371 réponses à ce sujet

[GavrielKay]

I am finding some items in loot and shops that are better than current gear, so this might be dependent of Lvl and path chosen. In my case, I was lucky to have such good finds when I chose to scrap my Berserk effect gear.

What gear?  What level are you and what crafting supplies do you have available?  I found that once I had visited Emprise du Lion and got some tier 3 metals and leathers, that I just couldn't find loot to keep up.  I did play a somewhat completionist run, doing almost everything available before advancing the main story at each bottleneck.  I guess the game just isn't set up to reward that behavior with cool stuff.

[berrieh]

Therein lies the problem.  The game was marketed as an RPG and a continuance of the Dragon Age franchise but is more of a single player MMORPG. 

 

The point was grammar and punctuation, just curious as to where you were from. 

 

What is the difference between a single-player MMORPG (doesn't exist) and an RPG? If you take the Massive Multiplayer Online out of an MMORPG, it's an RPG. And many early MMORPGs reflected that better than some MMOs today, sure, but I don't really understand what a singleplayer MMORPG would even be. (The only MMORPG I've ever played is FF14 btw. Like ever. This summer. It was fun, but can't keep it up. Playing with so many other people just gets exhausting for an introvert like me after working all day at an extroverted job. I don't want to be on chat for more than the occasional MP round of something. But the story in FF14 was basically as good and deep as the story in most FF games, so I get why it's an RPG but also why it's an MMORPG because of all those other folks running around and asking me to skip long cut scenes in dungeons and stuff.) MMORPGs got fetch quests and all these elements people complain about from RPGs.

 

I just don't get the fuss. 

 

And I love the RPG genre. Name a major RPG from 1992 on and I've probably played it - PC or console, Western or JRPG, and plenty of minor or obscure ones too. I play Pathfinder, D&D, and so forth too. RPGs are my jam. The genre is so expansive though. What makes a game an RPG? It's really just character progression. Honestly. There are other elements - most are story-driven, for instance - but you can't lock down the exact hows and whats so easily. Choices? Unnecessary. Most RPGs don't give you choices - though DA:I does. Selecting race, gender, and character design? Sometimes an option - other times no. 

 

This whole "It's more MMORPG is just dumb." It's not. You don't play with other people; you tell your own story, control the economy, etc. And all these so-called MMO quests are RPG quests anyway. MMORPGs got most of their ideas from oldschool RPGs anyway. Hardly anything DAI does that people object to can't be seen in another RPG somewhere. 

 

I get that open-world isn't everyone's thing. The thing I love about DAI, as a usually completionist player, is that it frees me from my desire to be a completionist because I feel it has so much replayability in the way it is designed. I am a completionist, but that has always felt like a burden. Have to get it done in one playthrough because it's not like I'll play again soon - one and done, I've seen the story and will need awhile before I want to replay. (Even in something like Skyrim, where you can keep leveling up endlessly now and earning Perks; why start over? Why not try to do it all on one character? Uh....it gets so frustrating and ridiculous. How can I be the head of every major faction? It feels silly. DAI doesn't have those problems.) But I guess if one still wanted to be a completionist, the game could feel frustrating. It's the first RPG where I felt free of that need very early on in my first playthrough. 

[Elhanan]

What gear?  What level are you and what crafting supplies do you have available?  I found that once I had visited Emprise du Lion and got some tier 3 metals and leathers, that I just couldn't find loot to keep up.  I did play a somewhat completionist run, doing almost everything available before advancing the main story at each bottleneck.  I guess the game just isn't set up to reward that behavior with cool stuff.

I had just received my first Tier 3 longbow schematic and crafted a Berserker bow, and Cassandra had both axe and shield with the same effect. When I discovered the problems involved, I made another longbow for myself, and soon discovered other suitable arms for my her; both in loot drops and discovered treasures. Then when I finally made my way to the Hissing wastes, I found a helm that was twice as good as my own in a shop. So there are some good finds, or at least my luck was improved.

Even now at 22nd Lvl, I keep finding schematics for myself, and better gear for my Companions in the occasional drop. While true that the Jumping puzzles are generally not worth the extra time, the 'Astra-scopes' were quite helpful. That said, I have only purchased a few things at shops; waiting to focus on final gear for the conclusion and Dragons.

[Maverick827]

What is the difference between a single-player MMORPG (doesn't exist) and an RPG?

 

MMORPGs are designed in such a way to keep you playing as long as possible, because most of them (at least initially) have a subscription model.  Actually, that doesn't even matter, because the grindiest of the bunch are Eastern MMOs, where players mostly pay by the hour.  Regardless of the pay model, in the world of MMOs, time = money.

 

To keep you playing longer, artificial, arbitrary, and often tedious time gates are put into place.

 

A single player MMORPG, I would then guess, is a single player game with tedious time gates for some reason.  It follows the MMO model, but without the need to.

[DreamwareStudio]

Just wanted to send a thanks to everyone who participated in this thread. You've saved me some money and a lot of frustration. I was on the fence regarding whether to purchase DA:I. I no longer wonder whether I should buy it now or wait until the game goes on sale. I can safely say that this game is not for me. Guess I'm done with the DA franchise after all.

[Elhanan]

Just wanted to send a thanks to everyone who participated in this thread. You've saved me some money and a lot of frustration. I was on the fence regarding whether to purchase DA:I. I no longer wonder whether I should buy it now or wait until the game goes on sale. I can safely say that this game is not for me. Guess I'm done with the DA franchise after all.

Sad to see someone go because of the opinions of others. Personally, am still having fun after 250-300 hrs on first Inquisitor and completing MQ. While DAO remains the crowning jewel in the series for me, this is a wonderful game full of stories.

Now for my male Human Mage - Paragon campaign.

[DreamwareStudio]

Sad to see someone go because of the opinions of others. Personally, am still having fun after 250-300 hrs on first Inquisitor and completing MQ. While DAO remains the crowning jewel in the series for me, this is a wonderful game full of stories.

Now for my male Human Mage - Paragon campaign.

 

I'm not wasting my money or time and I know from what I've read here in addition to the research I've done that DA:I would be a waste of both. Nothing about the game really grabs my imagination and there are things that would seriously get under my skin. Too easy, too monotonous, weak story-line, uninteresting NPCs, decisions that have little to no impact, generic settings, etc. After DA 2 and ME 3 I do not jump into EA waters without first fully investigating the tide and seeing if the surf is all that it is marketed to be.

 

This pretty much put the final nail in the coffin of my indecision:

 

http://killscreendai...n-all-business/

[Blue_Shayde]

I think my biggest issue when it comes to side quests is the lack of a payoff. Most of the time, these side quests only give power. And there's more power in the game then what you can use. So you end up with leftover power you have nothing to spend it on.

 

Meanwhile, getting Inquisition perks and money is harder. If the side quests would reward you with gear, money, or perks...they would feel more rewarding. I know after a while, I just stopped caring about requisition quests. I already have to much power, and they don't actually visibly do anything to strengthen the Inquisition. They are just filler content. The quests also lack in story or even involvement in the world. The side quests in DA2 and DAO had character, backstory, and taught you a little about the world of DA. DAI's quests don't. I've cleared five maps in this game already, and I have better memory of side quests I did in DAO and DA2 then in DAI.

 

I also agree about the lack of any real drive to complete the main story outside of wanting content that actually has depth to it. And really, depth is all I ask for. When I go out of the way to get a lady her asthma medicine, it would be nice to see her recover, instead of continuing to lay dead-like on her bed for the rest of the game. When I save Crestwood and reveal the real killer, would have been nice to confront him myself instead of having to chase him on the war table. If I play a frickin Qunari mage, would be nice if Iron Bull would acknowledge that I'm a mage instead of just focusing on the Tal'vashoth thing. Its small tidbits like this that are missing and leave the game feeling empty.

 

Its a personal opinion though, of course. Everyone enjoys games for different reasons.

 

This pretty much put the final nail in the coffin of my indecision:

 

http://killscreendai...n-all-business/

 

Yeah, that reviewer puts my issues with the game into perfect words in that article. Everything he says is how I've felt about DAI.

 

At the end, DAI is good. But its forgettable. And I find myself wanting to turn it off and turn on DA2 or DAO when I'm playing it. And a game shouldn't make you want to turn it off and play something else when you are supposed to be 'immersed' in it.

[Elhanan]

I'm not wasting my money or time and I know from what I've read here in addition to the research I've done that DA:I would be a waste of both. Nothing about the game really grabs my imagination and there are things that would seriously get under my skin. Too easy, too monotonous, weak story-line, uninteresting NPCs, decisions that have little to no impact, generic settings, etc. After DA 2 and ME 3 I do not jump into EA waters without first fully investigating the tide and seeing if the surf is all that it is marketed to be.
 
This pretty much put the final nail in the coffin of my indecision:
 
http://killscreendai...n-all-business/

"Believe what you will. Shut one's eyes tight, or open one's arms wide; either way, one's a fool."

Personally, I am enjoying the game, and it has already made my investment worth my time. I received the physical copy, which also gave me time to read early reviews, and from those I learned to re-map the control Keys and re-train on the new Tac-Cam before actual play. My result was far less frustration than most of those complaining.

But it sounds like your mind is pre-made; your choice, but I am quite happy to have purchased the game.

DAO > DAI > DA2, and have enjoyed all of them.

[Element Zero]

I feel the same way, OP. I've always played DA for the story, merely tolerating gameplay mechanics that I dislike. In an "open world" game of this size, that is nearly impossible. For many, many hours, all you have is the gameplay. The story segments were extremely spread out, and the game was wearing on me in the final 20 hours. I was eager for it to end, despite great revelations in lore and well written characters.

There is a lot this game did well. I don't think there was enough story to fill those huge vistas, though. I'd prefer more story and less real estate. Either way, this game was a bit of an eye-opener for me. I realized just how much I actually hate the mechanics of this series. Top notch writing had disguised it through two games of 25-40 hours duration. It was not enough this time. I likely won't buy future installments, as much as I hate that I feel that way. I'll keep up, best as I am able, through the novels and wikis.

[Wulfsten]

I'm glad you are enjoying the game.  I just gave my opinions based on my style of gameplay coupled with things that I don't enjoy about it.  There are different sorts of gamers and there were expectations set by marketing which didn't pan out so well for me and others like me who were expecting this to be a continuation of the DA series that for us it isn't really other than lip service to DAO and DAII.

 

Just an opinion.  It's pretty though.

 

Sorry you didn't enjoy it. Personally, I think it's by a long, long way the best DA game and incidentally the best RPG Bioware has ever made (and I was a huge BG2 fan). I'm glad it's received critical acclaim and seems to be doing well financially.

 

I don't really understand why you think this is "lip service to DAO and DA2". The whole game is shot through with wonderful references, both in story and in gameplay, to the previous Dragon Age games, but also to the Baldur's Gate and NWN series. I'm not sure what expectations you had, but they were probably fairly unrealistic. Games need to evolve and innovate. In terms of gameplay and lore, all the innovations worked for me, and if they didn't for you, that's too bad.

 

You're making it sound like you were misled, which is pretty rich, to be honest. Bioware was quite transparent about how the game would play in the promotion of it.

[Wulfsten]

This is all true, but it was also true in Origins. It was also true in Baldur's Gate and pretty much every other CRPG ever. There are loads of side quests (generally repetitive in nature and limited in breadth) that you can do that are completely tangential to the main quest. The core storyline constitutes a small part of the overall play time. We are informed that our enemy is on the move and time is of the essence if we want to thwart his diabolical plans, but nothing ever happens due to our inaction or deciding to take time to solve the problems of everyone we run into, however incidental they are to our quest and however illogical it would be for us to waste precious time doing so. All of these tropes have been well-established for a long time, and are present as much or moreso in the games that we hold up as shining examples of how great things used to be.

 

Inasmuch as there is a difference between Inquisition and earlier games, I think it boils down to two things. First, Inquisition itself makes the repetitive and tangential nature of its sidequests plainly obvious due to the way it is constructed and presented. (A simple example: in DAO, most of the repetitive optional side quests were hidden on job boards where you didn't see them if you didn't go looking; in DAI they are all marked on your map, making them hard to ignore. Another is the obvious way in which sidequests are needed to generate the power points required to unlock the next story segment, making their role as speed bumps hard to ignore.) Other games have done a better job of concealing the repetitive nature of the gameplay, irrelevance of much of the content, and reactive nature of the world (meaning the world doesn't do anything except in response to you manipulating it). This is a legitimate weakness in Inquisition: the designers could have done better.

 

Second, as we play more and more of these games, we get better at deconstructing the games: recognizing how they are put together and how they attempt to make us feel as though we are participating in an epic and dynamic story even as we engage in simple, repetitive tasks with fixed outcomes. At the same time, we expect more from current games than we did from their predecessors. So we're left in a position where our expectations keep increasing while at the same time we are increasingly unable to avoid seeing through the illusions that disguise the underlying guts and mechanics. I don't think there's much that the designers could do to avert this, apart from turning out a masterpiece of creative genius, but that sort of thing can't be done on command, no matter the budget or schedule.

 

That said, I think there have been and continue to be improvements in game design, depth and complexity. Not every game is better than its predecessors, but we've come a long, long way from, say, Ultima IV: a game that totally blew me away for its depth and richness when it was released in 1985. I don't think I'll ever be as immersed in another CRPG as I was when I first played it, but I'd reject out of hand any new game with that kind of gameplay, even if I might replay and even enjoy Ultima IV itself for nostalgic reasons.

 

I also want to point out that there is nothing wrong with repetitive gameplay that is convincingly disguised so as to present the illusion of something more complex. CRPGs are illusions to begin with; constructing good illusions is the hallmark of a good designer. Unfortunately, being able to see through illusions is one of the involuntary powers of the experienced gamer.

 

I disagree. You're talking about "repetitive gameplay", but I'm not sure what you really mean. If it's the requisitions, which are most similar to Skyrim's radial quests, then yes, these are repetitive and meaningless to the main story. But they're a tiny part of the game.

 

What I suspect you're referring to is "side quests", e.g. finding the elf's wedding ring, etc. You say that these should be "hidden better" and "disguised", but for most players, this is the exact content they're seeking and enjoying. Ultimately, all games are very repetitive. They come up with one combat system, and possibly one traversal system, and you do it again and again until the game is complete. The gameplay experience of finishing the main quest in DA:I is identical to the gameplay experience of doing one side quest. And it's been like that in pretty much every RPG ever made, barring some exceptions.

 

You don't need to "disguise" side quests or hide them away as if you're ashamed of them. You want people to find and enjoy them. And if they're well-written, as I think they are in DA:I, then the presence of copious side quests is a feature, not a bug. You seem to prefer DA:O's system where you get random assassination contracts from a notice board, as opposed to finding out about problems you can help with organically - I find this bizarre. I think most people would prefer the immersion of actually seeing and talking to the people you're helping, even if it meant occasionally seeing exclamation mark symbols on the map. I'm not sure why sidequests offend you as much as they do. 

[DreamwareStudio]

"Believe what you will. Shut one's eyes tight, or open one's arms wide; either way, one's a fool."

Personally, I am enjoying the game, and it has already made my investment worth my time. I received the physical copy, which also gave me time to read early reviews, and from those I learned to re-map the control Keys and re-train on the new Tac-Cam before actual play. My result was far less frustration than most of those complaining.

But it sounds like your mind is pre-made; your choice, but I am quite happy to have purchased the game.

DAO > DAI > DA2, and have enjoyed all of them.

 

My mind was hardly made up already about DA:I. In fact, when I saw the trailer, I thought okay it's worth checking out, but the more investigating I did, the less sure I became of buying it. The opposite would have ideally happened. Instead, I came to doubt the game's quality and EA's understanding of what ought to go into an cRPG. What you must understand is that I am highly discerning when it comes to gaming, ESPECIALLY when it comes to cRPGs. Long gone are the days when I would gladly spend money on an average game. There are too many good games out there, a few of them truly great, and I don't have a lot of free-time.

[madmantheonly1]

I have made a similar post in another thread on this forum a few weeks back with very very similar feelings that I had towards this game. It is amazing how much there are 2 types of people judging this game either very good or very bad (well, let's say "not so good"). 

 

One is the "story people" and the other is the "gameplay people".

 

Story people (like myself) are largely and mostly interested in a good story, and merely tolerate, or "ok with" the gameplay that is outside of that story. (Gamplay _during_ story quests is ok, that's part of the game). For us, anything that's outside of the story, meaning it has no effect on the story whatsoever, is just busy work, and when we complain that the content is not enough, in which we get the answer from the "gameplay people" that they dont understand why we say that, there is like 100+ hours of content (like planting banners and making camps) - but for us this is not content, like if I write a game where there is a map with 5 random points where you have to go and pick something up then hand it in to a random 6th point on the map, and when that happens there are another 5 random point generated on the map with the 6th random point as well and this in an infinite loop would or could be considered endless content. Apparently that would be a game with unlimited/infinite "content"?

 

Now the other camp is the "gameplay people", they usually like to be "completionists" who want to explore areas, and find elven camps and check out caves, because they find enjoyment in it. They will never understand why we say there is not enough content, because there are like another 39 caves to explore which they havent done yet, but they dont really need a story for that, do they? Or at least I can say they are much less invested in the story, because apparently planting banners they consider more fun then go and do the next story quest (which the game forces you to grind power for, completely breaking immersion for me), otherwise they would just follow up to the next quest like us story people do.

 

All in all, it seems like there are 2 different type of games here mashed up in a tolerable, but forced way, one is a story driven action adventure challenge (more single player rpg) and an mmo style action farming open world game. 

So far bioware has been the first type, and this game tried to open the gates toward the second type, which is probably more popular, but doesnt sit well with "story people", however they are the minority, and profits are more important.

[Elhanan]

My mind was hardly made up already about DA:I. In fact, when I saw the trailer, I thought okay it's worth checking out, but the more investigating I did, the less sure I became of buying it. The opposite would have ideally happened. Instead, I came to doubt the game's quality and EA's understanding of what ought to go into an cRPG. What you must understand is that I am highly discerning when it comes to gaming, ESPECIALLY when it comes to cRPGs. Long gone are the days when I would gladly spend money on an average game. There are too many good games out there, a few of them truly great, and I don't have a lot of free-time.

So the concern about EA was nothing special?

I have been playing RPG's and cRPG's for quite a while, and am not really known for adapting well to change; most people are not, I believe. And I tend to stick to RPG's as a rule, XCOM being one of the few other genre titles I have played of this new century. So it was a bit of a surprise that I enjoyed playing SWTOR solo, as I was able to focus on the stories; not the masses playing in the same sandbox. For myself, DAI has mixed the best parts of SWTOR and the DA series, and has allowed me to explore and tactically control the various terrains.

I am also not technically minded, and am now disabled, so having good controls in a PC game is rather essential, as I am unlikely to ever play well on a console. DA2 was the game I used first as rehab following my stroke in 2011, then SWTOR, ME series, and Skyrim. And I am telling you that the PC controls for DAI are fine for me; simply re-mapped the control keys, chose settings that aided RP and personal taste (eg; Effect Quality - Low; restricts the shiny portion of FX, and also boosts FPS) prior to play, and have been having a grand time. One does not play 250-300+ hrs on a single character with such RL restrictions w/o something being made correctly.

And while DAI is not perfect for me (eg; Alchemy is rather essential, and I am not a fan of picking flowers with my Dwarf), the story and characters make such personal issues worthwhile. Maybe it helped watching Skyrim LP's with sim characters; uncertain. Also prefer to have Attributes under Player control, but these have been given a lesser role to the effects chosen that now supply them. Etc.

Currently, the decision has been made to pass on the game. This is your call, but I am passing along this info so that when DAI becomes less of an investment for risk, you may then try it yourself. I simply do not have, or have not experienced the kind of complaints that have been posted since release; have been too busy actually playing the game.

[Maverick827]

I planned on finishing my current play through so I can start again and take specific note of the side quests and compare them to Origin's side quests (e.g., how many times does your character get to make a meaningful choice?).

I'm not even sure if I can finish this playthrough in the first place, though, and it would take a lot of specific mods for me to want to start a second.

Good for everyone who enjoys the game, but this might be the first BioWare game I don't complete.

[Elhanan]

I planned on finishing my current play through so I can start again and take specific note of the side quests and compare them to Origin's side quests (e.g., how many times does your character get to make a meaningful choice?).

I'm not even sure if I can finish this playthrough in the first place, though, and it would take a lot of specific mods for me to want to start a second.

Good for everyone who enjoys the game, but this might be the first BioWare game I don't complete.

For me, it is the BG series and Jade Empire; somewhat based on older mechanics and graphics, but other games have kept me entertained.

[dlux]

Good for everyone who enjoys the game, but this might be the first BioWare game I don't complete.

Same. I have finished every Bioware RPG, some even multiple times. 

 

I played DA:I for about 10 hours and already had enough. I will never touch it again.

[saladinbob]

I've tried a second playthrough as a Mage but the class is so boring and the game so bereft of meaningful choices that I just can't do it. I'm not interested in using a console controller, silly outfits that bear no relation to the world setting, nor am I interested in action for action's sake. I'm interested in immersion, in depth, in meaningful consequences to my actions, to a controls system built for my platform and for deeper, more complex decision making when it comes to building my character. Time to take this off my HDD and put Origins back on. You reap what you sow, Bioware.

[DreamwareStudio]

I have made a similar post in another thread on this forum a few weeks back with very very similar feelings that I had towards this game. It is amazing how much there are 2 types of people judging this game either very good or very bad (well, let's say "not so good"). 

 

One is the "story people" and the other is the "gameplay people".

 

Some of us are equal parts story and game-play. I think this is the camp most shorted in a game that mishmashes ideas and is poorly executed because in the end, rather than got enough of either, they truly get neither.

[Elhanan]

Some of us are equal parts story and game-play. I think this is the camp most shorted in a game that mishmashes ideas and is poorly executed because in the end, rather than got enough of either, they truly get neither.

Except that you have not played it, so the shortcomings are based on some other's experiences; seemingly the bad ones over those that have other experiences.

And I get it; stayed away from ME3 for a long time because of info gleaned from reviews. But once I was able to get solid intel and tips from trusted sources, I consider it to be a great title; much better than ME2 for me.

Personally am enjoying the game even if it does not have some favored RPG elements. And one does not require a controller to play; have all my time on a KB&M, and simple ones at that. And my second session with a mage seems to offer more variety than my archer, so things are improving for me; not lessening due to familiarity.