51 réponses à ce sujet

[Enesia]

Basic elemental magic is pretty boring on its own, we also used to have entropy/spirit/creation, I miss the glyphs and several other things they "forgot" about...

 

I don't get it. Because people say things like this or that is outdated, but you know what is also outdated elemental magic? Games like Gauntlet Legends use to only have elemental magic. Then TES came out and other games where we had big schools of magic, that were interesting and unique and meant you could build different kinds of mages and different beliefs about magic. Then suddenly the year turns 2012 and we go back to elemental magic and cut out all the cooler magic, because? Laziness?

[ZipZap2000]

I'm not a fan but you have good points.

 

My problem however is this

 

A.) You have to farm crafting materials both for schematics and for potions.

 

B.) You have to farm schematics or gold to buy them also you have to wait till they become available.

 

C.) There aren't enough potion slots to go on a prolonged journey on higher difficulties if you intend to attempt 1 quest after another. 

 

D.) You have to travel back to camp to use a crafting table and in most cases slow travel back to where you came from. 

 

My solution. 

 

A.) Make materials available for purchase. 

 

B.)Make schematics easier to come by or make them available earlier in the game. 

 

C.) Allowing mages to craft new potions without a table. 

 

D.) Same as C.

 

Now i'm not opposed to keeping the current system I just think it could have been applied better and i hope the next installment has a better system or returns a slightly nerfed healing class. If they don't want players abusing the mechanics fine, give them a better option. 

[Natureguy85]

That all makes sense from a gameplay perspective, but where did healing magic go? How is the limit on your abilities a good argument when there is no good reason for that limit in the first place?

[lichg]

This isnt dark souls, i dont have to limit my exploration based on the number of potions i got in my pocket. While the workarounds do work they come with their own issues and the fact that the only reason they removed the healing system was to avoid spam healing is silly considering you still have this problem only its worse since all characters can spam heal now.

And using heal time and time again isnt rlly spamming considering thats the healer's job, ya know? I dont see anyone complain about rogues "spam attacking" or warriors "spam blocking".
It was a give and take thing. You sacrefised a dps slot to gain a healer to keep everyone up. Not having enough dps could potentially be as deadly as no healing.

Also, i remember fights in origins that took ages and it was tactically FUN because you had to tank properly AND heal properly and ppl still died so its not like "spam healing" was thst broken to begin with. It was fun.

Finally, lore. It makes no sense. A herb that lets you heal any wound almost fully? And its almost as common as grass too. Ppl would be immortal, at least mages arent THAT common and not all can heal..
healing was always part of dragon age, part of the lore. It still is, actually, and the game keeps mentioning it too. It exists, but not for you. When you meet mother duckface the first time in the hinterlands she stands next to a wounded soldier and tells him there are mages thst can heal him. 2 problems here:
1) where are those mages? Id like to recruit one to my party.
2)theres a freakin elfroot right next to them, just use it as a potion..

Also the fact you can revive someone but not heal them is stupid.

Tldr: removing it fixed nothing if not made it worse and it also somewhat breaks the lore.

[ioannisdenton]

No healers is the most welcome change in Da:I. Healing is stupid as pretty much it locks a spot in your paerty for a mage and that mage MUST have the healing spell.
In daI i can play with 3 rogues or 4 warriors or whatever i want. Plus the use of barriers and guard is more strategic than casting a healing spell.

[ManleySteele]

A. Materials are available for purchase to make potions.

 

B. Correct to a point.  Some schematics are available for purchase at the start of Act II.  No Idea where to get the rest.

 

C. Absolutely correct.

 

D. See C.

[Morroian]

But there is healing via potions and grenades, this is why the removal of healing spells rather than make them less able to be used is stupid. BW like to make out like there was a gameplay reason but there wasn't. 

[Imryll]

Because barrierspam, coupled with potions, involves more thoughtful play than deciding on the fly whether having your mage use their limited time and mana to cast a damage, CC, or healing spell is most likely to benefit the group. Not. The new model doesn't feel more challenging, just less interesting.

[DEUGH Man]

In the first two games, healing potions seemed a lot more valuable because I wasn't running past an elfroot every three seconds, and they didn't randomly resupply at camps. In Inquisition, potions feel infinite. In Origins, it felt finite (though, really, you could have 100+ potions at a time.) Barrier also regens very quickly, and the AoE makes it difficult to not get your whole party in most situations you'll encounter. We also have a system where we can revive anyone at any point. At least the methods in DA:O and DA:2 had a cooldown period. My problem isn't that taking out healing spells has made things too hard. My problem is that it seems they overcompensated for taking them out. Things are veeeery easy on Normal. Well, most things.

[BroBear Berbil]

 

All in all, there are so many options to heal yourself in this game, a healing tree would be redundant and take very precious slots from your limited 8slots for abilities.

 

Ye its different, its not the same as before. Honestly tho, after you get into it, its much more enjoyable and versitale than a healing tree could ever be, and much more fullfiling to achieve aswell.

 

Good job Bioware.

 

You're citing the design decisions that were made because there is no healing magic as reasons why there shouldn't be healing magic? Well, yeah, I suppose if you added healing spells on top of everything it would be redundant.

 

There's nothing versatile about it. Between tanks being invincible, barrier spam, guard masterworks, and overwhelming DPS you don't take much damage in this game, even on nightmare, after level 8.

[ironhorse384]

I didn't like it at first but now its ok. It just took some getting used to and a little bit of planning in areas where there are refill boxes.

[Nefla]

I feel like the lack of healing magic forces your mages into all having barrier and revive (which forces you to get all the upgrades and filler in between) which spends a lot of your skill points which could have been used on more interesting spells (many of which were cut). The reliance on barriers and guard also makes using rogues in your party a bad idea :/  

[Enesia]

I feel like the lack of healing magic forces your mages into all having barrier and revive (which forces you to get all the upgrades and filler in between) which spends a lot of your skill points which could have been used on more interesting spells (many of which were cut). The reliance on barriers and guard also makes using rogues in your party a bad idea :/  

 

This in a nutshell. 

[BroBear Berbil]

I feel like the lack of healing magic forces your mages into all having barrier and revive (which forces you to get all the upgrades and filler in between) which spends a lot of your skill points which could have been used on more interesting spells (many of which were cut). The reliance on barriers and guard also makes using rogues in your party a bad idea :/  

 

Single point in barrier can work, depending on how diligent you are about making your tank taunt everything. I've never specced for revive. Barrier certainly feels mandatory though.

 

I gave Cole a fade-touched silverite and some heavy armor full of melee defense and he got through everything except dragons nearly unscathed with no control from me. With 4 and 5 hit hidden blade mastercrafts on his weapons his guard generation was really high. The armor was unnecessary though, it would have been best to keep him in leather for elemental resists, and his heavy armor is just plain disgusting.

[RavenousIron]

Wow... what are the chances? I just finished talking about how useless the Focus heal ability is on Knight Enchanter, here are my basic thoughts along with another skill the Knight Enchanter has.

 

What Bioware should have done is make Disruption Field deal 150% Spirit damage per second to enemies inside the field while it's active. That would've been much better than that silly 99% slowdown.

 

And instead of that silly useless Focus heal, they could've made it focus on Spirit Blade. Something simple yet elegant. For example: Sword Of The Fade - Extends Spirit Blades range and damage while active, and every third hit deals Spirit DoT damage. Or they could've made you summon another Spirit Blade so that you can dual wield them for 10-15-20 seconds while giving them increased damage and speed. Anything besides that heal would've been better.

 

I had the heal focus for a long time and never used it once and I play on Nightmare. It got to the point where I just removed the skill all together. It sucks because KE has very few skills and the focus ability is supposed to be your badass skill but instead they replaced it with a useless heal. Maybe next time.

[ironhorse384]

I feel like the lack of healing magic forces your mages into all having barrier and revive (which forces you to get all the upgrades and filler in between) which spends a lot of your skill points which could have been used on more interesting spells (many of which were cut). The reliance on barriers and guard also makes using rogues in your party a bad idea :/  

You can still manually revive so after speccing into barrier and its upgrade you can ditch the whole spirit tree if you want. I prefer to do it that way because the mage will sometimes revive while the battle is raging right on top of the downed character making it a complete waste of time as he gets killed right away after being revived unless you spec into the upgrade.I play a dw rogue and he's always going down so I wait until the battle has moved away and get either the mage or the archer to go get him up.

[shama]

Personally, despite some lore-angst about "where did the healing magic go? Why could I do this before but not now?" I am ok with the current system.

It has given me much more flexibility when it comes to choosing my party, because in DA:O one of those party members just had to be a healing mage or you were scuppering yourself. So in reality you only had a choice for 3 slots. Now I can take any 4, even 4 warriors if I want, because I'm not losing a party-slot because of a pseudo "free-choice".

[dlux]

Doing away with in-combat regenerating resource healing and automatically healing to full outside combat in favour of using a Vancian approach to healing resource management is greatly appreciated and a huge strategical and tactical improvement over the earlier games in the series, which is why it gets my full support.

Games that use a Vancian approach (e.g. the BG series) have healing potions and healing spells and a cleric (healer) class. There are also different types of healing potions and different types of healing spells with various levels of potency

 

DA:I only has simple healing potions which are strategically limited. And some healing bombs or something.

 

How is that the same?

[Siven80]

I liked the idea behind the removal of healing spells, meant more use of damage prevention.

 

But in reality that just means we are spamming the Barrier spell instead.

 

Also they seem to have removed the long duration crowd control spells from previous games too. Which means less damage prevention options.......which means more Barrier spamming.

 

I played previous DA games by using long duration CC spells to prevent damage and only used healing spells when im really low on health. Healing spells were a backup option for me, now really the only damage prevention available is to spam Barrier and generate Guard on tanks.

 

So i am finding the changes to be very dull.

 

I would love to have those long duration CC spells and a healing spell (with a cooldown) back.

[fchopin]

People still complain about lack of healing tree.

Are you trying to convince other people op or are you trying to convince yourself?

[BroBear Berbil]

Personally, despite some lore-angst about "where did the healing magic go? Why could I do this before but not now?" I am ok with the current system.

It has given me much more flexibility when it comes to choosing my party, because in DA:O one of those party members just had to be a healing mage or you were scuppering yourself. So in reality you only had a choice for 3 slots. Now I can take any 4, even 4 warriors if I want, because I'm not losing a party-slot because of a pseudo "free-choice".

 

You still need a mage to energize things or to take down magical barriers anyway, and that mage might as well have the barrier spell on them because it's just too good not to have. In this regard I don't see how it's any different than being forced to take a mage in previous games. You can destroy barriers with explosive shot but it takes longer, but there's no way to get around needing a mage to energize.

 

Healing wasn't the best reason to bring a mage in DA:O or DA2 either; it was haste (and heroic aura in DA2). Now haste is a focus ability that nobody should use, heroic aura is scrapped, and the only support a mage brings is focused around barrier.

[ZipZap2000]

A. Materials are available for purchase to make potions.

 

B. Correct to a point.  Some schematics are available for purchase at the start of Act II.  No Idea where to get the rest.

 

C. Absolutely correct.

 

D. See C.

 

Legit question where do i buy elfroot? Coz i've been looking everywhere. 

[ioannisdenton]

You're citing the design decisions that were made because there is no healing magic as reasons why there shouldn't be healing magic? Well, yeah, I suppose if you added healing spells on top of everything it would be redundant.

There's nothing versatile about it. Between tanks being invincible, barrier spam, guard masterworks, and overwhelming DPS you don't take much damage in this game, even on nightmare, after level 8.

my expetience with the boss at warden quest proved quite the opposite.at lvl 14 that fight was very hard at nightmare with ff.

[MacroN0va]

I didn't mind healing in the previous games and I don't mind its absence in Inquisition. I think the game is balanced just fine for it.

 

Having a few characters around half health, being low on potions, and deciding to explore one more area or close one more fade rift is pretty exciting. The people who think you need to travel back to camp every time you pop a potion are missing out.

[ironhorse384]

I didn't mind healing in the previous games and I don't mind its absence in Inquisition. I think the game is balanced just fine for it.

 

Having a few characters around half health, being low on potions, and deciding to explore one more area or close one more fade rift is pretty exciting. The people who think you need to travel back to camp every time you pop a potion are missing out.

Add to that, you're,in some cases, no better off because you have to fight your way through respawns just to get back to that point.