?

If anything, Deus Ex was the one that innovated and introduced something new with its mouseovers providing an expanded version of what Adam was going to say. Like I said, paraphrasing isn't a new idea.

[txgoldrush]

I never said that DA:I definitely has its problems (especially the boring ass sidequests we know Bioware can do better in that regard no idea why they went the Skyrim route on that one) but the game still is a classic Bioware game, it has great characters, a very customizable protagonist, many hard decisions etc. things that Skyrim lacks

But to often, Bioware goes away from that strength and delves into their weaknesses. And Bioware doesn't give their best story and characters here. I will also argue that the consequences are less impactful here as well (other than the mage templar choice) on a personal level, unlike the anyone can die ME2 or ME3.

 

Thats the problem.

[txgoldrush]

Nor does it mean they were. Even if it did, it only proves that even a bad feature can be influential, so how's that proof of Mas Effect being a better franchise?

If anything, Deus Ex was the one that innovated and introduced something new with its mouseovers providing an expanded version of what Adam was going to say. Like I said, paraphrasing isn't a new idea.

And how bad features influential? There not, they are quickly done away with. They can't be influential.

 

No, Desu EX didn't innovate, they expanded on Bioware's system. Thats not innovation.

[Heimdall]

And it has.
 
Most games do dialogue systems better than Ultima for example, but that doesn't mean its legacy isn't cemented. We expect companies to do things better than its influences when it comes to mechanics.

But to attribute all the ideas to mass effect when the ideas were around before is silly.

[Angloassassin]

And how bad features influential? There not, they are quickly done away with. They can't be influential.

 

No, Desu EX didn't innovate, they expanded on Bioware's system. Thats not innovation.

 

And yet the Kinect remains a feature still offered by Xbox.

 

Innovating = The act of changing or expanding upon by adding new ideas, methods, or products.

 

So yes, if they expanded on a system already in place. They innovated. Putting in new methods and ideas.

[txgoldrush]

But to attribute all the ideas to mass effect when the ideas were around before is silly.

But the way its presented is different. Ultima used keywords, than other games found a new way to presnet dialogue with full dialogue, Mass Effect comes along and finds a way to present dialogue in a more cinematic fashion.

 

I never even attributed all ideas to mass effect in the first place, only that they found a way to present dialogue more cinematically and seamlessly, which influenced the rest of the industry.

[Heimdall]

And how bad features influential? There not, they are quickly done away with. They can't be influential.
 
No, Desu EX didn't innovate, they expanded on Bioware's system. Thats not innovation.

When they're poorly implemented and someone else does them better, like Mass Effect paraphrases.

So doing something that hadn't been done before isn't innovative and doing something isn't original is?

[Melca36]

The irony of calling someone a fanboy

He loses all credibility by using the term.

[Tsunami Chef]

You should have taken Origins out of your analysis of the series and everyone on here would be praising you as lord baby jesus.

 

I have already put more hours into DA:I than I put into Mass Effect 3...which was my most played Mass Effect game...i guess that shows where I stand.