776 réponses à ce sujet

[daveliam]

She used his death, however much it saddened her, to make the most out of it. A true player of the Game. She's still hurt by it, but that doesn't mean she can't take the opportunity whenever it arises.

 

Yep.  The Duke is dead.  She can mourn him, but she needs to continue playing The Game and his death can be useful to her towards that end.  I didn't get any 'glee' from her in that scene.  More like she was just acting on a fortuitous opportunity that landed in her lap. 

 

When she mentions Cassandra she more or less says that Cassandra has good ideas and would make a good Divine, but at the same time mentions that Cassandra would be a bit like a bull-in-a-china-shop, and lacks the grace and political acumen normally required of the position. She's praising Cassandra while simultaneously pointing out her flaws as a candidate. Those flaws, incidentally, also happen to align with Vivienne's strengths as a candidate. 

 

The Inquisitor can then respond to that with, "You'd make a good Divine!" as if he's just had a eureka moment, and the idea was his. Vivienne was playing the game the whole time and trying to lead the Inquisitor into that suggestion.

 

Yep.  I totally read that scene in that same way.  I also wonder if it's part of the reason why she was so quick to denigrate Leliana.  Leliana is also a skilled player in the Game and Vivienne has the most to lose if she becomes the Divine.  So I read it as Vivienne praising Cassandra in an attempt to both demonstrate that she's not being too negative (and, thus, obvious in her intentions), but also praising the less threatening opponent.  This way, if the Inquisitor doesn't go along with her insinuations (that her skills are the best for the position), at least s/he's backing a candidate who won't be able to outplay her down the line. 

[luckybaer]

Y'all are some pretty passionate folk!

 

I haven't really gotten worked up over any of the characters yet.

[Fiery Phoenix]

 

• Most reasonable view on the Templar-Mage issue in the series
• Best mage in the game
• Impeccable fashion sense
• Has strong opinions of her own rather than just kissing the player's ass the whole game
• Hilarious
• Hates Sera

10/10 Would keep in my party permanently

 

 

10/10 Would read again.

[boissiere]

I'm so so about her.. She can mourn... It is sure her love dies but why does she hate Sera ? Is that just because she is read Jenny or because she is a thief ? I find Sera much more fun than her...

[Gaylonn]

I'm so so about her.. She can mourn... It is sure her love dies but why does she hate Sera ? Is that just because she is read Jenny or because she is a thief ? I find Sera much more fun than her...

 

Because Sera is a close minded child full of hypocrisy.

[rak72]

I like how Vivian handles

Spoiler

the conscripted mage rebellion after the game

if she is divine.  I'll probably always make her divine.

[_Aine_]

She is very... surfacey.  Much is ego, much for show.  It doesn't mean she is empty, or without heart...though I do suspect she has hers in a box at home somewhere kept safe.  

 

She is ever-so-much-better-than-you, even when she likes you.  I don't think you are ever close as *equals* in her mind, even when she is rather fond of you.  

 

But I don't hate her.  

[Adynata]

She made me hate her after some banter with Blackwall. I didn't like him much as first, but after a conversation about why she doesn't like him even though he's trying to be nice made me feel so bad for him and really hate her. It's as if she dislikes people just for the heck of it, and when they ask why she's all "of course I hate you, you should know why silly goose."

[daveliam]

I'm baffled by some of the comments here.  Does Vivienne have widely varying paths based on your decisions or do people just perceive her so much more differently than the other companions?

 

In both of my playthroughs so far, she has been warm and affectionate in her dealings with me.  Yes, there's always a feeling that she wouldn't be pleasant to deal with if I angered her, but I've not gotten a feeling of condescension or manipulation from her at all.  And I am consciously making different choices in my playthroughs, so it's not that. 

 

My third playthrough is going to be my "import the opposite world state and make the opposite decisions" playthrough to see the variation.  Maybe she'll hate that Inquisitor?  But I doubt it because she's going to be my "make the hard decisions for her own benefit" Inquisitor.  In other words, exactly the one that I would think Vivienne would like.  My first Inquisitor was my honor-bound, knight in shining armor, goody-two-shoes Inquisitor.  If she didn't like one of them, I would have thought it was going to be him, but they got along famously.  Like besties. 

 

I just can't figure it out.

[stonerbishop]

I disliked vivi until her quest. I don't care about the Duke or her feelings, but my quest bugged and the snowy didn't drop any loot so I gave her regular wyvern heart.

She as like, ' well played '

After that I likes her

[Iakus]

I'm so so about her.. She can mourn... It is sure her love dies but why does she hate Sera ? Is that just because she is read Jenny or because she is a thief ? I find Sera much more fun than her...

It's because she is coarse, emotional, and has no respect for authority.  Pretty much everything Vivienne isn't.

 

I went into the game not expecting to like Vivienne.  But she ended up being an unexpected favorite.

[Reznore57]

I'm baffled by some of the comments here.  Does Vivienne have widely varying paths based on your decisions or do people just perceive her so much more differently than the other companions?

 

In both of my playthroughs so far, she has been warm and affectionate in her dealings with me.  Yes, there's always a feeling that she wouldn't be pleasant to deal with if I angered her, but I've not gotten a feeling of condescension or manipulation from her at all.  And I am consciously making different choices in my playthroughs, so it's not that. 

 

My third playthrough is going to be my "import the opposite world state and make the opposite decisions" playthrough to see the variation.  Maybe she'll hate that Inquisitor?  But I doubt it because she's going to be my "make the hard decisions for her own benefit" Inquisitor.  In other words, exactly the one that I would think Vivienne would like.  My first Inquisitor was my honor-bound, knight in shining armor, goody-two-shoes Inquisitor.  If she didn't like one of them, I would have thought it was going to be him, but they got along famously.  Like besties. 

 

I just can't figure it out.

 

 

If she doesn't like you :

 

Spoiler

 

 

I never got this in my game , I sort of get along with her ...probably because I told her I wanted order back (it made sense for my Dalish to say that since he was send to the conclave because humans trouble were disturbing his clan) .

And from what I saw with her in game , you get way more approval with conversation than your actual action .(a lot of time she simply doesn't care much about what you do , I freed the mage , allied with the warden , let Morri drink ,and she loved me ...).

But if you tell to her face you stronly disagree , she gets really really passive agressive , it seems.

[TheLittleBird]

If she doesn't like you :

 

Spoiler

 

 

I never got this in my game , I sort of get along with her ...probably because I told her I wanted order back (it made sense for my Dalish to say that since he was send to the conclave because humans trouble were disturbing his clan) .

And from what I saw with her in game , you get way more approval with conversation than your actual action .(a lot of time she simply doesn't care much about what you do , I freed the mage , allied with the warden , let Morri drink ,and she loved me ...).

But if you tell to her face you stronly disagree , she gets really really passive agressive , it seems.

 

That is amazing. Classic Madame de Fer.

 

I was getting confused by all these comments of people saying that Vivienne stole their furniture. Scratching my head, in fact. Now I know. Thank you.

[Farangbaa]

Spoiler

 

Oh she's fantastic.

[Captain_Obvious]

Can you make her leave?  Because I'd really love to make her leave.  She is well-written, which is why I hate her (I always hated poor Ashley in ME also).  I just don't talk to Vivienne, so I never saw the furniture thing.  

[robertthebard]

Because Sera is a close minded child full of hypocrisy.

Actually, it's because she knows that she'll be Sera's neighbor if Leliana gets to be Divine. No more circles means no more hierarchy that she's at the top of, means that she's just another random mage vying for power she can't have. So she hates what Sera represents for her.

[Sir DeLoria]

I liked her, she couldn't be more annoying than Anders anyway.

[Sizzle]

Whenever she talks, she sounds a bit like a mom to me   But apart from that, yeah, I actually .. Like her. *hides*

[MrGDL87]

If she doesn't like you :

 

Spoiler

 

 

I never got this in my game , I sort of get along with her ...probably because I told her I wanted order back (it made sense for my Dalish to say that since he was send to the conclave because humans trouble were disturbing his clan) .

And from what I saw with her in game , you get way more approval with conversation than your actual action .(a lot of time she simply doesn't care much about what you do , I freed the mage , allied with the warden , let Morri drink ,and she loved me ...).

But if you tell to her face you stronly disagree , she gets really really passive agressive , it seems.

 

Thank you for posting this!!! .

 

This is the first time I've seen it and I just love her even more. Vivienne is similar to a panto villain who teases a reaction from the audience. I like the fact Vivienne uses intelligence and sarcasm as a way of disagreeing with the inquisitor. I also find it funny that the inquisitor didn't have a response and just left. Even Vivienne's mannerisms in the scene are perfect as she keeps her composure (e.g. using a fan) despite a confrontational conversation.

 

In short, I love this scene.

 

Vivienne is a polarizing and intriguing character which is a testament to the work done by Mary Kirby and Indira Varma.

 

 

 

   
 

[Thiefy]

I just think it's funny that people are saying Vivi manipulates the quizzie.

 

No, my intention was always to make her divine. She didn't put the idea in my head, although it was entirely meta gaming.

 

What I like is that she kind of brings up the obvious point of how not everyone will like her as divine and my quizzie basically says "Make it work," and she's like "hmm, ok."

 

She does most of the leg work herself too. Of course there's her alliance with the inquisition but she's actively been a part of it and certainly carried her weight.

 

Vivienne is many things but idle is not one of them.

 

What makes everything even better is that my toon and her don't even have to have the same goals - just making sure not to get in the way of each other is fine. I LIKE having that kind of flexibility.

 

Of course Vivienne gets a lot from the inquisitions but she gives in turn right back. There's no one better to have in your corner during tough times and there is no one else who could give you a run for your money like she could.

 

The emotion, caring and vulnerability is there too - just in subtexts. I get where people are coming from with how she handles the Dukes death, thinking it was in poor taste. Maybe it was, but love and ideals cannot fix everything. She's where she's at in life because she picks herself up and keeps moving when things get rough and understands that for things to work out a lot of times you need to be practical or pragmatic. Crying herself to sleep or staying beside herself with grief literally helps no one. The best thing she can do is keep her chin up and put one foot in front of the other.

 

If you talk to her after his death you see her trying to keep positive in the chat options but even then after a while she will say "sorry i don't want to talk about this anymore." Yes, this did benefit her, make no mistake, but this wasn't as political as say, Anora trying to rule after Cailin's death. For all the speculation about her motives it's strange that no one has brought up that one of the reasons she brings the Duke family to Skyhold is so that they can also try to move on/forward. 

 

And of course all three of them will be playing "The Game" while they are at Skyhold but I just think it's funny/weird that a person can't have good intentions AND still want the best possible outcome for the situation - as if the two are exclusive or something.

[TheLittleBird]

The emotion, caring and vulnerability is there too - just in subtexts. I get where people are coming from with how she handles the Dukes death, thinking it was in poor taste. Maybe it was, but love and ideals cannot fix everything. She's where she's at in life because she picks herself up and keeps moving when things get rough and understands that for things to work out a lot of times you need to be practical or pragmatic. Crying herself to sleep or staying beside herself with grief literally helps no one. The best thing she can do is keep her chin up and put one foot in front of the other.

 

If you talk to her after his death you see her trying to keep positive in the chat options but even then after a while she will say "sorry i don't want to talk about this anymore." Yes, this did benefit her, make no mistake, but this wasn't as political as say, Anora trying to rule after Cailin's death. For all the speculation about her motives it's strange that no one has brought up that one of the reasons she brings the Duke family to Skyhold is so that they can also try to move on/forward. 

 

And of course all three of them will be playing "The Game" while they are at Skyhold but I just think it's funny/weird that a person can't have good intentions AND still want the best possible outcome for the situation - as if the two are exclusive or something.

 

Of course, that's Madame de Fer all the way. "The Game" is always at the top, and receives the most attention from her. But emotions get tended to as well, albeit in a way people might find apathetic or 'cold-hearted'. Which Vivienne really is not. She just seems that way. 

 

And you may be right about that last part, with her bringing the Duke's family to Skyhold so they can move on after having spoken with both Vivienne and the Inquisitor. Though I think that doesn't receive as much attention simply because Vivienne states in that very same scene that their now good ties to the Inquisition will benefit the organization and ensure it is a power in Southern Thedas. For some that's either a testament to Viv's brilliance to making the most out of a dire situation, like it was for me, or proof that she is a cruel "b*tch" who manipulates everyone and doesn't think about feelings at all.

[Rifneno]

Vivienne is garbage.  She's completely without redeeming qualities to me.  She's self-serving, self-righteous, and self-superior.  I've been gaming since the NES, and I have never hated a so-called "ally" like this piece of trash.

 

It's ironic that she's so pro-Circle because she sounds just like the powerful magisters.  Speaking of the Circle, it's fine when mages who actually lived in the Circle are pro-Circle.  Your Wynnes and your Finns (didn't mean that to rhyme).  But when some mouthbreather who lived the pampered life of an Orlesian noble, they don't get to call people fighting for basic freedoms "mass murderers."  These people were living in prisons, being abused physically, mentally, and sexually while in constant fear or being made tranquil over nothing while this evolutionary throwback was rubbing elbows with the Empress.

 

I'd sell her to a slaver in a heartbeat if the game let me.  I don't just want her to die, I want her to suffer.

[TheLittleBird]

Vivienne is garbage.  She's completely without redeeming qualities to me.  She's self-serving, self-righteous, and self-superior.  I've been gaming since the NES, and I have never hated a so-called "ally" like this piece of trash.

 

It's ironic that she's so pro-Circle because she sounds just like the powerful magisters.  Speaking of the Circle, it's fine when mages who actually lived in the Circle are pro-Circle.  Your Wynnes and your Finns (didn't mean that to rhyme).  But when some mouthbreather who lived the pampered life of an Orlesian noble, they don't get to call people fighting for basic freedoms "mass murderers."  These people were living in prisons, being abused physically, mentally, and sexually while in constant fear or being made tranquil over nothing while this evolutionary throwback was rubbing elbows with the Empress.

 

I'd sell her to a slaver in a heartbeat if the game let me.  I don't just want her to die, I want her to suffer.

 

That's assuming every Circle is the same. When not every Circle is. Which is exactly what Vivienne says. Your post, whether intended or not, makes it sound like every Circle's conditions were like those in Kirkwall. When Kirkwall was the absolute worst of the worst, as far as I know.

[Master Race]

I also hate Vivienne.

[thesuperdarkone2]

I find it funny if Vivienne becomes Divine that she is the only candidate who doesn't openly support the Inquisition apart from Negative approval Cassandra.