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[rumination888]

The damage bonus against weakened enemies is deceptive, too. A lot of people tout about how RMs deal more damage than other specs because of the weakened bonus, but the reality is that the bonus damage is there to offset the fact that they can't utilize the bonus damage from shocked enemies. And weakening a shocked enemy means you no longer have either bonus.

 

Meanwhile, the KE can make full use of Chaotic Focus, Conductive Current, the shock debuff, and can bring Cassandra and/or Solas without gimping a crucial aspect of the spec.

[aetryn]

I think the tooltip might be wrong on Templar's Will of the Maker ability... beause it sure seems like it fires a lot more than 5% of the time. I imagine it's probably Energy Barrage distorting it or something. Incidently, on the Shocked+Weakened front, Cassandra w/ Will of the Maker + electrical staff + Energy Barrage will often trigger Nightmare combos all by itself (because it Shocks on the first hit, then will likely Weaken somewhere in the chain, and it's a detonator itself) - I think I've seen up to 3 on the same Energy Barrage. I guess it's technically still a Cross-Class combo because the Warrior is supplying a passive.

 

I want to love Rift Mage. But I love storm magic, and at the moment the only TIer 3 material I have is Stormheart from Crestwood, which is Lightning based  (so choosing a different elemental staff would be a significant DPS downgrade). Yes, I know that you can head to the higher-level places early, but I'm trying to maintain some sense of progression. With Cassandra and Lightning spells and electrical staffs, non-immune enemies pretty much spend the entire fight shifting between sleep and panic from Nightmare, which is super handy. But the rift mage isn't really contributing anything to this other than the initial weaken, and the subsequent Asleep spam pretty much means the passives are all dead after the first 3-4 seconds of the fight. That means that for me, the spec really only has two high points - Pull of the Abyss as a fantastic opener (since it disables archers)/Fire Mine bait, and Stonefist, which is an excellent spell but often leaves me autoattacking to wait for mana to refill. I've been playing around with the other two specs more and more (chose after Crestwood, and still fooling around in the Western Approach, so minimal lost time if I want to switch). Part of the problem for me seems to be that the mage specs I've tried in the MP are all really fun, and I'm having trouble finding a SP spec that captures that - doesn't seem like it should be that hard with 4 extra abilities and more skill points to play with. Maybe it's a diferrence of dungeon crawl vs open world?

[Selea]

Both specs can do the op combo of cage+barrage/mine, Rift can do it a bit easier if you apply weakness beforehand, but idk I think KE is better if you are a min/maxer, but Rift Mage is pretty fun with all the options you have.

 

KE cannot do the same combos as a RM can. The only way to regen mana (and never to the point of a RM) faster than a non-spec mage on a KE is being in melee all the time and this means grabbing aggro. When you grab aggro and you have two/three enemies pounding at you then you need a short casting time/spammable spell to remain alive (even with a KE) and that means Spirit Blade. So, in the end, you spam a little SB, cast a couple spells, spam SB again. You DON'T have time nor space and neither enough mana to continuously cast high damaging combos as a RM can.

[Selea]

A lot of people tout about how RMs deal more damage than other specs because of the weakened bonus, but the reality is that the bonus damage is there to offset the fact that they can't utilize the bonus damage from shocked enemies. And weakening a shocked enemy means you no longer have either bonus.

 

 

 

???
The asleep combo happens only on shocked enemies if you use weakened on it. Where is the "damage offset" I cannot understand since the damaging combos have NOT a weakened + shocked effect (where's the shock + weakened on something like Static Cage + Barrage? Where's the shock + weakened on something like Fire Mine x2?)

[Capeo]

The damage bonus against weakened enemies is deceptive, too. A lot of people tout about how RMs deal more damage than other specs because of the weakened bonus, but the reality is that the bonus damage is there to offset the fact that they can't utilize the bonus damage from shocked enemies. And weakening a shocked enemy means you no longer have either bonus.

 

Meanwhile, the KE can make full use of Chaotic Focus, Conductive Current, the shock debuff, and can bring Cassandra and/or Solas without gimping a crucial aspect of the spec.

 

Huh?  Of course they can.  You open by weakening, granting you a 15% bonus damage and use the mana regen and flashpoint procs to spam Cages and Immolate (each proc of immolate gets Cage's bonus so with multiple Cages you're doing absurd damage) and detonate paralyzed enemies with Dispel.  You don't have to use sleep at all.  And if you do, losing the 15% for one second while blasting off a detonator then reapply it with Veil Strike, which is mana cheap, is worth it.  Particularly if that detonator is Barrage when Flashpoint is off cooldown because you're then guaranteed to start the cycle over.

 

And why would you bring Solas if you're playing a Rift Mage yourself?  As for Cass?  I just hit level 22 on NM last night after killing the last dragon.  From the start my party has been Cass, Dorian and Sera.  You can bring Cass, you just don't take the passive that causes weakness because, at the moment, the bug can kick in. 

 

I think the tooltip might be wrong on Templar's Will of the Maker ability... beause it sure seems like it fires a lot more than 5% of the time. I imagine it's probably Energy Barrage distorting it or something. Incidently, on the Shocked+Weakened front, Cassandra w/ Will of the Maker + electrical staff + Energy Barrage will often trigger Nightmare combos all by itself (because it Shocks on the first hit, then will likely Weaken somewhere in the chain, and it's a detonator itself) - I think I've seen up to 3 on the same Energy Barrage. I guess it's technically still a Cross-Class combo because the Warrior is supplying a passive.

 

I want to love Rift Mage. But I love storm magic, and at the moment the only TIer 3 material I have is Stormheart from Crestwood, which is Lightning based  (so choosing a different elemental staff would be a significant DPS downgrade). Yes, I know that you can head to the higher-level places early, but I'm trying to maintain some sense of progression. With Cassandra and Lightning spells and electrical staffs, non-immune enemies pretty much spend the entire fight shifting between sleep and panic from Nightmare, which is super handy. But the rift mage isn't really contributing anything to this other than the initial weaken, and the subsequent Asleep spam pretty much means the passives are all dead after the first 3-4 seconds of the fight. That means that for me, the spec really only has two high points - Pull of the Abyss as a fantastic opener (since it disables archers)/Fire Mine bait, and Stonefist, which is an excellent spell but often leaves me autoattacking to wait for mana to refill. I've been playing around with the other two specs more and more (chose after Crestwood, and still fooling around in the Western Approach, so minimal lost time if I want to switch). Part of the problem for me seems to be that the mage specs I've tried in the MP are all really fun, and I'm having trouble finding a SP spec that captures that - doesn't seem like it should be that hard with 4 extra abilities and more skill points to play with. Maybe it's a diferrence of dungeon crawl vs open world?

 

Sounds to me that you're messing up the rotation.  Both myself and Dorian use crafted Lightning staves with no issue.  Open with Pull followed by upgraded Cage, your mana will stay constantly full even if one or two individuals are effected by Sleep.  Don't ever use Stonefist unless you intend to sleep the whole group and will kill them with the next attack or you have a Flashpoint proc setup that's going to continue the rotation with back to back Stonefist or Stonefist>Barrage>Veil Strike.  It's not hard to keep your passives up near 100% if you're careful and for the short duration they're down you're dealing massive detonator damage anyway.  

[Gwaeron25]

The damage bonus against weakened enemies is deceptive, too. A lot of people tout about how RMs deal more damage than other specs because of the weakened bonus, but the reality is that the bonus damage is there to offset the fact that they can't utilize the bonus damage from shocked enemies. And weakening a shocked enemy means you no longer have either bonus.

 

Meanwhile, the KE can make full use of Chaotic Focus, Conductive Current, the shock debuff, and can bring Cassandra and/or Solas without gimping a crucial aspect of the spec.

Is that really important? I mean most of the time playing on Nightmare as Rift Mage you do something like this https://www.youtube....h?v=U7j-3E40nWY There's very few situations where RM doesn't feel terribly overpowered (mostly giants and dragons, but that's what your rogue is for).

[JaegerBane]

Is that really important? I mean most of the time playing on Nightmare as Rift Mage you do something like this There's very few situations where RM doesn't feel terribly overpowered (mostly giants and dragons, but that's what your rogue is for).

I think that was his point. Every spec can smash stuff up when dealing with mobs, but go up against a genuinely tough opponent and suddenly half of the RM's gameplay disappears. It's not really an 'advantage' to be good at dealing with mobs.

[Capeo]

I think that was his point. Every spec can smash stuff up when dealing with mobs, but go up against a genuinely tough opponent and suddenly half of the RM's gameplay disappears. It's not really an 'advantage' to be good at dealing with mobs.

Define tough. Because the only thing in the game immune to weakness is giants and they aren't particulary tough. Dragons? They are effected by weakness meaning you get your damage and regen buffs, meaning you're pelting them with non stop spells. Sure you lose your combos but everyone does. It's more like an archer than a DW rogue but played right and you're keeping up heavy sustained damage. I've done all the dragons on NM with the tank, 2 mages, archer with no issue. Used tonics but no focus abilities.

[JaegerBane]

Define tough. Because the only thing in the game immune to weakness is giants and they aren't particulary tough. Dragons? They are effected by weakness meaning you get your damage and regen buffs, meaning you're pelting them with non stop spells. Sure you lose your combos but everyone does. It's more like an archer than a DW rogue but played right and you're keeping up heavy sustained damage. I've done all the dragons on NM with the tank, 2 mages, archer with no issue. Used tonics but no focus abilities.

I'm not sure what point you're making here. The original issue was that the Rift Mage's crowd controller playstyle simply does not work on the tough enemies. So sure, you might be able to use your l33t skillz to bring them down regardless, but you're doing so simply by spamming nukes. Meanwhile the KE doesn't have to change anything to handle them. It still plays how it's supposed to play... Or any way the player pleases.

The game itself is too easy for class inefficiencies to create a genuine issue but the basic point is that a lot of the point of playing the rift Mage simply doesn't apply in the set piece fights. It only manifests when fighting the little guys.

[Ben Gadura]

I'm not sure what point you're making here. The original issue was that the Rift Mage's crowd controller playstyle simply does not work on the tough enemies. So sure, you might be able to use your l33t skillz to bring them down regardless, but you're doing so simply by spamming nukes. Meanwhile the KE doesn't have to change anything to handle them. It still plays how it's supposed to play... Or any way the player pleases.

The game itself is too easy for class inefficiencies to create a genuine issue but the basic point is that a lot of the point of playing the rift Mage simply doesn't apply in the set piece fights. It only manifests when fighting the little guys.

Rift mage is also about infinite mana. This only changes when fighting giants/red templar behemoths, creatures largely irrelevant.

[aetryn]

Huh?  Of course they can.  You open by weakening, granting you a 15% bonus damage and use the mana regen and flashpoint procs to spam Cages and Immolate (each proc of immolate gets Cage's bonus so with multiple Cages you're doing absurd damage) and detonate paralyzed enemies with Dispel.  You don't have to use sleep at all.  And if you do, losing the 15% for one second while blasting off a detonator then reapply it with Veil Strike, which is mana cheap, is worth it.  Particularly if that detonator is Barrage when Flashpoint is off cooldown because you're then guaranteed to start the cycle over.

 

And why would you bring Solas if you're playing a Rift Mage yourself?  As for Cass?  I just hit level 22 on NM last night after killing the last dragon.  From the start my party has been Cass, Dorian and Sera.  You can bring Cass, you just don't take the passive that causes weakness because, at the moment, the bug can kick in. 

 

 

Sounds to me that you're messing up the rotation.  Both myself and Dorian use crafted Lightning staves with no issue.  Open with Pull followed by upgraded Cage, your mana will stay constantly full even if one or two individuals are effected by Sleep.  Don't ever use Stonefist unless you intend to sleep the whole group and will kill them with the next attack or you have a Flashpoint proc setup that's going to continue the rotation with back to back Stonefist or Stonefist>Barrage>Veil Strike.  It's not hard to keep your passives up near 100% if you're careful and for the short duration they're down you're dealing massive detonator damage anyway.  

I don't have Static Cage on my MC yet - usually supplied by Dorian. It's entirely possible I am messing up the rotation. I usually open with Pull and Fire Mine, but then don't seem to have much else to do after. Energy Barrage puts Shocked on the target, Stonefist messes up Weakened, and Immolate overwrites Fire Mine, so has to be delayed several seconds. I usually end up with Energy Barrage and then autoattacking.  Maybe I need to dump Fire Mine for Cage, though in a level or two it won't matter as I will have both (only level 14). I'm also missing the Veilstrike upgrade, which would probably help.

 

How does back to back Stonefists continue the rotation? I've definitely had a Flashpoint proc and used Stonefist twice, but usually what happens is the enemy gets put to Sleep the first time, Ruptured and put back to Sleep on the second one, and I'm now at or near 0 mana. I'm not entirely sure Rupture does much damage, either. Veilstrike only would help if the enemy didn't get woken up in the meantime, which only seems to happen when I ditch the rest of the party. Maybe in a mass AE you'd be guaranteed to get a few of them back weakend with Veilstrike, but then how do you pick out that enemy to attack at combat speed?

 

Also, what about single target fights? Example: Western Approach Hyena. They are weak to fire, so Pull->Fire Mine.... but then what? They take about 15 seconds for my party to take down at this level (crafted Tier 2 schematic-Tier 2 material gear, except for the one Tier 3 material staff), and Weakened from Pull won't last that long (especially given that 3 seconds of it burn off before the Fire Mine initiates combat). Just about anything I have except Immolate and Fade Step will make it impossible to reapply Weakened. Of course, longer single-target fights isn't a situation Mages are focused at, but it at least feels like KE is more capable of contributing, even if that contribution is boring Spirit Blade spam.

 

I'm also not sure I could pass up the Will of the Maker passive on Cassandra. I like the mass Sleep/Nightmare mayhem, with no downside on bosses (unless you can't stand tons of Immune spam). I just don't like that it doesn't play well with the Rift Mage's passives.

 

Also, any advice for actually noticing Flashpoint procs? Is it possible to move the "procs" effect somewhere near the center of the screen so it doesn't require you to look down mid-frenetic-combat?