50 réponses à ce sujet

[Cavemandiary]

So guys, two days ago I finally got enough cloth to craft the AW armor. But now I am feeling a bit guilty. At lvl 4 and onward I was getting top of the leaderboard almost every game, even against lvl 15-20´s of legionaires, archers and kataris.

One game I got over 8000 points, with the rest of my team getting less than 2500. I haven´t even unlocked Pull of the Abyss yet.

And I have no illusions of grandeur, I know that it is not me doing that, but the class itself. It´s obviously blatantly overpowered.

I think that the problem is the incredible versatility and synergy: First, spiritblade does too much damage for what is essentially a basic attack. It also gives bonus damage against BOTH armor and barrier, which is completely unnessesary and makes the AW strong against pretty much anything.

Second, there is the barrier sustain. I remember bioware little snippit about the arguments of removing healing, and how, without it, the game would be easier to balance because it was hard to calculate just how much artificial HP a character would have, if they are constantly healed.

But isn´t that exactly what the AW does? Barrier is an artificial HP barrier, which is much higher than a characters natural lifepool. Fadeshield is essentially a superior form of lifesteal (because it also multiplies your HP by several factors, making him burst-resistant as long as enemies are around). Plus, he has a panic button on a short CD that does immense aoe damage, allowing for quick barrier restoration.

I have both a legionaire and an assassin, and AW feels like he tanks better than the legio, and does more damage than the assassin at the same time(except in 1on1). I moved to threatening at lvl 12 with my legio, but I moved to perilous at lvl 9 with my AW and I am STILL having an easier time with my AW, even though my legio has a better weapon. It could just be that I suck with the legio, but judging by other peoples experiences, I am not completely wrong here.

My suggestion? Lower the damage output of spiritblade down to 300% and remove the barrier/guard bonus damage, reduce the barrierleech to 20% and increase the CD on fadecloak to 15 seconds. It may sound like much, but if you have ever played (or played with) the AW hopefully you come to the same conclusion. At this stage, he is completely broken.

Alternatively: Scrap the above, but lower the maximum barrier significantly. Being a hybrid mage, this makes sense from a lore point of view. Perhaps it should double his HP rather than quadrupling it.

OR; Keep the barrier amount, but weaken the effect so that it only reduces ~75% of incoming damage rather than 100%.

For singleplayer I could care less about the KE, but for multiplayer some changes are nessesary. I know that this is not the first topic on the matter, so take it for what it is. In my experience though, repeating offending balance issues is a good way to get the attention of community managers.

PS. Oh, and if anyone knows of a way to disable the hilarilously bad DAMP party banter I will forever be in your dept.

Cheers, CD.

[Catastrophy]

Welcome in my department after you turn the dialogue volume down.

[Cavemandiary]

Welcome in my department after you turn the dialogue volume down.

If that fixes the banter, tomorrow i will wake up at 4 am and travel from Northern Europe to Brazil to buy the best quality of pineapples available. During my stay, I will live on the streets of Buenos Aires on nothing but sunlight and fresh air. Following that, I will charter to Hawaii where I will join a local nature conservation movement while cherrypicking the best possible coconuts.

At the end of my journey, I will go home to raise a newborn calf to a cow, feeding it nothing but caviar and truffles and giving it daily massages.



Then i will come to your house to make your a Pina Colada.

[Torkelight]

I agree... I feel a bit guilty and it's a bit silly that when I'm in a game with tanks, I tank the big, hard hitting mobs better than them and that I can practicly finish a whole group of monsters on my own. AW is ridiculously good at times (apart from some games where it doesnt go as well... penguin), especially against demons.

And as you say, it doesnt really feel like it is you who's being the good player, its the character.

 

And this makes me feel sorry for the Katari, and how ridiulously squishy he is compared. It's a shame really.

[Rhaine]

Guilt turns to resignation when you realise its prob the only class that can pull a bunch of useless players through perilous (or atleast moreso than pretty much every other class).

[Torkelight]

Guilt turns to resignation when you realise its prob the only class that can pull a bunch of useless players through perilous (or atleast moreso than pretty much every other class).

Well, only if you meet demons I reckon....

[Mindtraveller]

I totally agree. AW is a pretty fun class, but it's just ridiculously overpowered even without pull of the abyss. Then PotA completely breaks and shatters whatever small sense of sanity there was left.

[Storm_Changer]

I think it would be best to simply take pull of the abyss away from Arcane Warrior and give it to keeper, a class more suited to the spell. 

 

That way AW can't guarantee hit multiple enemies, which in turn means he can't sustain nearly as much damage, nor can he deal it. The Keeper gets a spell to replace disruption shield playing support and AW can get a new suitable skill. 

 

I think it needs to be pointed out that getting the most points doesn't mean you did the best. Classes like Keeper and legion are often what decide whether a team wipes or succeeds, they simply aren't credited for it. Plenty of classes can hyper-carry too, infact almost any class can when geared correctly. So that really isn't the factor you should be basing your assessment on. 

 

Spirit blade is AW's consistent DPS. Nerfing it would severely nerf the class, which isn't necessary despite what some people seem to think. It should maintain it's advantage against normal armour but lose potency against barrier enemies, to make it more in line with other mages. 

 

AW's real flaw is that he doesn't have the barrier spell itself, so he has to go into combat without barrier [unless he picks up CL and there's lots of targets.] This is his most vulnerable moment, as there's the most enemies and the least shield. If the enemies are far apart, AW cannot sustain his shield reliably, especially on the highest difficulty levels with archers hitting so heavily. 

 

AW is also vulnerable to any 1-1 fight vs a high single-target dps, as AW cannot acquire barrier faster than any assassin type enemy can damage him, in most cases. 

 

Realistically his OP-ness at the highest difficulty is pull of abyss. Removing that then makes AW more nuanced, as he can't simply charge in to any group of enemies. Apart from that he has his weaknesses, sufficient enough that without abyss you are much more vulnerable on perilous and even threatening. So really that's the only thing that should be nerfed, as it makes him a one-man army. At the very least it forces AW to work as part of the team with a keeper or other agro-drawers like legio. 

 

I would avoid nerfing anything that makes him stand out from the other classes, bar POA. 

[LandarenRNS]

instead of nerfing the AW, why not make the other classes viable?

 

O I forgot, we want to kill the fun so the player base dies out prematurely fast.

[Torkelight]

AW's real flaw is that he doesn't have the barrier spell itself, so he has to go into combat without barrier [unless he picks up CL and there's lots of targets

 

AW is also vulnerable to any 1-1 fight vs a high single-target dps

1) Pop CL, then PotA, then jump into the fray with activated fade cloak.... voila.

2) Nope. No character can effectivly tank 1-1 high single target DPS like the Arcane warrior... atleast thats my experience. Havent played a lot of templar or used a lot of single target taunts though...

Other than that - maybe you have a good solution there, but I doubt they will remove PotA completely from the AW.

[Rhaine]

I think you are overexaggerating how good pull of the abyss is, i mean its good dont get me wrong but it would barley make a difference to arcane warrior unless you are soloing or something.

 

It has little to no effect in pugs since nobody has the patience x.X

[J. Peterman]

instead of nerfing the AW, why not make the other classes viable?

 

O I forgot, we want to kill the fun so the player base dies out prematurely fast.

 

What on Earth are you talking about?

[Bobbysad]

AW is so incredibly OP. Here in the Aus, I've seen Echoic Aus guy solo perilous himself. Of course his gear is probably good, and has promoted himself a crap ton of times to get insane willpower. He just does one chain lightning and his barrier goes to max. Yes max, unlike new AW who have problems even charging it. Pull of the abyss is a suboptimal build anyway. fade cloak fade walk(whatever you call it), chain lightning.

 

Anyways the devs don't even play the game. Reaver gets one shotted by demon commander perilous so there's no soloing it. Just goes to show fade cloak, fade walk(dash) is so OP and necessary to negate burst damage. Barrier OP. Mages OP in fact.

[LandarenRNS]

AW isn't OP

 

The other classes are just garbage.

[ElectricFeel]

So guys, two days ago I finally got enough cloth to craft the AW armor. But now I am feeling a bit guilty. At lvl 4 and onward I was getting top of the leaderboard almost every game, even against lvl 15-20´s of legionaires, archers and kataris.One game I got over 8000 points, with the rest of my team getting less than 2500. I haven´t even unlocked Pull of the Abyss yet.And I have no illusions of grandeur, I know that it is not me doing that, but the class itself. It´s obviously blatantly overpowered.I think that the problem is the incredible versatility and synergy: First, spiritblade does too much damage for what is essentially a basic attack. It also gives bonus damage against BOTH armor and barrier, which is completely unnessesary and makes the AW strong against pretty much anything.Second, there is the barrier sustain. I remember bioware little snippit about the arguments of removing healing, and how, without it, the game would be easier to balance because it was hard to calculate just how much artificial HP a character would have, if they are constantly healed.But isn´t that exactly what the AW does? Barrier is an artificial HP barrier, which is much higher than a characters natural lifepool. Fadeshield is essentially a superior form of lifesteal (because it also multiplies your HP by several factors, making him burst-resistant as long as enemies are around). Plus, he has a panic button on a short CD that does immense aoe damage, allowing for quick barrier restoration.I have both a legionaire and an assassin, and AW feels like he tanks better than the legio, and does more damage than the assassin at the same time(except in 1on1). I moved to threatening at lvl 12 with my legio, but I moved to perilous at lvl 9 with my AW and I am STILL having an easier time with my AW, even though my legio has a better weapon. It could just be that I suck with the legio, but judging by other peoples experiences, I am not completely wrong here.My suggestion? Lower the damage output of spiritblade down to 300% and remove the barrier/guard bonus damage, reduce the barrierleech to 20% and increase the CD on fadecloak to 15 seconds. It may sound like much, but if you have ever played (or played with) the AW hopefully you come to the same conclusion. At this stage, he is completely broken.Alternatively: Scrap the above, but lower the maximum barrier significantly. Being a hybrid mage, this makes sense from a lore point of view. Perhaps it should double his HP rather than quadrupling it.OR; Keep the barrier amount, but weaken the effect so that it only reduces ~75% of incoming damage rather than 100%.For singleplayer I could care less about the KE, but for multiplayer some changes are nessesary. I know that this is not the first topic on the matter, so take it for what it is. In my experience though, repeating offending balance issues is a good way to get the attention of community managers.PS. Oh, and if anyone knows of a way to disable the hilarilously bad DAMP party banter I will forever be in your dept.Cheers, CD.

The only way any of the things you wrote could be true ( and some of them cannot be true at all no matter how crazy the scenario) is if you have a really good staff AND you ran ahead of everyone for the whole dungeon just to rack up kills.Still I say video or it didn't happen. Ohh and if you want to prove something don't make your comparisons against legionnaire's that proves nothing.

[Storm_Changer]

1) Pop CL, then PotA, then jump into the fray with activated fade cloak.... voila.

2) Nope. No character can effectivly tank 1-1 high single target DPS like the Arcane warrior... atleast thats my experience. Havent played a lot of templar or used a lot of single target taunts though...

Other than that - maybe you have a good solution there, but I doubt they will remove PotA completely from the AW.

 

Without POTA that isn't possible. Also you have to be pretty damn close to make it to the entire group in 2 seconds with fade cloak. To get to that distance, chances are you're already in range of some enemies. You then also have no way of retreating, if things go wrong. 

 

AW can't tank high single-target DPS in a 1-1 because the entire class synergizes with AOE damage to sustain the shield. Remove that and especially in perilous he can get shredded. 

 

Removing PotA would force AW to play as a team rather than being able to solo. To me its the most efficient balance they could make. If they opted for another change, it would have to be very well justified to supersede such a simple one, IMO. 

[Cavemandiary]

The only way any of the things you wrote could be true ( and some of them cannot be true at all no matter how crazy the scenario) is if you have a really good staff AND you ran ahead of everyone for the whole dungeon just to rack up kills.Still I say video or it didn't happen. Ohh and if you want to prove something don't make your comparisons against legionnaire's that proves nothing.

Have you even played the AW, or are you just trolling for no reason? If a 82 dps staff is "really good", then yes.

[Storm_Changer]

Have you even played the AW, or are you just trolling for no reason? If a 82 dps staff is "really good", then yes.

He does have a point, though. If you run ahead with AW you will almost certainly do the best, same with other classes. But if you stay with the team, pick up loot for them ect you'll find your score dramatically drops. It's easy to gimp the system in your favour, which is why your appeal to the leaderboards, which are known to be bugged, is incorrect. 

[Drogonion]

I dunno.  Asking for nerfs in a non-competitive pve side-show to a primarily single player RPG seems ... unnecessary.  Sure, if I want to win and I'm playing Threatening with a bunch of lowbies in bad gear, I'll jump on my AW to ensure a victory.  But I play the other classes just as much as the AW, because they are different and my objective is not to come in first each game but rather to have fun.  

 

If anything about a class bothers you, then simply play something else.  Yes, the AW hits the top of the leaderboard easier than other classes, but this is hardly game-breaking.

[Cavemandiary]

Without POTA that isn't possible. Also you have to be pretty damn close to make it to the entire group in 2 seconds with fade cloak. To get to that distance, chances are you're already in range of some enemies. You then also have no way of retreating, if things go wrong. 
 
AW can't tank high single-target DPS in a 1-1 because the entire class synergizes with AOE damage to sustain the shield. Remove that and especially in perilous he can get shredded. 
 
Removing PotA would force AW to play as a team rather than being able to solo. To me its the most efficient balance they could make. If they opted for another change, it would have to be very well justified to supersede such a simple one, IMO.

Yet the AW doesn´t even need POTA. Like I said, I don´t even have it. He might be more powerful WITH it, but it is nowhere near mandatory to be OP as hell.

[mission555]

imo Spirit Blade does way too much damage, 200-250% would be fine (and it can keep it's absurd damage to barrier and guard). 

 

Fade Cloak has too much damage on a too low CD. Would probably nerf its CD first then maybe lower damage to 800-900%. 

 

But the big deal: AW is too good at consistant tanking, a nice solution would be to have his barrier generation have a recharge time like 9 seconds uptime 3 seconds recharge. 

[Mindtraveller]

I don't understand the argument I keep seeing about how balance is unnecessary in a PvE game. Some of us bought this game for the MP alone. Balance in any multiplayer game is a necessity. Some people like to min/max as much as possible to beat the odds and to feel more powerful, but if you don't even have to min/max but instead could just choose an OP class, some people will do that and reduce the fun-factor for others they play with.

 

This MP is extremely teamplay oriented, if one class can just rush ahead and solo everything while the others are left to feel weak and unnecessary to the team, it is just plain bad design.

 

Winning isn't what this MP should be about, it should be about teamplay.

[Cavemandiary]

He does have a point, though. If you run ahead with AW you will almost certainly do the best, same with other classes. But if you stay with the team, pick up loot for them ect you'll find your score dramatically drops. It's easy to gimp the system in your favour, which is why your appeal to the leaderboards, which are known to be bugged, is incorrect.

The scoreboard is not one of many points, and certainly not my main point.

[ElectricFeel]

Have you even played the AW, or are you just trolling for no reason? If a 82 dps staff is "really good", then yes.

You basically said that after playing 1 match on routine you went into God Mode and could beat lvl 15-20s which for some reason I can't understand would also be running routine unti you moved up to threatening at lvl 9. And even with the worst group I have ever ran with I didn't kill so much to keep my team from getting 1\4th of the xp I received. The only way to do that is by running ahead and killing everything on your own.

Do you just want someone to tell you that your are so amazing or what I don't understand the point of your post, there are 100 posts on the forums about the Arcane Warrior already and I don't see what this one added to any of the conversations other than just bragging that you were able to get all the kills when you play AW and no one else can even compete. I have promoted every class multiple times and yeah AW is easy to play but its no where near anything you describe unless you are playing with total noobs who have no idea how to play their class or you are running ahead of your team which at that point makes your whole post invalid. Please make a video of you actually playing with your group and doing any of the things you describe in this post. I will offer you a sincere apology if you can provide it but I have played multiple AW and promoted them and they are not by any means the god mode class that denys other classes xp if they are in the group. I call Shenanigans.

[Torkelight]

Without POTA that isn't possible. Also you have to be pretty damn close to make it to the entire group in 2 seconds with fade cloak. To get to that distance, chances are you're already in range of some enemies. You then also have no way of retreating, if things go wrong. 

 

AW can't tank high single-target DPS in a 1-1 because the entire class synergizes with AOE damage to sustain the shield. Remove that and especially in perilous he can get shredded. 

 

Removing PotA would force AW to play as a team rather than being able to solo. To me its the most efficient balance they could make. If they opted for another change, it would have to be very well justified to supersede such a simple one, IMO. 

Yes, without POTA, that isnt possible no, but I'm taking into consideration that AW has POTA. I do this all the time mind to dispose of large groups, but on threatening, not on perilous. It should be possible but because of the POTA bug, once it wears off and if you havent killed everything - things might get really dicey.

And again, on threatening I dont think I have played any character that can solo large single target minions like the AW, by using spirit blade for damage and barriergeneration together with CL, it just keeps the barrier up constantly and you take no damage. Other characters dont have that luxury. I mean, legionnaire is almost invulnerable if build right, but he doesnt have that damage, and its a lot easier for the AW.

Again, perilous is a different ballgame alltogether.