She was making a poison to kill her lover. Yep. She claims magic is really dangerous, but apparently instant kill poisons are even more dangerous, especially when they are administered by your lover and you drink it thinking it's really medicine.
Play the quest again, she was making a youth potion for her lover.
I had assumed that she required the specific heart to make the formula that could make him lucid enough in his final moments to say goodbye. He was going to die anyway so what's the point? If she simply wanted to kill him, there's any number of fast acting poisons someone could whip up without having to go through the trouble of snagging a snowy wyvern. I'm pretty certain the notes you can read in Vivienne's room hints at this. Considering how she clearly seemed to feel, if she was going to have someone go through all that effort, she probably would have preferred to make something that would cure him outright, but it was beyond her reach.
I honestly can't remember. It all dissolved as soon as the Inquisitor says "I can't make heads or tails of this".
The only thing I hate about Vivienne is her opinions on the Grey Warden order.
The only thing I hate about Vivienne is her opinions on the Grey Warden order.
All things considered, it's not hard to see why she feels that way though. The Inquisitor tries to use logic about the role of Wardens in the Blight, but had the misfortune of speaking to an impostor about it. Beyond that, no one really knows exactly why Wardens are useful, and merely assume that they are. Their secretive nature might be seen as a necessity to them, but it clearly has huge drawbacks. I doubt Vivienne would be singing that tune if she knew that the Old Gods could only be slain by a Warden using their tainted blood. I bet Solas knows, that sumbich.
Kind of agree with her views on the Wardens. Mostly because they seriously need a revamping of the organization and on the treaties that's not a document from a millennium ago that says "We can act and take what we want with almost near impunity because Blights."
I guess it's kind of hard to see from our perspective because when we've played the game we've mostly seen really shitty circles but from a person that grew up in a fairly liberal circle like it sounds like she's from preserving the status quo for the Circle of Magi isn't really a bad idea. From the good circles people got to see their families pretty often and were free to pursue whatever relationships they wanted to some degree and felt safe from attacks(not everyone in the circle is actually good at magic. some just have the ability to use it). From Vivienne's circle it sounded like exceptional mages could even be invited to attend court balls. So even being against the circles I can see a POV that appreciates what they could be.
Kind of agree with her views on the Wardens. Mostly because they seriously need a revamping of the organization and on the treaties that's not a document from a millennium ago that says "We can act and take what we want with almost near impunity because Blights."
I guess it's kind of hard to see from our perspective because when we've played the game we've mostly seen really shitty circles but from a person that grew up in a fairly liberal circle like it sounds like she's from preserving the status quo for the Circle of Magi isn't really a bad idea. From the good circles people got to see their families pretty often and were free to pursue whatever relationships they wanted to some degree and felt safe from attacks(not everyone in the circle is actually good at magic. some just have the ability to use it). From Vivienne's circle it sounded like exceptional mages could even be invited to attend court balls. So even being against the circles I can see a POV that appreciates what they could be.
That's all well and good, but it sounds like her Circle was the exception, hence the major decision by most circles to vote for independence.
Vivienne's ambition clouds her judgement. She does not make choices based on the morality of something, but on the best possible outcome for HER. That is not to say she has no morality, that is to say she believes her morality should shape the outcome. This can be observed if she is the Divine; a tyrant. She needs as little power as possible, she reminds me of a politician. lol
That's all well and good, but it sounds like her Circle was the exception, hence the major decision by most circles to vote for independence.
Cept not , since many of the mages you run into in redcliff tell you how much they loved/missed the life at the circle but cannot go back due to the rebellion.
Mages like Fynn from DA O's Witch Hunt DLC also seemed pretty good at the ferelden circle and were allowed to leave the tower to do research and such.
Isn't the position of Divine basically that of a politician? The chantry itself is centered around politics and wields immense political power in pretty much all nations in southern Thedas.
Cept not , since many of the mages you run into in redcliff tell you how much they loved/missed the life at the circle but cannot go back due to the rebellion.
Mages like Fynn from DA O's Witch Hunt DLC also seemed pretty good at the ferelden circle and were allowed to leave the tower to do research and such.
Those mages were in the minority, and I hate majority rules as much as the next, as I know it is just mob rule, but regardless, the votes passed because the majority said yes, I sympathize with the mages who had to get caught up in it, but surely they could have turned themselves over to the templars or chantry if they felt that way. Oh right, the templars were too busy "purging the mages" to serve their role as "protectors".
Those mages were in the minority, and I hate majority rules as much as the next, as I know it is just mob rule, but regardless, the votes passed because the majority said yes, I sympathize with the mages who had to get caught up in it, but surely they could have turned themselves over to the templars or chantry if they felt that way. Oh right, the templars were too busy "purging the mages" to serve their role as "protectors".
If only there was some Divine that effectively collared the templars and kept them on a leash so they couldn't abuse power in the circles. *cough* Vivienne *cough*
Vivienne's ambition clouds her judgement. She does not make choices based on the morality of something, but on the best possible outcome for HER. That is not to say she has no morality, that is to say she believes her morality should shape the outcome. This can be observed if she is the Divine; a tyrant. She needs as little power as possible, she reminds me of a politician. lol
She's not a tyrant. People try to over throw her as Divine, and she stops them, each time. No different from how Justinia used Leliana to assassinate people she thought needed assassinating.
If the mages were conscripted, they try to start ANOTHER rebellion which she quickly puts down. Under Vivienne, mages have more freedom and responsibilities. Kind of makes the second attempt at rebellion a bit moot.
The only thing she does that is a bit like a tyrant is keep the templars under her direct control - I imagine to try avoid the fiasco that was Kirkwall, and you know, the whole red lyrium thing. Considering Cass will be rebuilding the seekers who are supposed to be top of the templar order though, and that Cass and Vivi get along quiet well I don't really forsee it being too much of a problem as of now.
It's simple. If Vivienne believes magic is so dangerous, why would she be envious of someone doing something exceptionally dangerous and likely to get themselves turned into an abomination according to Viv? She's envious because she secretly desires having greater and greater power and wishes that she was there as she would have used that oppurtunity to increase her own power.
See she doesn't really think magic is dangerous, she simply thinks that everyone else should be put under her control, whether by legal means or through force, preferably force controlled by her.
When does she say that?
Anyway. Look. I consider magic to be dangerous (in Thedas), just like Vivienne does. However, physically being in the Fade is something out of legend. It is a unique feat, and I too would be very envious if 4 people that I work with and see every day (as she does the other members of the Inquisition) actually got to live such a legend and walk in the Fade. They walked away seemingly unharmed and completely fine. Of course I'd envy them.
Just because Vivienne is ambitious doesn't mean everything she says or does is driven by a desire for power. Sure, she may actually regret the fact that she wasn't there because she'd have used the opportunity to increase her own power, but that's besides the point.
She's not a tyrant. People try to over throw her as Divine, and she stops them, each time. No different from how Justinia used Leliana to assassinate people she thought needed assassinating.
If the mages were conscripted, they try to start ANOTHER rebellion which she quickly puts down. Under Vivienne, mages have more freedom and responsibilities. Kind of makes the second attempt at rebellion a bit moot.
The only thing she does that is a bit like a tyrant is keep the templars under her direct control - I imagine to try avoid the fiasco that was Kirkwall, and you know, the whole red lyrium thing. Considering Cass will be rebuilding the seekers who are supposed to be top of the templar order though, and that Cass and Vivi get along quiet well I don't really forsee it being too much of a problem as of now.
So now the Mages and Templars can be victims of fate, that is a vicious cycle. You have the mages, perhaps with more freedoms (but not entirely free) and some leashed templars who stay addicted to lyrium (which I am sure is how vivenne asserts control over them.) Not a tyrant at all.
Those mages were in the minority, and I hate majority rules as much as the next, as I know it is just mob rule, but regardless, the votes passed because the majority said yes, I sympathize with the mages who had to get caught up in it, but surely they could have turned themselves over to the templars or chantry if they felt that way. Oh right, the templars were too busy "purging the mages" to serve their role as "protectors".
The majority only said yes because they had little other option at that point. Sure that means the majority wanted to separate at that point in time but that doesn't mean the majority were unhappy in the circle or that they thought separation from the circle was preferable before essentially being forced into voting for it. Really that was Vivienne's point, the vote went through based on the new restrictions that the Templars imposed on the mages and those restrictions only happened because of terrorist attacks committed by mages.
It's simple. If Vivienne believes magic is so dangerous, why would she be envious of someone doing something exceptionally dangerous and likely to get themselves turned into an abomination according to Viv? She's envious because she secretly desires having greater and greater power and wishes that she was there as she would have used that oppurtunity to increase her own power.
See she doesn't really think magic is dangerous, she simply thinks that everyone else should be put under her control, whether by legal means or through force, preferably force controlled by her.
Seems like you're convinced that she's even more of a dominatrix than Morrigan. Alright, I can see that, but that doesn't mean I agree with you, exactly.
If only there was some Divine that effectively collared the templars and kept them on a leash so they couldn't abuse power in the circles. *cough* Vivienne *cough*
I do not like her. She is written so well that I hate her.
That is a good thing, and I congradulate the writers.
Oh look, it seems that this thread is turning into a mages vs. Templars argument...
So now the Mages and Templars can be victims of fate, that is a vicious cycle. You have the mages, perhaps with more freedoms (but not entirely free) and some leashed templars who stay addicted to lyrium (which I am sure is how vivenne asserts control over them.) Not a tyrant at all.
"Free" as in Tevinter "free"? Nah. I imagine it's more like how she got to live prior to the breech - able to live where they like and hold jobs. If you disagree by all means, because what you or I assume what freedom the mages may or may not have is moot since the game nor the devs expand on the idea.
Essentially it's all head canon.
Also trying to figure out why you'd the templars being junkies on puppet strings would happen considering Cassandra would reform the seekers/templars, unless you believe she is part of Vivi's nefarious plot or something.
I like Vivienne. It's nice to have a character who's not sucking up to the protagonist and who's firm about her views without going batshit crazy when I disagree. I also like that she doesn't blow up chantries, isn't possessed by a spirit, doesn't kill an entire farmhold over a lost sword, doesn't kill an entire family and lies to me about her identity, isn't the bastard of the king with a claim to the throne, doesn't stay with me to get an old god baby, and doesn't play around with blood magic and demon-deals to fix an eluvian. She's exactly who she seems to be.
Those mages were in the minority, and I hate majority rules as much as the next, as I know it is just mob rule, but regardless, the votes passed because the majority said yes, I sympathize with the mages who had to get caught up in it, but surely they could have turned themselves over to the templars or chantry if they felt that way. Oh right, the templars were too busy "purging the mages" to serve their role as "protectors".
The majority didnt actually , which is why there are many loyalists still following Vivienne. You combine her mages with the rebels who didnt want to ...well rebel for a lack of better word then youd have plenty of mages who were happy to stay at their circles.
The majority didnt actually , which is why there are many loyalists still following Vivienne. You combine her mages with the rebels who didnt want to ...well rebel for a lack of better word then youd have plenty of mages who were happy to stay at their circles.
How many mages did she have loyal? Because the 4 in Redcliffe would mean that there weren't a lot of mages voting, eh?
So you think those 4 mages in Redcliff were what the loyalists i was referring to? lets use our heads a little shall we? clearly those guys were rebel mages ( despite not wanting to rebels but thats besides the point ) given that they were with the rest , Vivienne's loyalist mages didnt go to redcliff, i cant tell you exactly where they stay but if you talk to Vivienne when recruiting her ( or during your first convo with her ) she tells you about them.
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