17 réponses à ce sujet

[Chugster]

Am I missing something or do mage Inqs not get the big AoE attacks from mp, such as firestorm or blizzard?

One of the big joys of playing mages in DAO and DA2 were the big damage aoe attacks...I loved raining fire in DA2

[aznricepuff]

Blizzard is in the Winter tree, all the way down at the bottom. Firestorm is a rift mage focus ability.

[Lucrece]

And Blizzard sucks big time, as does most of the frost tree.

[Chugster]

I've just started a magecand I'm wondering what specialisation to pick...judging from the MP skills the Arcane Warrior (knight enchanter) seems to have great survivability, whereas the elementalist (rift mage) seems designed to melt faces...is there any reason to pick one over the other for single player?

[Nathonaws]

Knight-enchanter is overpowered at the moment. If you want to faceroll, pick that spec. Rift mage is basically the AOE spec, but it is not that great for bosses.

[Matth85]

Knight-enchanter is overpowered at the moment. If you want to faceroll, pick that spec. Rift mage is basically the AOE spec, but it is not that great for bosses.

 

Overpowered? not at all.

Boring as ****? That's about right.

 

Also:

 

Fire mine hits like a truck.

Static Cage + upgrade makes for hilarious damage.

 

The specializations are pretty simple:

 

Rift Mage - Weakness debuff, about infinite mana, Control. A force mage. Got a bit of a problem on bosses, due to them resisting weakness!

Necromancer - DoT damage. Standard. Potential, but a bit lacking in my opinion.

Knight Enchanter - Melee mage. Infinite barrier, mediocre damage. Not what I consider fun, but whatever floats your boat!

 

The majority of a mages playthrough isn't specialization-based though. You can blast through the game choosing no specialization. The damage comes from Static Cage + Energy Barrage, or Fire Mine.

[Selea]

The majority of a mages playthrough isn't specialization-based though. You can blast through the game choosing no specialization. The damage comes from Static Cage + Energy Barrage, or Fire Mine.

True, but a non specialized mage has huge problems of mana (the same problematic Necros face, in fact, even with Death Syphon, that's the only thing making the spec not shine as it could) and for this going Rift Mage if you want to nuke is almost a necessity. If you want to cast spells in succession with Flashpoint + Clean Burn + Winter Stillness the only way is to have the mana regeneration potential of a Rift Mage, elsewhere you are stuck on using staff attacks for moderate/huge lapses (depending on the build).

And in fact when Rift mages find enemies that are immune to weakened problems arise on this point, i.e. they become as non spec mages plus a little more CC, so they are stuck on staff attacks for a considerate part of the fight.

[MadDemiurg]

KE is the best dps mage as well when built properly... He has the highest mana regen (apart from rift when restorative veil doesn't bug out), lowest cd because of cheap spammable spells, 100% uptime because of invulnerability and conductive current + fade shield + chaotic focus synergy. And as many have said, most damaging spells are not the spec ones (well, WB and fade cloak are pretty nice). This is also proven by MP to some extent where AW is the best class because of best (aoe)dps/survivability ratio. Players saying that KE has weak dps have probably just taken the spec, tried spamming spirit blade for 5 min (admittedly not the most efficient dps rotation) and abandoned the class. The only thing KE misses for setting up nukes is PotA which you can get from the 2nd mage (or replaced with static cage to some extent), I admit that it can be quite boring though because you have dps, invulnerability, cc, aoe all wrapped into one package. So yeah, you can solo the game with t1 armor and t2 staff.

[Selea]

1) No, KE damage potential is moderate at best and beyond either other mage specs (far beyond for what it concerns Rift mage, apart on single enemies immune to weakened status effects), to not talk on absolute terms.

 

2) The mana regen of a KE is tied to enemies being near (so you must be in melee), the AOE is little and it is not tied to damage done (differently from Rift). There's simply no comparison. The mana regen of a KE is on par to the one of a Necro with Winter Stillness + Death Syphon on the whole.

 

3) The fact that you need to stand near melee to get a little more mana regen means that you cannot use nuking as efficiently as the other specs because enemies WILL aggro on you and then you will need to use Spirit Blade that sucks for damage. If you don't stand in melee (or use something like Fade Step to go outside of range when attacked to continue nuking as before instead than relying on SB) then the mana regen is the same as a non-specced mage, hence not enough to use spells one after another efficiently.

 

4) The combos and the ability to use those is tied completely on mana regen. If you haven't enough then you cannot combo properly. So, given the points above, KE is clearly much lower on damage potential than Rift and even Necro.

[MadDemiurg]

You haven't played KE enough clearly. I've tried all 3 specs extensively.

 

As KE you do indeed need to be close to enemies for mana regen, so you do get aggro but you really do not care since you can tank any damage and you dodge attacks that can knock you down with fade cloak (1000% aoe spirit damage included). I'd say that you WANT to get aggro so that you draw damage away from your party and catch more enemies in fade cloak aoe,

 

Combos are nice for damage (and RM is better than KE at combos admittedly because of shock + weakness + eldrich detonator combo) but fire mine is still the most damaging ability, 2x fire mines through flashpoint at max barrier end any encounter.

 

Since KE gets tons of barrier for chaotic focus he can fire mine better than anyone else. RM with restorative veil also gets 0 benefit from conductive current while KE can utilize it efficiently. Essentially fire mine at low mana and full barrier has like 265% damage of normal fire mine.

 

Even SB is not that bad with PotA and/or Static Cage. If you clump 3-4 enemies in it it's 900-1200% damage per cast since it's aoe. Plus, it's one of the few abilities that benefit from runes and it multiplies rune damage. I've seen +50 rune crit for 2k alone (not counting the actual SB damage, which is another 4k). SB is a big improvement over auto attack, which costs very little and helps your cooldowns a lot. It's often just a filler for when your more damaging skills are on cd though.

 

Really, AW wouldn't be at the top in mp constantly if KE was bad. Now, AW is better than SP KE actually, because PotA. But since you can get that from your party...

[Pi2r Epsilon]

Really, AW wouldn't be at the top in mp constantly if KE was bad. Now, AW is better than SP KE actually, because PotA. But since you can get that from your party...

So what you are really saying is that Knight-Enchanter + Rift Mage is a good combination. I don't think anybody could disagree with that.

 

Personally I'd say that it is an awesome combination regardless of whether you primarily control the Rift Mage for nuking purposes with an AI controlled KE set up to take care of group defenses or you primarily control the KE for Jedi-imitation with an AI controlled RM set up to take care of group defenses.

[TristynTrine]

I find magic incredibly dull in this game. We have some primal spells, and a barrier tree... Why no choices... Also, only spell I genuinly like is Earth Fist, Cause it looks like you're knocking them out LOL Taking my anger out with earth fists of death. ^^

[MadDemiurg]

So what you are really saying is that Knight-Enchanter + Rift Mage is a good combination. I don't think anybody could disagree with that.

 

Personally I'd say that it is an awesome combination regardless of whether you primarily control the Rift Mage for nuking purposes with an AI controlled KE set up to take care of group defenses or you primarily control the KE for Jedi-imitation with an AI controlled RM set up to take care of group defenses.

Well, the combo is pretty powerful indeed, I was just making a point that KE damage is actually quite good. I've played this setup (KE inq + Solas) and KE ends up doing most of the damage, Rift sets up aoe opportunities with pull and does general CC. Not to say Rift is bad, it is the best CC spec in the game and it also can do nice damage with combos, but I find it below KE damage wise. I usually control all my characters (use almost no tactics and most of abilities manually, it is not needed but more fun for me this way) so doesn't matter who the main is or whom I control. I also gear all the chars equally well.

 

 

I find magic incredibly dull in this game. We have some primal spells, and a barrier tree... Why no choices... Also, only spell I genuinly like is Earth Fist, Cause it looks like you're knocking them out LOL Taking my anger out with earth fists of death. ^^

 

It definitely feels like a huge step back from DA:O. Mages are now dumbed down to the level of 2 other classes. Yay for equality I guess.

[Selea]

You haven't played KE enough clearly. I've tried all 3 specs extensively.

 

I played all three mage specs and the only reason KE stands in comparison for the others by patch 2 is the defense (Fade Shield) and surely not the offense.

 

As KE you do indeed need to be close to enemies for mana regen, so you do get aggro but you really do not care since you can tank any damage and you dodge attacks that can knock you down with fade cloak (1000% aoe spirit damage included). I'd say that you WANT to get aggro so that you draw damage away from your party and catch more enemies in fade cloak aoe,

 

When you are aggroed by more than one enemy you HAVE to keep using short time cast spells to keep your barrier up on nightmare. You cannot skip on spamming SB on melee, there's no way. Maybe on hard or lower, not on nightmare. Fire mine has 3 seconds before it fires and in 3 seconds in nightmare (if you wait for it) you are dead even with a KE. When you have two or three enemies punching you in nightmare you have to use SB to stay alive and your offense goes to hell. Sure, you can use Fade Cloak once in a while, but it surely isn't a burst skill with low CD.
 

Combos are nice for damage (and RM is better than KE at combos admittedly because of shock + weakness + eldrich detonator combo) but fire mine is still the most damaging ability, 2x fire mines through flashpoint at max barrier end any encounter.

 

No, the most damaging combo is by far Static Cage + Fire Mine + Barrage. Simply put you don't have enough mana regen with a KE to do it continuously, nor you could because you must have lapses into which you use SB to both stay alive and lower the CDs (firing other spells to do the same is much less productive). 

With a KE you don't have enough mana regen to spam large spells as a Rift can (nor you can have the chance for enemies hitting on you and lowering the barrier) and so the best option is to use SB to lower CDs of the spells you want to use and in the meantime stay alive. In the end it is SB spam for a little, two or three damage spells, SB spam again. This is the gameplay of a KE on nightmare to optimize the build.
 

Since KE gets tons of barrier for chaotic focus he can fire mine better than anyone else. RM with restorative veil also gets 0 benefit from conductive current while KE can utilize it efficiently. Essentially fire mine at low mana and full barrier has like 265% damage of normal fire mine.

 

Again, fire mine x 2 is not the most damaging combo. Btw just the fact that you mention conductive current is because you actually know that KE has problems with mana with large costing spells just for the points I mentioned.

All in all it seems to me you are a little contradicting yourself both in the point above and here.
 

Even SB is not that bad with PotA and/or Static Cage. If you clump 3-4 enemies in it it's 900-1200% damage per cast since it's aoe.

 

 

Since patch 2 SB doesn't combo anymore. Just for this damage potential of KE got much lower now. Before it wasn't bad just because you could (as you say) combo with SB hence you could actually do pretty good damage along other spells when on melee.

[MadDemiurg]

I played all three mage specs and the only reason KE stands in comparison for the others by patch 2 is the defense (Fade Shield) and surely not the offense.

 

When you are aggroed by more than one enemy you HAVE to keep using short time cast spells to keep your barrier up on nightmare. You cannot skip on spamming SB on melee, there's no way. Maybe on hard or lower, not on nightmare. Fire mine has 3 seconds before it fires and in 3 seconds in nightmare (if you wait for it) you are dead even with a KE. When you have two or three enemies punching you in nightmare you have to use SB to stay alive and your offense goes to hell. Sure, you can use Fade Cloak once in a while, but it surely isn't a burst skill with low CD.
 

No, the most damaging combo is by far Static Cage + Fire Mine + Barrage. Simply put you don't have enough mana regen with a KE to do it continuously, nor you could because you must have lapses into which you use SB to both stay alive and lower the CDs (firing other spells to do the same is much less productive). 

With a KE you don't have enough mana regen to spam large spells as a Rift can (nor you can have the chance for enemies hitting on you and lowering the barrier) and so the best option is to use SB to lower CDs of the spells you want to use and in the meantime stay alive. In the end it is SB spam for a little, two or three damage spells, SB spam again. This is the gameplay of a KE on nightmare to optimize the build.
 

Again, fire mine x 2 is not the most damaging combo. Btw just the fact that you mention conductive current is because you actually know that KE has problems with mana with large costing spells just for the points I mentioned.

All in all it seems to me you are a little contradicting yourself both in the point above and here.
 

 

Since patch 2 SB doesn't combo anymore. Just for this damage potential of KE got much lower now. Before it wasn't bad just because you could (as you say) combo with SB hence you could actually do pretty good damage along other spells when on melee.

Yeah, yo do cast SB in melee but keeping up your barrier is just a side effect. You also reduce the cooldowns of your main nukes this way. It beats auto attacking any day.

 

Fully chaotic focused fire mine is actually much more damaging than static cage + barrage so 2x fire mines > fire mine + barrage + cage unless we're talking hidden blades mastercrafts which is OP lategame crafting and generally not needed,

 

KE indeed does not have unlimited mana and I never mentioned that. RM does (when restorative veil actually works), but KE has enough mana to spam spells like fire mine, immolate, SB and fade cloak for instance while having lower cooldowns due to SB (RM needs a rotation of several very low cd spells to keep up the same casting rate and even then not quite, so clean burn does not benefit him as much). All this while benefiting from conductive current. KE has enough mana to spam fire mine, cloak and SB by(very short) cooldown. I often mix in spells like barrier or static cage to actually keep mana low enough for max conductive current bonus.

 

The reason you might have had issues with mana on KE is because of weird rejuvenating barrier behavior. Initially I took it on my 2nd mage so that KE could avoid the aggro reduction skill (it is actually bad for KE). But it didn't work. So I ended up taking it with KE which solved most of my mana issues.

 

Fade cloak is a pretty nice burst skill actually, 12s cd is not much and when paired with clean burn its more like 6s or even less. 1000% spirit aoe at 20 mana cost is much much better than said barrage again. And it even has cc (knockdown) attached.

 

I never used SB for combos much tbh, although the change was pretty weird. 900-1200% damage from aoe I mentioned is just from hitting clumped up enemies, SB hits everyone in front of you.

 

As I mentioned before, I played with KE main and Solas and KE was doing more damage for the most part of the game, I did control all chars equally well and crafted gear for everyone, so these 2 things can't be the reason. Solas did become quite broken when I gave him a +4 hidden blade hits armor and +5 hidden blade hits staff,but that's another story and one of the things in the game that imo need fixing.

[konfeta]

(RM needs a rotation of several very low cd spells to keep up the same casting rate and even then not quite, so clean burn does not benefit him as much)

You are optimizing your RM very, very wrongly if you rely on Clean Burn to keep your cooldowns low. Rift Mage is the machine gun build of this game due to Flashpoint.

[MadDemiurg]

Many people are saying that Flashpoint has no cd but it actually has it for me for the most part. Dunno why the difference. So double spell every 10 seconds is nice but doesn't eliminate the need of clean burn. If it worked the same for me maybe my assessment would be different. (Unlimited EB with HB could potentially outdps even a rogue on single target). Anyway this looks like a bug that should be fixed at some point.

[Sevitan7]

Flashpoint was had no internal cooldown before the patch for sure. Perhaps they ninja fixed it. They did the same with Turn the Blade and Turn the Bolt I believe, so it wouldn't surprise me.