776 réponses à ce sujet

[StrangeStrategy]

What did she even do with it? Use it to make a poison that made her lover drink so he'd die? And I love how I kept asking her what it was for and she kept throwing a hissy fit (remind you of anyone from DA2? <cough> Anders <cough>). Then when I give it to her she lets me come along when she uses it to murder her lover...Why not just tell me that right off the bat when I asked? Why didn't I get to arrest and execute her for killing for noble?

 

I think it was a potion that woke him up long enough for him to say his last words to her. Give her the normal heart, he simply dies. And she gets mad. If she was going to poison him, she could use more common ingredients, nor would she involve the Inquisitor or poison him personally.

 

I mean... why did you think she murdered him? That's like, jumping to the totally wrong conclusion lol! How does your brain even work? Talk to her: They loved each other.

[Kinsz]

I think it was a potion that woke him up long enough for him to say his last words to her. Give her the normal heart, he simply dies. And she gets mad. If she was going to poison him, she could use more common ingredients, nor would she involve the Inquisitor or poison him personally.

 

I mean... why did you think she murdered him? That's like, jumping to the totally wrong conclusion lol! How does your brain even work? Talk to her: They loved each other.

BSN logic my friend here 1 plus 1 equals 3.

[Jukaga]

My only beef with her is that she didn't deliver on her promise to get some tailors from Val Royaux to make me some clothes worthy of my station. My first run I thought that would be a thing and I was happily looking forward to getting some decent clothes to wear around Skyhold...

[vnth]

My only beef with her is that she didn't deliver on her promise to get some tailors from Val Royaux to make me some clothes worthy of my station. My first run I thought that would be a thing and I was happily looking forward to getting some decent clothes to wear around Skyhold...

yeah did anyone actually unlocked that shop?

[Jukaga]

yeah did anyone actually unlocked that shop?

It's just dialogue iirc, there are no clothing options. (yet, with all the feedback I see a Mirror and Clothing dlc at some point.)

[TheLittleBird]

I think it was a potion that woke him up long enough for him to say his last words to her. Give her the normal heart, he simply dies. And she gets mad. If she was going to poison him, she could use more common ingredients, nor would she involve the Inquisitor or poison him personally.

 

I mean... why did you think she murdered him? That's like, jumping to the totally wrong conclusion lol! How does your brain even work? Talk to her: They loved each other.

 

1. The Duke's disease was incurable and he knew it.

2. He seemed to suffer from it.

3. The Inquisitor's involvement allowed Vivienne to get them in good graces with the Duke's immediate family, who are strong voices within the higher ranks of the Chantry.

4. The Duke seemed to be at peace with his death.

 

Need I go on? Unless you are aware of what happens when you give her the normal heart and what the book found in her room says about the heart of a Snowy Wyvern, it's not that odd to jump to the conclusion that she poisoned him. With him actually allowing it because he was suffering. It's the Game, my dear.

[wickedgoodreed]

I think it was a potion that woke him up long enough for him to say his last words to her. Give her the normal heart, he simply dies. And she gets mad. If she was going to poison him, she could use more common ingredients, nor would she involve the Inquisitor or poison him personally.

 

I mean... why did you think she murdered him? That's like, jumping to the totally wrong conclusion lol! How does your brain even work? Talk to her: They loved each other.

 

I don't think she murdered him, but after playing through the follow up scene with her "family" at Skyhold, I can see where one might wonder. She gleefully admits to using the Inquisitor's involvement in order to profit off of the Duke's death.  Her callousness there caught me off guard, and made me question how much she actually loved him. It could easily have all been an act. The scene didn't come up during my first playthrough when her approval was higher, but... yeah, it lowered my opinion of her a great deal. Just...what an ugly individual.

[TheLittleBird]

I don't think she murdered him, but after playing through the follow up scene with her "family" at Skyhold, I can see where one might wonder. She gleefully admits to using the Inquisitor's involvement in order to profit off of the Duke's death.  Her callousness there caught me off guard, and made me question how much she actually loved him. It could easily have all been an act. The scene didn't come up during my first playthrough when her approval was higher, but... yeah, it lowered my opinion of her a great deal. Just...what an ugly individual.

 

She used his death, however much it saddened her, to make the most out of it. A true player of the Game. She's still hurt by it, but that doesn't mean she can't take the opportunity whenever it arises.

[Ashagar]

Also making it known the inquisitor was involved also likely scared away some of the game's, many vultures who would have likely tried to exploit the dukes death.

[TheLittleBird]

Also making it known the inquisitor was involved also likely scared away some of the game's, many vultures who would have likely tried to exploit the dukes death.

 

Possibly. Though the fact that it was well-known throughout the Empire that Madame de Fer was the Duke's mistress should be reason enough for people to stray away from exploiting it (at least directly), considering she's such a good player.

[MrMrPendragon]

Yeah I don't like her either.

 

She's fine mostly but I just don't like how she can keep saying that the Circle ain't that bad when she gets to sleep with a duke and have the political power to negate any abuse Templars might throw her way.

 

Oh yeah, Circle is fine with the training and stuff, but it's not all sunshine and rainbows.

[KaiserShep]

I don't think she ever says that the Circle isn't that bad, but rather that it's a necessity to ensure the protection of both mages and other people.

[Kinsz]

In my playthrough she made sure the Duke's death benefits the Inquisition , which in truth benefits me ( the Inquisitor ) more than it does Vivienne herself.

[Ivalo]

I love Vivienne. I love that she started as lover for a king and used that to climb up, gathering right people and tieing them around her finger.

 

Spoiler

Even the Inquisitor. In the end she outright admits having used Inquisitor's good position to help her shine even brighter. At least that happened to my diplomatic, in good stands with Viv -Inquisitor.

 

Anyways, she's a tough love kind-mother with awesome fashion sense. I approve.

[Owlbear]

Whatever else you might think of her, surely we cal all agree that Mme. Vivienne de Fer should win the Captain Jean Luc Picard award for most French name and most English accent.

[Pewps]

Anyways, she's a tough love kind-mother with awesome fashion sense. I approve.

 

Most mothers don't use their children to advance their own selfish ambition

[wickedgoodreed]

She used his death, however much it saddened her, to make the most out of it. A true player of the Game. She's still hurt by it, but that doesn't mean she can't take the opportunity whenever it arises.

 

It's possible she's hurt. It's also possible she put on a show for the Inquisitor's benefit in order to ensure "cooperation." I saw someone who treated every individual involved as mere means to her own ends. That's a horrible way to treat people, period. But these aren't even her enemies, they're her "loved" ones and allies. If that makes her a master of the Game, then congratulations? Still a despicable way to behave.

[TheLittleBird]

I don't think she ever says that the Circle isn't that bad, but rather that it's a necessity to ensure the protection of both mages and other people.

 

That's people reading between the lines, mostly. 

[TheLittleBird]

It's possible she's hurt. It's also possible she put on a show for the Inquisitor's benefit in order to ensure "cooperation." I saw someone who treated every individual involved as mere means to her own ends. That's a horrible way to treat people, period. But these aren't even her enemies, they're her "loved" ones and allies. If that makes her a master of the Game, then congratulations? Still a despicable way to behave.

 

But the Game is despicable, my dear.

 

Okay sorry about that. But still. I think she's both saddened by his loss and putting on a show. That's how the Game works. Did you read The Masked Empire? Empress Celene is a master of the Game, but I wouldn't hesitate to call her horrible on a personal level.

[LD Little Dragon]

Ironically if she becomes Divine, it's as bloody an outcome as a hardened Leliana. Some mages rise within the circle and can hold titles and lands, but the game tells you "the true power resides with her", including the Templar Order she recreates leashed to her. Basically a supreme mage who can use templars to shut down any rivals/dissenters.

 

---

 

And you can be sure the mages holding titles and land are part of the aristocracy. For the common mage few things change.

 

Isn't that exactly how the mages regained power in Tevinter?  First they took over the Chantry, and then they took over the political leadership ...

 

Vivienne sounds more like a Black Divine than a White Divine.

 

So, Miss 'Status Quo' ends up setting up the Andrastian nations to become a Tevinter-like mageocracy.

 

Master of the Game, indeed.

[Andreas Amell]

Which comes full circle to what I initially said that got us in this exchange: She wants to maintain the status quo because she's living like a queen under it, and who wouldn't want to keep that.

There's nothing overtly wrong with that, if it were me, I'd want to maintain it too. Under the Status Quo, she's not really living under the rules of the Circle, or even under the rules of the Chantry concerning magic. To wit:

How we're introduced. She freezes mouthy boy, and, if you demand it, will kill him with magic. The only person being "served" is the Herald, since you can let her deal with him, and he embarrasses him and sends him on his way, but it is an option.

She can become Divine. Mages aren't allowed to hold titles or land in southern Thedas, because that's magic ruling over man. So by becoming Divine, she not only doesn't preserve the Status Quo, she turns the whole thing on it's head. I don't know what happens in the epilogue screens if she becomes Divine, as I said, she hasn't gotten that yet, but that's a pretty glaring change to the Status Quo.

Well it seemed like you implied that maintaining the status quo was a bad thing in this game. We're not expected to change it, we're really supposed to finish off the Big Bad Villain.

[Lord Giantsbane]

I do not agree with her, but then she dislikes Sera, and that is a big plus for me.

[Kulyok]

Vivienne and Blackwall are two characters I really can't connect with. I'm seeing them for the archetypes they are(a charming scheming power-hungry mistress, a noble warden who is really a hunted criminal), but... well. Hollow writing? I'm afraid so. I really think the game's resources were badly spent on those two. Wish we could get more Iron Bull/Varric/Dorian/Solas dialogue instead.

[Han Shot First]

 

I have to look back at this, but I never got that impression lol. It seemed she wanted Cassandra, I just chose Viv because I was doing research for the thread on how to get specific divines. If she was trying to be manipulative, that'll be interesting to see next time around. 

 

 

Oh look, school's out. 

 

 

When she mentions Cassandra she more or less says that Cassandra has good ideas and would make a good Divine, but at the same time mentions that Cassandra would be a bit like a bull-in-a-china-shop, and lacks the grace and political acumen normally required of the position. She's praising Cassandra while simultaneously pointing out her flaws as a candidate. Those flaws, incidentally, also happen to align with Vivienne's strengths as a candidate. 

 

The Inquisitor can then respond to that with, "You'd make a good Divine!" as if he's just had a eureka moment, and the idea was his. Vivienne was playing the game the whole time and trying to lead the Inquisitor into that suggestion.

[TheLittleBird]

When she mentions Cassandra she more or less says that Cassandra has good ideas and would make a good Divine, but at the same time mentions that Cassandra would be a bit like a bull-in-a-china-shop, and lacks the grace and political acumen normally required of the position. She's praising Cassandra while simultaneously pointing out her flaws as a candidate. Those flaws, incidentally, also happen to align with Vivienne's strengths as a candidate. 

 

The Inquisitor can then respond to that with, "You'd make a good Divine!" as if he's just had a eureka moment, and the idea was his. Vivienne was playing the game the whole time and trying to lead the Inquisitor into that suggestion.

 

I didn't really pick up on that at the time, but after thinking about it it's actually a brilliant conversation. The fact that I didn't pick up on it makes it even better. Though I didn't fall for it, and still had Cassandra become Divine.