776 réponses à ce sujet

[lyin321]

You mean if Vivienne could stop you from kicking her out?

If you use enough force and violence, perhaps not. But if you're on your own in her room, threatening her... knowing Vivienne, you better not

 

  Oh yes that would be something that can only happen in fanfiction unfortunately. Tho with how ,this time, the companions are aware of their specializations maybe she considers being KE give her enought power/hidden tricks for her to be able to more than match you....ah well - my Reaver vs her KE will only be in my head for now...../sigh 

 Would have been nice challenge....nah I am joking. Poor woman won't even be able to get in an attack:)

[bas_kon]

I kind of dislike her. I only recruited her in my first playthrough and even in that one, I gave up talking to her after the first conversation in Skyhold because I just hated how my inquisitor went all derpy and couldn't debate mage freedom properly and just repeated mages should be free like a maniac.

 

At the end of the day, the reason why I dislike Vivienne has nothing to do with her character or her ideas (both are interesting). It's because of how all the characters, especially mine, are written to interact with her, as if they suddenly lost all their IQ. I would really have liked if the inquisitor at least, had been written able to challenge her views by at least trying to give coherent arguments. As it is right now: you either agree, ignore her or lose your ability to form sentences around her.

 

So since I want to keep my inquisitors in character and I don't/won't have any who defends circles or the existence of templars, her deepest fear, "irrelevance", comes true in all my playthroughs lol. Plus, I love how the inquisitor rejects her help after she kills someone for him lol.

[Saricc]

She's a mage that never had to experience the horrors of living in a not so mage friendly circle, and all she wants to do is bring back those circles which will continue the suffering of mages... I'd say she's one of the most evil characters in the game. 

[Rifneno]

To be fair, Vivienne's attitude is very much a result of the sort of lifestyle she's used to. You don't survive for very long in Orlais if you don't play the Game, and that is essentially what she's doing. She has her own motivations and goals which is what makes her interesting - far more than the characters that simply fawn over everything the player character does, in my opinion.

Nopenopenope. She is not "playing the game" with the Inquisitor, or if she is then she's unspeakably awful at it. Go back to the Winter Palace and see how the game works. You're supposed to be subtle, you're never supposed to be blunt, and while it's okay to call someone out on their BS, you're not supposed to be a condescending douchebag. "Blunt" is the second to first word I'd use to describe Vivienne (I can't repeat the first one on a family forum) and it's what you're NEVER supposed to be in the game.

Make sense..and I am happy that it have the option for you to be "Whatever - be childish. I am out of here. I have more important things to do." But where is the choice for us to kick her (maybe cunning rogue can outsmart her?)? I can picture the scene:
 The cam is suddenly in the courtyard looking up and we see and follow the flight of one hairless female human....before she go "splat":))
 Beautifull....
....but the game was probably already too big and BW chose to ignore that little option...oh well...DLC I hope....

This. It's positively absurd that you can't kick her out when she's literally challenging you. Hell, kicking her out of the Inquisition is the nicest reaonable response to that. Some characters would have her head for that kind of insubordination.

Nah... that wouldn't be a fitting way for Vivienne to go. 
Granted, I don't see Vivienne going anyway, even if you 'insisted on it'. So maybe that's why BioWare never gave us the option.

You don't understand how the chain of command works. That's a statement, not a question.

[TheLittleBird]

You don't understand how the chain of command works. That's a statement, not a question.

 

I do. But I don't see Vivienne abiding by it, were the Inquisitor to decide to kick her out. 

 

Nopenopenope. She is not "playing the game" with the Inquisitor, or if she is then she's unspeakably awful at it. Go back to the Winter Palace and see how the game works. You're supposed to be subtle, you're never supposed to be blunt, and while it's okay to call someone out on their BS, you're not supposed to be a condescending douchebag. "Blunt" is the second to first word I'd use to describe Vivienne (I can't repeat the first one on a family forum) and it's what you're NEVER supposed to be in the game.

 

Vivienne's behavior is a result of her playing the Game. It's not her literally playing the Game. It's the arrogance, confidence and high self-esteem that a player must have, which she possesses both as a member of the court as well as a member of the Inquisition.

[Rifneno]

I do. But I don't see Vivienne abiding by it, were the Inquisitor to decide to kick her out.

I repeat: You don't understand how the chain of command works. Do you think Vivienne can take on the entire Inquisition at once? Because that's what she has to do to not take orders. He doesn't have to ask her nicely to leave. He just has to casually say to Cullen "get that filthy maleficar out of my castle."

[Petrikles]

I have just met her the first time with my shabby, native indian looking Dalish Elf. Man did I feel behumbled by her air of superiority. And not necessarily in a mean way. It was like more, a bunny being scrutinized by a snake which tries to be friendly to the bunny. Awesome scene! Those little perfect moments make me almost forget the shabby overall plot.

[KaiserShep]

I do. But I don't see Vivienne abiding by it, were the Inquisitor to decide to kick her out. 

 

Vivienne's not stupid. The Inquisitor has a Seeker, a number of former Templars and either a full force of rebel mages or more Templars at her/his disposal on top of regular soldiers. Heck, the Inquisitor could even just ask Scout Harding to give her a love tap in the back of the skull from a distance. She would probably express her disappointment and leave peacefully.

[TheLittleBird]

I repeat: You don't understand how the chain of command works. Do you think Vivienne can take on the entire Inquisition at once? Because that's what she has to do to not take orders. He doesn't have to ask her nicely to leave. He just has to casually say to Cullen "get that filthy maleficar out of my castle."

 

Vivienne's not stupid. The Inquisitor has a Seeker, a number of former Templars and either a full force of rebel mages or more Templars at her/his disposal on top of regular soldiers. Heck, the Inquisitor could even just ask Scout Harding to give her a love tap in the back of the skull from a distance. She would probably express her disappointment and leave peacefully.

 

Of course. If you threaten with force/bring force then yes, she'll be gone before you know it. After she's thrown a well-mannered and possibly truthful insult your way, naturally. 

 

I'm just saying that if you go up to her and say "You don't fit the Inquisition", then by all means, she won't just back down and leave, tail between her legs. She's obviously willing to go quite far in passive-aggressively confronting the Inquisitor. 

 

If I didn't make that clear enough, then my apologies.

[AutumnWitch]

If I didn't need her for the high Dragon battles I would have never used her. She was cool at the Ball as well. But if I had the ability I would have sent her back.

 

She did have nice cleavage tho...

[ZoliCs]

Vivienne's not stupid. The Inquisitor has a Seeker, a number of former Templars and either a full force of rebel mages or more Templars at her/his disposal on top of regular soldiers. Heck, the Inquisitor could even just ask Scout Harding to give her a love tap in the back of the skull from a distance. She would probably express her disappointment and leave peacefully.

 

Or the Inquisitor could just open a Rift in her stupid ***

[MrGDL87]

 

That reminds me of something I wrote...shoot, back in April I think.  Looking back, I think I really nailed the tone of the banter between Sera and Vivienne as what ended up being shown in the game.  The concept behind the imagined banter was that Sera had heard about the Elder/Poet Tree, and had proceeded to annoy the entire party with it.  I have a few, but this one comes to mind.

 

Spoiler

Sera: A lovely young lass for me to see.  What brings you here to the Poet Tree?

 

Viviene: <laughs> I do not think you wish to do this.

 

Sera: Nonsense, with my little rhymes I love to play.  Come, join me on this fine and lovely day!

 

Vivi: Very well then, since you insist my dear.

 

Sera: <squee!>

 

Vivi: I know this game of rhymes you seek.  'Tis not a game meant for the faint and for the weak.

 

Sera: Show me what you can do.  Do you have more wit than is in a shoe?

 

Vivi: Let us begin.  

 

Vivi: I see a young elf so full of humor and sass.  I would be too, if I had no chest and a flat ass.

 

Sera: Wait, what...

 

Vivi: Your hair is like brittle straw, though I am sure women in the dark do not see that fatal flaw.

 

Sera: Hey, hold on now...

 

Vivi: Now now dear, it is only for a laugh.  I can smell you from here, so please do take a bath.

 

Sera: WHAT?!?

 

Vivi: What is the matter with this little game?  I told you I would win one and the same.

 

Sera: Wait, but I have...but I didn't...just one second here...hey!

 

Cass: <doubled over with laughter>

 

Varric: Ah, Madame, you never cease to amaze me.  Shall we be off, everyone?

 

Vivi: Oh yes.  Little Sera, it was much fun.  We should do this again sometime, no?

 

Sera: <mumbles something not nice about Vivi's mother>

 

Vivi: What was that, dear?

 

Sera: Nothing.

 

 

^^This is brilliant  and the tone is spot on (which is impressive as this was done before release).

 

As a Vivienne supporter, I am amazed that I keep coming to this thread (I guess it is like 'car crash TV' as I can't resist the urge to look) but I am glad that I do because there are some brilliant posts.

 

I even enjoy reading some of the negative Vivienne posts, just for the different viewpoints. However, my love for Vivienne as a character is still steadfast.  

[KaiserShep]

Or the Inquisitor could just open a Rift in her stupid ***

 

The Inquisitor could do this, but likely it wouldn't come to that. It'd be funny to wave the hand around and have the crackling magic coming off of the mark as a warning though.

[ZoliCs]

The Inquisitor could do this, but likely it wouldn't come to that. It'd be funny to wave the hand around and have the crackling magic coming off of the mark as a warning though.

Just sayin'...the Inquisitor can do his/her own dirty work

[Ogillardetta]

 

 

 

 

Of course. If you threaten with force/bring force then yes, she'll be gone before you know it. After she's thrown a well-mannered and possibly truthful insult your way, naturally. 

 

I'm just saying that if you go up to her and say "You don't fit the Inquisition", then by all means, she won't just back down and leave, tail between her legs. She's obviously willing to go quite far in passive-aggressively confronting the Inquisitor. 

 

If I didn't make that clear enough, then my apologies.

 

I don't have a problem with Vivianne myself but if she wouldnt listen to the quizzy when he/she ask her to leave can't the quizzy just put her in the dungeon give her prisoner clothes and serve gruel and water for dinner everyday and if she complained the quizzy would say "You told me you wanted to stay didn't you?"  If they really where on bad terms I mean.

[TheLittleBird]

I don't have a problem with Vivianne myself but if she wouldnt listen to the quizzy when he/she ask her to leave can't the quizzy just put her in the dungeon give her prisoner clothes and serve gruel and water for dinner everyday and if she complained the quizzy would say "You told me you wanted to stay didn't you?"  If they really where on bad terms I mean.

 

Sure.

If the Inquisitor is evil. And BioWare gives us unlimited roleplaying possibilities. 

[KaiserShep]

I don't have a problem with Vivianne myself but if she wouldnt listen to the quizzy when he/she ask her to leave can't the quizzy just put her in the dungeon give her prisoner clothes and serve gruel and water for dinner everyday and if she complained the quizzy would say "You told me you wanted to stay didn't you?"  If they really where on bad terms I mean.

 

Frumpy commoner clothes would probably tear into her soul.

[Lulupab]

And yet Vivs outcome as Divine is one of the best for Mage Sympathisers.

Let's just say she puts that Moron Fiona in her place at last.

 

Vivienne does exactly what Fiona always wanted. Autonomy of circles and independence from Templars. Indeed this was her initial offer with her vote in events of asunder.

 

When Vivienne calls her "Malcontent" in truth she means: gtfo b|tch you were my superior and I was mad, now I have power. Then she goes on and does what Fiona wanted.

[TheLittleBird]

Vivienne does exactly what Fiona always wanted. Autonomy of circles and independence from Templars. Indeed this was her initial offer with her vote in events of asunder.

 

When Vivienne calls her "Malcontent" in truth she means: gtfo b|tch you were my superior and I was mad, now I have power. Then she goes on and does what Fiona wanted.

 

Are you sure she really does that? I know her epilogue slide speaks of the Circle mages having more freedom and responsibility than ever before, but the Circle system still is there, and Vivienne does create a new Templar Order. The epilogue says that this order is "firmly leashed to her hand", sure, but does that mean the Circles really are independent from them?

[Lulupab]

Are you sure she really does that? I know her epilogue slide speaks of the Circle mages having more freedom and responsibility than ever before, but the Circle system still is there, and Vivienne does create a new Templar Order. The epilogue says that this order is "firmly leashed to her hand", sure, but does that mean the Circles really are independent from them?

 

Fiona never wanted to disband circles. She wanted mages to govern themselves and be more free inside the circles and she didn't want anyone meddle with their life. Vivienne does the same, the way I see it she makes the the Templars glorified watch dogs responsible only when something goes wrong inside the circles.

 

Vivienne usually approves when you bad mouth the Templars in the game. She says she thinks someone must do what they do but she doesn't like them any more than the next mage.

[mikeymoonshine]

Are you sure she really does that? I know her epilogue slide speaks of the Circle mages having more freedom and responsibility than ever before, but the Circle system still is there, and Vivienne does create a new Templar Order. The epilogue says that this order is "firmly leashed to her hand", sure, but does that mean the Circles really are independent from them?

 

Well they aren't controlled by them at least other than through her. I guess it all depends on how it works and if it works. 

[MrGDL87]

I don't have a problem with Vivianne myself but if she wouldnt listen to the quizzy when he/she ask her to leave can't the quizzy just put her in the dungeon give her prisoner clothes and serve gruel and water for dinner everyday and if she complained the quizzy would say "You told me you wanted to stay didn't you?"  If they really where on bad terms I mean.

 

If this did happen, I would want Vivienne to shout barbed insults from her cell.  (Even drowning out the War Drums)

 

For example:

 

Vivienne: Inquisitor darling, you talk a great deal about the mages plight to gain independence but here you are locking a mage up.

Inquisitor: This has nothing to do with you being a mage. It is about you being a b****. Here's you five star dinner my lady. *Gives Gruel*

Vivienne: Surprisingly this prison cell has more style than the entirety of Skyhold  

[Ogillardetta]

Well they aren't controlled by them at least other than through her. I guess it all depends on how it works and if it works. 

Yeah I got some kind of "new tevinter" ending with her controlling the templars, templars stopped taking lyrium felt like I screwed the world more than I saved it.

[LOLandStuff]

I find her giving mages more freedom just a way to make them shut up and stop complaining.

In the end, she's a woman who likes power and be in control but is careful to please others enough not to freak out and go bonkers.

[TheLittleBird]

Fiona never wanted to disband circles. She wanted mages to govern themselves and be more free inside the circles and she didn't want anyone meddle with their life. Vivienne does the same, the way I see it she makes the the Templars glorified watch dogs responsible only when something goes wrong inside the circles.

 

Vivienne usually approves when you bad mouth the Templars in the game. She says she thinks someone must do what they do but she doesn't like them any more than the next mage.

 

Ah... your initial comment implied a total independence from the Templars, is all.

 

And it all comes down to how you look at it, really. I mean, Inquisition-Fiona has, arguably, made some pretty stupid mistakes in dealing with the overall conflict. And her role in actively breaking away from the Chantry and starting the rebellion isn't something Vivienne is very fond of. Sure, Fiona did have some good ideas at first, that are in line with what Vivienne actually (wants to) achieve(s), but it's what came after that Vivienne seems to have a real problem with.