24 réponses à ce sujet

[jdmteggy4life]

is it worth using and upgrading?

[cJohnOne]

Some say no because they are comparing it to dealhblow but where else do you get 400% weapon damage?  I think it looks cool too.

[ironhorse384]

If you were to have it fully upgraded with a fully upgraded death blow with a +10 stamina amulet. You could stealth 20 stamina- shadow strike 40 stamina- deathblow 50 stamina and if you finish off the target you get 50 stamina back from the dance of death passive. Also if you take Looked like it hurt off the sabotage tree you get 10 stamina back for each crit so you could do some pretty big damage while replenishing your stamina.

[Quixim]

Deathblow is badly bugged - the second swipe takes off an additional 50 stamina, and it won't regen stamina with dance of death. It's useless right now until that's patched.

 

Shadow Strike is only really useful for being a detonator or lowering cooldown times. I'm actually considering taking it out in exchange for throwing blades, just becuase I never use it, and my rogue has trouble closing in sometimes.

[Geth Supremacy]

I hate it with a passion.  It misses constantly.  I'm talking behind someone and LOCKED ON and it whiffs.  never using that garbage again.  I thought it was going to be great and it looks like it is, but the me the application is terrible.

[konnect13123]

I'm actually restarting my dw/assassin because Shadow strike does not crit from stealth, refresh stealth on kill or give stamina regen from dance of death. Alot of people has it on in their builds when it works properly.

[konnect13123]

I restarted a new file and after getting to skyhold i tested shadow strike to see if it was working properly with Cole. Nope. Going back to tempest, don't understand how I'm the only rogue on the planet with this issue.

[konnect13123]

It actually refreshes the cooldown on stealth when your character is not already in stealth. If you have a high Crit chance you will crit with it the majority of the time, but its not an auto crit.

[Zenthar Aseth]

Deathblow is badly bugged - the second swipe takes off an additional 50 stamina, and it won't regen stamina with dance of death. It's useless right now until that's patched.

 

Shadow Strike is only really useful for being a detonator or lowering cooldown times. I'm actually considering taking it out in exchange for throwing blades, just becuase I never use it, and my rogue has trouble closing in sometimes.

Deathblow... useless? What.

[Blackstork]

I like it on tempest. It's must have actually, because 5 hits with flask of fire = -20 secs to any cooldown except flask of fire. 

It is also cheap shatterer, and it also CC and works amazingly well versus hi mobile targets, like terrors, spellbinders, despair demons etc. , esp. as tempest who can spam it and cc-lock with it.

People understimate it.

You do not need one on Artificer.

You do not need one on end game Assasin (its ok pick at start of the game tho, esp. it comes right after 2 must have spells which are key to start game (evade and kp))

You really want SS this stuff as end-game Tempest, because reducing CDs to flasks, stealth and whatever you have , and having one spammable detonator is good stuff to have.

It's also good to use with Mercy Killing vs sleeping/panicked targets, from stealth. It does auto-crit then.

[Rynas]

I like it on tempest. It's must have actually, because 5 hits with flask of fire = -20 secs to any cooldown except flask of fire. 

It is also cheap shatterer, and it also CC and works amazingly well versus hi mobile targets, like terrors, spellbinders, despair demons etc. , esp. as tempest who can spam it and cc-lock with it.

People understimate it.

You do not need one on Artificer.

You do not need one on end game Assasin (its ok pick at start of the game tho, esp. it comes right after 2 must have spells which are key to start game (evade and kp))

You really want SS this stuff as end-game Tempest, because reducing CDs to flasks, stealth and whatever you have , and having one spammable detonator is good stuff to have.

It's also good to use with Mercy Killing vs sleeping/panicked targets, from stealth. It does auto-crit then.

 

Yep, I agree, SS is one of the more useful attacks (at least with Deathblow bugged).  Also doesn't depend on flanking for full damage bonus, which can help sometimes when soloing.  Plus, if you finish off a low-health enemy with it, they go flying into the stratosphere.  That alone makes it worth it.

[Selea]

I like it on tempest. It's must have actually, because 5 hits with flask of fire = -20 secs to any cooldown except flask of fire. 

It is also cheap shatterer, and it also CC and works amazingly well versus hi mobile targets, like terrors, spellbinders, despair demons etc. , esp. as tempest who can spam it and cc-lock with it.

People understimate it.

You do not need one on Artificer.

You do not need one on end game Assasin (its ok pick at start of the game tho, esp. it comes right after 2 must have spells which are key to start game (evade and kp))

You really want SS this stuff as end-game Tempest, because reducing CDs to flasks, stealth and whatever you have , and having one spammable detonator is good stuff to have.

It's also good to use with Mercy Killing vs sleeping/panicked targets, from stealth. It does auto-crit then.

I'm sorry but there's something I don't quite understand. Where do you fit SS in the build you always speak about?

1. FoL
2. FoFi
3. FoFo
4. Stealth
5. Evade
6. Knockout Powder
7. Twin Fangs
8. Thousand Cuts

Where the hell do you have the place to put SS in there? Do you remove Thousand Cuts, the best Focus skill in the game and the best skill on a Tempest build (especially with the FoFi glitch)?

It is already a lot of time that I understood that you are talking more about theorycrafting than real practice and this is another clear evidence of this. It's obvious that there's something that doesn't quite add up on what you are saying.

P.S: The only way is to remove Evade but from what you said above it's clear you take it (and already this is quite strange since you have enough skills points to take both evade/ambush and mercy killing along the Tempest skills and DW ones only on late game...)

[Blackstork]

I'm sorry but there's something I don't quite understand. Where do you fit SS in the build you always speak about?

1. FoL
2. FoFi
3. FoFo
4. Stealth
5. Evade
6. Knockout Powder
7. Twin Fangs
8. Thousand Cuts

Where the hell do you have the place to put SS in there? Do you remove Thousand Cuts, the best Focus skill in the game and the best skill on a Tempest build (especially with the FoFi glitch)?

It is already a lot of time that I understood that you are talking more about theorycrafting than real practice and this is another clear evidence of this. It's obvious that there's something that doesn't quite add up on what you are saying.

P.S: The only way is to remove Evade but from what you said above it's clear you take it (and already this is quite strange since you have enough skills points to take both evade/ambush and mercy killing along the Tempest skills and DW ones only on late game...)

 

The end game can swap, because as you said, evade is optional, and not neccesary, and you have enough points to have it, and it leads to nice passive, anyways.. 

If i  would solo, i would take FA with me over TF, and SS over TF.

I also have majority of time SS on.

There is some reason in respeccing for certain parts of game , 300+ gold is easiesrt thing to farm. 

For Suledin i would drop KP, and slap both TF and FA in. FoF FA spam is quite good stuff which can save you while you damage stuff if things really hairy.

 

SS is main skill i almost always have on. Evade , KP and TF  - one of them replaced by SS all the time, while other two drawn from pool of FA, TF and KP and Evade.

 

Evade is vital at start of the game and with certain bosses. Some encounters will be nice with SS / KP spam, and then FoFr and FoL. 

 

BTW - you are quite agressive dude. You must have some medicine / drugs / being laid down in order to calm. Chill out boy, its all ok, no one hurting you, so stop being  so agressive and drop that i"i am lone light and you are dark shitheads" attitude.

You keep screaming "you are ****" like stuff, and behave like un-educated child. C'mon, activate some imagination, brains and start thinking in order to understand  how people do things. And tip - you do not need to be overly agressive during that. Keep that smoke out.

 

Tempest need some minmaxing and imagination, the thing that i am not sure if you have one or not. I've also explained approach. It's simple, Have MK by Default. Have KP by default. Have SS by default. You devloping you character and that list of skills will shuffle alot during your play. The end joice is depends on encounter, and later in game you can allow possesing of such set by yourself.

All flasks are DPS abilities. They , in addition to it, provide great utility , and allow your sustain not only in dps form but also in utility(cc)/survival.  SS is always good, mainly because this skill decreases your CD by 20 secs, and ive mentioned that in other thread where you gone agressive and **** on my posts, mentioned that at least once. It's always better to spam it as Tempest. TF is good as compensation and extra detonator if  evade/KP are useless in circumstances.

Evade often is reundant, but sometimes, and before you get to skyhold is invaluable.

FA is must have if you are solo and when you need more safety. It is re-stealther, which is also can be spammed during FoFi if things are really really hairy. Its very optional if you run 4 man party with tank.

After skyhold, Evade drops from your bar, and come back for some things later, anways you path through it to get Ambush.

TF is replacing KP, if KP is reundant and MK wont work. Depending on encounters/party comp you can prefer extra safety (FA, which is often reundant) or TF (pure damage and + shatterer)

In ideal circumstances in regular 4 man nm party you better running with TF and SS by default.

More danger comes - a quick re-stealth have more argument to jump into bar. 

And Evade and FA are both about safety so, they never tanken both, except solo run perhaps (i still have to reach skyhold, i am not there yet)

This leavs you with certain SS, almost certain KP and TF. 

Mix safety (FA and Evade) if required.

FA & Evade is absolute must pre-skyhold, cause you have not those shiny tempest tools yet.

To summarize:

1. FoL
2. FoFi
3. FoFo
4. Stealth
5. Shadow Strike
6. Knockout Powder
7. Twin Fangs
8. Thousand Cuts

 

FA and Evade are absolute must pre-spec, and are optional depending on your party/ complexity and circumstances.

FA is absolute must but wont save you  (as well as Stealth in general) vs perceptive on solo, as KP wont save you vs undead. 

 

SS is ase ability which defines whole build. 

You decrease CDs on all stuff if you can spam it for quite alot. 

It brings you your defining abilities, as well dps abilities and stealth much closer.

-20 sec CD is what makes this build happy.

[Quixim]

Deathblow... useless? What.

Deathblow's second attack also takes 50 stamina, making it take up a total of 100 stamina. Also, neither it nor twin flanks activate the +50 stamina-on-kill bonus from that ability, making it impossible to use to clean up a battlefield full of weakened stragglers

[aznricepuff]

Deathblow's second attack also takes 50 stamina, making it take up a total of 100 stamina. Also, neither it nor twin flanks activate the +50 stamina-on-kill bonus from that ability, making it impossible to use to clean up a battlefield full of weakened stragglers

 

Funny, I never experienced either of those bugs. However I did have a bug where Deathblow was triggering 0 cooldown on a killing blow even without the upgrade.

[Quixim]

Huh! It might be patched, but I've seen a lot of people complaining about it and it never really works well for me. I still have the perk becuase other attacks trigger it, at least.

[Aurok]

I like Shadow Strike a lot. Reduces cooldowns and often knocks enemies down, which amuses me if they were just getting back up from being knocked down already.

[Juniper Mucius]

I got it because people were saying it was a great skill.

 

But the damn ability keeps whiffing. Constantly. Which of course takes me out of stealth. It's really annoying me how much it misses.

[lastpawn]

I like it. I learned to work around the weird hitbox. Despite consistently missing moving enemies, it's one of the few abilities that consistently hits enemies on the ground. The upgrade helps with some specs.

 

On Nightmare, my DW Rogue skills are:

 

Shadow Strike, Deathblow, Stealth, Knockout Powder, 3 Flasks, Thousand Cuts. I feel like this works well.

 

But the real reason I use it is because occasionally I get a slow-mo of my Inquisitor uppercutting an enemy 20 feet up into the air. As Iron Bull would say, BADASS.

[Selea]

SS is ase ability which defines whole build. 

You decrease CDs on all stuff if you can spam it for quite alot. 

It brings you your defining abilities, as well dps abilities and stealth much closer.

-20 sec CD is what makes this build happy.

 

Hmmm, interesting. I never thought about the synergy of SS with FoFi  as I didn't suppose the CD reduction on SS to stack and I don't either know if it's a bug (i.e. the devs didn't think about the combination so they didn't code the possibility out) or if it is right to work that way, sincerely.

Anyway I will have to try it out.

[Blackstork]

Hmmm, interesting. I never thought about the synergy of SS with FoFi sincerely. I will have to try it out.

Finally. Thanks. Btw i mentioned this in that "tempest and assasin" thread at least once. I am sure you would not miss this point if you just had more friendly attitude to people with different oppinion/experience than yours.

[Selea]

Finally. Thanks. Btw i mentioned this in that "tempest and assasin" thread at least once. I am sure you would not miss this point if you just had more friendly attitude to people with different oppinion/experience than yours.

 

I "missed" it because, as I said, I didn't suppose for SS to stack (and in fact, as I repeat, I don't either know if it is a bug for it to work in this way or not) because in other circumstances, and differently from other skills that are meant to actively stack to reduce CDs on the whole, SS has a normal CD that prevents the stacking (and 4 seconds of CD reduction, if stacked, is a lot - other skills that stacks to reduce CDs have a max of 1 sec reduction; for this I don't know if the devs actually considered the use under FoFi and removed the possibility in case).

Anyway, even with SS reducing CDs (and -20 is optimal) you still don't have the damage output of an Assassin good build on average (i.e. taking in consideration all the situations and making an estimate based on it) . Surely it comes near and/or on par and in certain cases even be better by using SS with FoFi (as for example when enemies are clustered and not immune to sleep for KP), however, that's true.

[Blackstork]

I "missed" it because, as I said, I didn't suppose for SS to stack (and in fact, as I repeat, I don't either know if it is a bug for it to work in this way or not) because in other circumstances and differently from other skills that are meant to do this, SS has a normal CD that prevent to stack but this is circumvented by using it along FoFi.

Anyway, even with SS reducing CDs (and -20 is optimal) you still don't have the damage output of an Assassin good build on average (i.e. taking in consideration all the situations and making an estimate based on it) . Surely it comes near and/or on par and in certain cases even be better by using SS with FoFi (as for example when enemies are clustered and not immune to sleep for KP), however, that's true.

I never said , in true, that Tempest > Assasin, just that Tempest have own means to close gaps, and could be more useful in pre-end game in some circumstances where Assasin can not act openly and bee agresive (alot of mages/ranged around, hight mobility targets)

I would never be able to kil ldragon in 3 seconds, but there alot of game before that end-game maxed point, where Tempest have softer time than assasin, and the process of the game is what matters.

And i said that they are complementing classes, and not actually to be compared in general, simply because they are different role/approach. And better to be used together. 

At least few times. 

 

SS is also stunlock (esp versus high mobility targets like despairs, terrors, spellbinders, and works well as spammed shatterer too. I've mentioned that as well. Few times, in that thread.

 

Considering also that you can spam it versus Elites/some bosses who under affect of upgraded jar of bees and score consecutive crits is also nice stuff.

 

Also this provides quick re-stealth ability, even if you do not have FA. Thats why FA is only option if you duo/solo and have many ranged enemies which are danger when you slap some cc'ed target. 

SS is bread and butter skill for Tempest. 

[Bhaal]

Since i'm doing seperate rogue/NM play-throughs, and yes i'm making 2 different play-through one with tempest one with assasin because sometimes i got angry with one and say "f**k it other class is better!" just to say the same thing again and return back.

 

Anyway, there are times doing tremendous damages with assasin gets me high, like during my very first dragon fight at Exalted Marches when she killed my party and still had %40ish HP, i went berserk, how i evaded her attacks, how it runs in pain and terror from me after the bursts... Knowing she couldn't win... I'm still getting warm and fuzzy inside....

 

However after that glorious moment i repaired the bridge in Exalted Marches and went to fight undead, man i almost crushed my keyboard in madness. Dealing with too many stupid mobs was causing gaps between my bursts and horrible hit-box and targeting mechanics weren't helping either. And then Arcane Horror, that a...hole with his 30k hp and getting invisible at every second... It was imposible to perform any decent burst on him and those archers with their psychic targetings there...

 

I return to my tempest save went there and boy how things changed... Tempest rather feels like a arcane warrior compared to assasin, that flexibility while still retaining some bursts... Being able to freeze time, freeze enemy, or stunlock enemies... such utility is priceless.

 

Anyway feeling like a god again went to the dragon and managed to kill it but it took some time and i didn't dominated it like i did with Assasin... Somehow i felt hollow inside and return to my assasin.

 

Lesson here? Assasin is THE damage dealer of the game but there are times it doesn't work as it should. Even though this is mosty due to bad game mechanics (try to flank one of those desert rhinos in Hissing Wastes) and horrible desing of some enemy(i hate you arcane horror) and these are problems that haunt all DW rogues...

 

Tempest adds 3 utility skills that allow you to bypass or ignore those problems (Are you trying to escape Arcane horror? Here; i'm using FoL now, yess... now your body is all mine for the next 9 seconds     ) and this changes everything.

[Blackstork]

Since i'm doing seperate rogue/NM play-throughs, and yes i'm making 2 different play-through one with tempest one with assasin because sometimes i got angry with one and say "f**k it other class is better!" just to say the same thing again and return back.

 

Anyway, there are times doing tremendous damages with assasin gets me high, like during my very first dragon fight at Exalted Marches when she killed my party and still had %40ish HP, i went berserk, how i evaded her attacks, how it runs in pain and terror from me after the bursts... Knowing she couldn't win... I'm still getting warm and fuzzy inside....

 

However after that glorious moment i repaired the bridge in Exalted Marches and went to fight undead, man i almost crushed my keyboard in madness. Dealing with too many stupid mobs was causing gaps between my bursts and horrible hit-box and targeting mechanics weren't helping either. And then Arcane Horror, that a...hole with his 30k hp and getting invisible at every second... It was imposible to perform any decent burst on him and those archers with their psychic targetings there...

 

I return to my tempest save went there and boy how things changed... Tempest rather feels like a arcane warrior compared to assasin, that flexibility while still retaining some bursts... Being able to freeze time, freeze enemy, or stunlock enemies... such utility is priceless.

 

Anyway feeling like a god again went to the dragon and managed to kill it but it took some time and i didn't dominated it like i did with Assasin... Somehow i felt hollow inside and return to my assasin.

 

Lesson here? Assasin is THE damage dealer of the game but there are times it doesn't work as it should. Even though this is mosty due to bad game mechanics(hit box, targeting etc.) and horrible desing of the some enemy(i hate you arcane horror) and these are problems that haunt all DW rogues...

 

Tempest adds 3 utility skills that allow you to bypass or ignore those problems (Are you trying escape Arcane horror? Here i'm using FoL now, yessss... now your body is all mine for the next 9 seconds     ) and this changes everything.

Thanks Mate.

 

@Selea - that was exactly my point across few threads around, where you went offencive on me. 

You see, i am not alone. And its not like Assasin > Tempest. They fit different boxes. 

 

This thread and that "tempest vs assasin" one should be merged to show all the nonsence of that your offense.

You see, people see things like that , not only me, while i have some experience, and you misjudged Tempest in some points.

If you go to start of "tempest vs assasin" thread, you will find this, and the fact that much of your offence and agressive showcase of your lack to be tolerant to different oppinion could be avoided.