371 réponses à ce sujet

[berrieh]

MMORPGs are designed in such a way to keep you playing as long as possible, because most of them (at least initially) have a subscription model.  Actually, that doesn't even matter, because the grindiest of the bunch are Eastern MMOs, where players mostly pay by the hour.  Regardless of the pay model, in the world of MMOs, time = money.

 

To keep you playing longer, artificial, arbitrary, and often tedious time gates are put into place.

 

A single player MMORPG, I would then guess, is a single player game with tedious time gates for some reason.  It follows the MMO model, but without the need to.

 

I think DAI has less artificial, tedious time gates in it than previous games. There is lots of stuff to do but no reason I have to do it all in one playthrough. I can have a shorter playthrough than any other DA game, and choose from a variety of ways to complete my objectives (gain Power to unlock).

 

I don't see it as trying to create a greater time sink - I actually see it as taking a lot of the needless grinding away in favor of giving choices. 

[DreamwareStudio]

Except that you have not played it, so the shortcomings are based on some other's experiences; seemingly the bad ones over those that have other experiences.

And I get it; stayed away from ME3 for a long time because of info gleaned from reviews. But once I was able to get solid intel and tips from trusted sources, I consider it to be a great title; much better than ME2 for me.

Personally am enjoying the game even if it does not have some favored RPG elements. And one does not require a controller to play; have all my time on a KB&M, and simple ones at that. And my second session with a mage seems to offer more variety than my archer, so things are improving for me; not lessening due to familiarity.

 

I see no point in playing the game given I have no excitement over it. After seeing the trailer and thinking DA:I is possibly something I might like to play, I read trusted and unfamiliar sources, the good and the bad, even the hyperbole, and the more I investigated, the more my interest waned. I am on this forum now to learn the differences between this game and those previous due to some morbid curiosity of gleaning EA's intent with the DA series.

[Elhanan]

I see no point in playing the game given I have no excitement over it. After seeing the trailer and thinking DA:I is possibly something I might like to play, I read trusted and unfamiliar sources, the good and the bad, even the hyperbole, and the more I investigated, the more my interest waned. I am on this forum now to learn the differences between this game and those previous due to some morbid curiosity of gleaning EA's intent with the DA series.

Except that positive feedback appears to be dismissed, while negative criticism seems acceptable. Even your topics appear to come a prejudged attitude, though that may be my own perception.

Q: What specifically are the elements to which you object?

Mechanically, I solved my issues by re-mapping controls, and almost anyone likely has better co-ordination than myself, so this can be managed. Some complain over minor quests; still better than finding Torn Pants and scarves for profit; even the sling bullets and quartz crystals from DAO were more annoying. Most are optional, so I choose the ones that fit that character. Etc.

Game seems solid to me, and don't get the wave of negativity that seems so vocal. But then, we who enjoy the game are still playing.

[DreamwareStudio]

Except that positive feedback appears to be dismissed, while negative criticism seems acceptable. Even your topics appear to come a prejudged attitude, though that may be my own perception.

Q: What specifically are the elements to which you object?

Mechanically, I solved my issues by re-mapping controls, and almost anyone likely has better co-ordination than myself, so this can be managed. Some complain over minor quests; still better than finding Torn Pants and scarves for profit; even the sling bullets and quartz crystals from DAO were more annoying. Most are optional, so I choose the ones that fit that character. Etc.

Game seems solid to me, and don't get the wave of negativity that seems so vocal. But then, we who enjoy the game are still playing.

 

Positive elements from the trailer were initially what interested me. I certainly didn't ignore the positives in my subsequent research. It's simply that the negative out-weighed the positive for me. My main gripe with what I've found is the lack of role-playing (choices which matter) and a shallow main story. There are others (many) but rather than type them here, I'll reference a review that fairly summarizes the majority of issues I have with DA:I.

 

http://killscreendai...n-all-business/

 

That wasn't the only place I discovered what I would dislike; just provides the best summary.

[Elhanan]

Positive elements from the trailer were initially what interested me. I certainly didn't ignore the positives in my subsequent research. It's simply that the negative out-weighed the positive for me. My main gripe with what I've found is the lack of role-playing (choices which matter) and a shallow main story. There are others (many) but rather than type them here, I'll reference a review that fairly summarizes the majority of issues I have with DA:I.
 
http://killscreendai...n-all-business/
 
That wasn't the only place I discovered what I would dislike; just provides the best summary.

This was posted earlier; cannot get past the profane laden entries to see what exactly is the point.

Characters lacking? Cole is my personal fave of the game, and am also endeared to the Solas vs Vivienne banter. I likely will not hear from iron Bull or Blackwall also due to profanity, but all the Mages are terrific, IMO.

Story? This was well revealed over the past years of development that DAI is the culmination of both prior game themes, and it delivers. Step into a Civil War of Templars vs Mages, and both sides have extremists. It is what I hoped and expected to see; have no idea what else was sought.

Think this author needs more fiber, and should remember that RP is from within; not delivered like a pizza.

[Owlbear]

I disagree. You're talking about "repetitive gameplay", but I'm not sure what you really mean. If it's the requisitions, which are most similar to Skyrim's radial quests, then yes, these are repetitive and meaningless to the main story. But they're a tiny part of the game.

 

What I suspect you're referring to is "side quests", e.g. finding the elf's wedding ring, etc. You say that these should be "hidden better" and "disguised", but for most players, this is the exact content they're seeking and enjoying. Ultimately, all games are very repetitive. They come up with one combat system, and possibly one traversal system, and you do it again and again until the game is complete. The gameplay experience of finishing the main quest in DA:I is identical to the gameplay experience of doing one side quest. And it's been like that in pretty much every RPG ever made, barring some exceptions.

 

I don’t think you disagree. I think were are saying pretty much the same thing.

 

My point is that, contrary to a number of complaints, Inquisition does not have fetch quests, non-plot related fights or other side quests in any greater quantity than Origins or (as you point out) most any other CRPG in history. The difference is that, in Origins, these things were segregated from the main game well enough that you could ignore them if you didn’t want to do them (because you think they’re too repetitive; they ruin the pacing and focus of the story; or for any other reason). In Inquisition, they’re not only mixed in with the story quests in a way that makes them harder to differentiate, but you have to do a certain number of them in order to gain the power you need to unlock the next story quest. However, if you wanted to, you could spend the vast majority of your time in Origins doing things that had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with building alliances and stopping the blight.

 

The apparent difference between the “MMORPG-ness” of Inquisition and the “pure CRPG-ness” of Origins gameplay has more to do with packaging and presentation than actual content. That's not to say that there aren't differences between in gameplay between the two (not to mention characters, story and decision making and consequences) but both games had plenty of side quests and loads of repetitive gameplay, neither of which necessarily prevent the game from being fun to play.

[Maverick827]

My point is that, contrary to a number of complaints, Inquisition does not have fetch quests, non-plot related fights or other side quests in any greater quantity than Origins or (as you point out) most any other CRPG in history.

I believe that Inquisiton does have a far greater quantity of fetch quests than Origins does.

[Elhanan]

I just have to ask if it is your personal mission to convince someone to like a game they are not interested in after reading the actual player reviews? You retort every post someone makes where they don't like the game. We all get that you like it. I am truly happy for you that you do. It seems it is a good way for you to spend your time given what you have posted about yourself, and I can understand how that would make your feel even more positive about the game because it is a healthy and helpful as well as an enjoyable outlet for you. I am sincerely glad that this game is something you are enjoying. I know how that is because for two + years I was laid up and rather sick - bedridden to be precise due to being sick and all the games I played then were true life savers or sanity savers. I played one game half way through back in 2010 on xbox and never played anything again until I was sick. So I fully understand how much this matter, but not everyone enjoys this game and there are for people who don't darn good reasons why they do not enjoy it. And them giving their opinions is what helps consumers who are very discerning or who have be hit with the BW/EA PR machine of promises once or twice before help give a fair look at what the game is like to those who have certain expectation. Most of us would not have bought it. I did and now I just play it when I feel I have nothing else I'd rather being doing like sleeping.
 
I have to ask if you are one of those who takes some people's rejection of this game as a personal slight because I've seen that quite a lot in this forum - where some people feel they have to prove the game is awesome to those who do not feel that way. I'm glad for those that enjoy it because they are having fun and getting their money's worth. But to continually treat our reviews as if they are wrong and yours if right quite frankly is rude. Nobody is right or wrong. They are just a whole lot of opinions. A discerning consumer wades through them and notices trends and if those trends are negative about the things they care about then that sways them. If they are negative about the things they don't care about then that sways them oppositely. It has no reflection on people who like it. Different strokes for different folks and all that. But to keep implying others are wrong because you like it or summarily reject those opinions, which is your right to do except its as if it is your personal mission to persuade a person who was on the fence then decided to not get it based on honest feedback. That's kind of strange. And if I didn't know better I would honestly swear you were someone who worked for BW and was paid to roam the forums and counter all the negatives with glowing praise. I don't believe you are but this is how you have come off in many threads where basically anything anyone says that is negative is dismissed as if not true. Well, not true for you, clearly. True for those who say it though absolutely.

Actually, I reply to this poster that has chosen not to play trying to figure out why. I could understand a little better if it was based on a known bug (eg; wipes hard drive when uninstalled like an older D&D title), but the mechanics for me have been fine, and I am disabled.

But to base it on a matter of opinion over aspects of RP immersion seems a bit off, esp when that person has not experienced the story. If fetch or minor quests put one off, then they can be skipped; only took what was in line with the goal of my own Inquisitor, and skipped a few that seemed out of character. The only quest grievance I have is for the Bottles of Thedas, and have no idea on how to avoid it.

While I agree that the dialogue of DAO is superb, there is much worth hearing in DAI, too. One of the lines overheard while passing by soldiers in Haven still amuses me, and the lines concerning Cole are touching when one gathers the whole context. So I take the time to post the other side of the fence. Or only those complaining supposed to get time on the forums?

[DreamwareStudio]

Actually, I reply to this poster that has chosen not to play trying to figure out why. I could understand a little better if it was based on a known bug (eg; wipes hard drive when uninstalled like an older D&D title), but the mechanics for me have been fine, and I am disabled.

But to base it on a matter of opinion over aspects of RP immersion seems a bit off, esp when that person has not experienced the story. If fetch or minor quests put one off, then they can be skipped; only took what was in line with the goal of my own Inquisitor, and skipped a few that seemed out of character. The only quest grievance I have is for the Bottles of Thedas, and have no idea on how to avoid it.

While I agree that the dialogue of DAO is superb, there is much worth hearing in DAI, too. One of the lines overheard while passing by soldiers in Haven still amuses me, and the lines concerning Cole are touching when one gathers the whole context. So I take the time to post the other side of the fence. Or only those complaining supposed to get time on the forums?

 

Bugs don't put me off unless I think the game isn't particularly great. I bought and played the Witcher I before it was enhanced. The thing with that, though, was the story, characters, and world were so thought out and so captivating that I suffered through the glitch-fest. My decision and dislike for DA:I are for other reasons besides bugs that I've mentioned and covered either by the review I linked or what starlitegirl so eloquently stated.

 

I have a definite idea on what makes a cRPG and a definite idea on what makes up for missing facets of a cRPG. DA:I does not meet my criteria. Period.

[Elhanan]

Except gameplay is challenging; hence a reason why I still have yet to face the area Dragons because the other things can be formidable at times, at least on Nightmare. And the story is immersive, have no idea what others were expecting.

But I like the game; sue me.

[Shardik1]

There are a great many who find the game not challenging at all.  Killed my 1st dragon at level 6 easy with no potions.  About the only thing I could find challenging is to reach an errant shard on a cliff or to divine what and where a sonar ping is pinging on. 

[DreamwareStudio]

Except gameplay is challenging; hence a reason why I still have yet to face the area Dragons because the other things can be formidable at times, at least on Nightmare. And the story is immersive, have no idea what others were expecting.

But I like the game; sue me.

 

I never said you or anyone should dislike the game. I said I disliked what I learned about it.

[Elhanan]

I never said you or anyone should dislike the game. I said I disliked what I learned about it.

Not really; simply point to an article and agree with it although you have not experienced the game. And mine and many other opinions differ. So I continue to wonder as to why the negative reviews are held more closely than the positive ones.

The game works just fine, the story can be engaging, combat can be challenging, and the dialogue can be highly entertaining.

[DreamwareStudio]

Truth is as I pointed out you can get it down the line for a much better price with all the DLC included, bugs all or mostly all fixed, and play it on what will likely be a newer PC so it will run even better. Maybe even find some mods that will give power so you don't have to waste time in game accruing it doing boring tasks you don't wish to. I don't personally see that as cheating. I see that as bypassing things that keep you from doing what you want in the game early on. For those who want a harder game, gaining power actually makes it easier because it acts as a barrier to keep you from going to other locations. You need power to unlock them. So really something like a power adding mod could allow you to go to places that are challenging. Of course, as you gain levels which you will you will find there's nothing level to challenge you if you are playing on nightmare which I see many people do practically right out of the gate.

 

PC power isn't an issue. I can run TW II on the very highest of settings without any lag.

[DreamwareStudio]

Not really; simply point to an article and agree with it although you have not experienced the game. And mine and many other opinions differ. So I continue to wonder as to why the negative reviews are held more closely than the positive ones.

The game works just fine, the story can be engaging, combat can be challenging, and the dialogue can be highly entertaining.

 

You seem to be under the impression that I merely checked out a couple of resources. Hardly. I'm much more thorough than that. It's my nature.  I'm sorry you can't understand that given what I found led me to the belief playing DA:I would be a waste of my time, but that is the way it is. Had a demo been provided, I'd have played it to further cement or erase my ill-feelings. As it was, I watched some demo videos. Those cemented rather than erased. In hindsight, I wish like hell I had played the DA 2 demo before buying it.

 

I assumed why the negative outweighs the positive was rather obvious given EA's history with ME and DA. Another company whose track record is more favorable and provides evidence of a definite vision (CD Projekt, Obsidian, Overhaul Games, and Bethesda) would get the benefit of the doubt as did Bioware prior to 2007. EA got the benefit of the doubt from me with ME 3 and DA 2. Burn me once, shame on me. Burn me twice, shame on you. And if I am burned regarding cRPGs in the way I was by EA, yeah, it takes a lot of impressing me to regain my financial support. A middle-of-the-road effort certainly isn't enough.

[Elhanan]

You seem to be under the impression that I merely checked out a couple of resources. Hardly. I'm much more thorough than that. It's my nature.  I'm sorry you can't understand that given what I found led me to the belief playing DA:I would be a waste of my time, but that is the way it is. Had a demo been provided, I'd have played it to further cement or erase my ill-feelings. As it was, I watched some demo videos. Those cemented rather than erased. In hindsight, I wish like hell I had played the DA 2 demo before buying it.
 
I assumed why the negative outweighs the positive was rather obvious given EA's history with ME and DA. Another company whose track record is more favorable and provides evidence of a definite vision (CD Projekt, Obsidian, Overhaul Games, and Bethesda) would get the benefit of the doubt as did Bioware prior to 2007. EA got the benefit of the doubt from me with ME 3 and DA 2. Burn me once, shame on me. Burn me twice, shame on you. And if I am burned regarding cRPGs in the way I was by EA, yeah, it takes a lot of impressing me to regain my financial support. A middle-of-the-road effort certainly isn't enough.

And seeing that I also enjoyed DA2 and ME3, and have no ill will towards EA at all, guess that never the twain shall meet. Guess it pays to avoid being burned.

[madmantheonly1]

Ah, well that makes sense. I think for this person it was a matter of a few simple things from what I gather. Gameplay being easier than others. A challenge was wanted and people confirmed it wasn't really that hard though they did try to make it hard by screwing with tactics, potions, abilities, etc which actually failed to make it harder and seemed to just make it less fun. Also I think the lack of immersion and drive to finish the story along with some of the tedious work involved was off putting. This is something a large group has felt about this game. Even I can think back to DA2 and as much as I hated it I was pretty immersed in the story and my Hawke. Moreso than this one. I didn't not care about any of it in that game. I was simply frustrated with some of what was too stupid for words (like the whole escalation of the mage/templar thing which everyone saw coming but you had to sit and watch and wait for it to implode - utterly insane! or never-ending enemies literally dropping from the sky!) Now those things seem more like nuisance things compared to this story which is nearly impossible for me to really care about my character or what happens though I have tried many times and still keep trying (which is pretty sad or pathetic I guess LOL).

 

I think these sorts of things are things our friend here wanted in a game and when enough people said it's not there that was simply enough. Not everyone feels this way but if you are selective about getting a game and you come across this stuff, you will likely wait or just not buy. I probably would have waited like I did with skyrim which I absolutely adored.

 

As for matter of opinion on immersion seeming off - if enough people say it then it is worth paying attention to because that is something you never really hear about RPG games. But when you hear it then it is something to consider and put into context - why did that person not feel immersed? Usually it's worth holding off on to see if you can pinpoint the why. I would never buy a game people said they couldn't immerse themselves in. I would wait and dig deeper.

 

Very well said, count me in for those people who just could not immerse themselves into the story, the rest didnt bother me, game mechanics, tactical cam issues, or bugs, never bothered me. I loved DAO and even though DA2 was weaker and I never much felt the need to replay it it was still good to play through once for me, the entire ME series is brilliant in my opinion I was even in the minority there who were actually ok with the original ending, not that the extended cut didnt improve on it, it did, but I still just absolutely loved the game anyway.

With DAI, I actually felt the first time with modern bioware games that I cant find my place in, my favorite type of game is the extremely story driven one (you can call it mostly linear, but not necessarily, depends on how the story was written), almost to the extent of an interactive movie, and in that respect I was sort of disappointed with the game. I like the story quests, but the moment they ended all I could think of was that I have to go back and grind more power to be able to continue, and yes, you cannot completely ignore the sidequests unfortunatelly like many people say you can, to grind 40 power out for the last story quest I spent like 3 hours grinding when all I wanted to do is face the big baddie, but had to settle with planting banners

Here's a suggestion: bioware, make a patch that removes power requirements from story quests (or just set the required amount to 0), so you can always continue the story if you want to.

Other things have more to do with writing, and storytelling. Let me name another game where story was interrupted by grindy bits, but it was done well, it is a classic: Freelancer. I loved it, and I mean I played 13 hours non stop from start to finish it. It was a sort of open world (or space) game and the writing complemented that. 

There were story missions, when they ended they always ended with a bit more information, something you didnt know before, but always ended with you not knowing what to do next, that's when your partner went to investigate the next clue, while you were left to basically grind money or whatever, when you had enough you were contacted by your partner and she said she had found the next clue, the story went on. That didnt break immersion for me because It was perceived as "we are trying to figure out our next move", while in DAI, I know about the red templars and the demon army they are trying to raise, I can see it on the map, I know it is important for the story, and all I can see is that I cant click on it because I dont have enough power.

These are the things that break immersion in the story and ultimately in the game for me. the knowledge that I know exactly what I want to do and what I would do, but I am blocked by something...

[Elhanan]

I never once had to Grind in this game, and especially not for Power. Of course, I wanted to see other areas and perform quests outside the MQ, and did not wish to rush to the conclusion.

As far as story and immersion into it, that will be a matter of personal taste. However, for myself it was exactly what I expected and wanted; a proper sequel to the past games, and a nice look into what the future might hold. And I certainly enjoyed the Boss fights here more than the Kiting Fests that were in some of the past games and DLC.

[madmantheonly1]

I never once had to Grind in this game, and especially not for Power. Of course, I wanted to see other areas and perform quests outside the MQ, and did not wish to rush to the conclusion.

As far as story and immersion into it, that will be a matter of personal taste. However, for myself it was exactly what I expected and wanted; a proper sequel to the past games, and a nice look into what the future might hold. And I certainly enjoyed the Boss fights here more than the Kiting Fests that were in some of the past games and DLC.

 

Yes, I guess it is subjective, it is the way we approach the game, and it is ok that it is different. For me all I wanted to do it what happens next, and it frustrated me a lot that I could not go on and find out, because i had to go out and close n+1 rifts to get the power for it I didnt mind much for "exploration" I guess the setting of the game or the series was just not right for me for that, I mean, I genuinely had the feeling of watching a movie (the main story) that gets interrupted every 15 minutes by commercials (grind for power), and all I wanted to do is to get just enough power to be able to continue, and it seemed like that as I progressed with the game, the blocks of commercials just got longer and longer. Sorry for the stupid metaphor but that was the closest one I could come up with This could be resolved by removing the power requirements from main story quests though, and even though there are more slight problems with the game this alone would boost my personal rating up of it by like 2 points (on a 10 scale, from 6 to 8) add one more point for real and meaningful choices, and one for fixing pc control and bug issues and it is 10/10 for me

[Shardik1]

Elhanen, you are proof that some people are entertained by less than other people in that "you have never had to grind" in this game and have still put in so many hrs without finishing,