You do understand how incredibly silly it is to proclaim that if a group thinks something you don't like, the only reason anybody would agree with it is because the group does?
Perhaps you should 'think for yourself' instead of praising nonconformity.
Chaos or Order in all things - the central question of most RPGs.
I don't promote religion. However, I do appreciate when others appear to more freely choose to follow a religion, but do so in a comparatively less harmful way than fundamentalism, and focus on good works that I regard good works. I'd never call it my ideal, but I do think it is a more free society than if I strictly enforced my atheism on everyone.
I pretty much agree with all of this (OH NO, NOT THINKING FOR SELF, *NODS HEAD*).
This is even true when dealing with children and their parents. The parent may assuage themselves with good notions about telling the child things when they're 'ready', but their ability as the arbiter of 'when they are ready' is so often faulty that it is laughable. In the end, it is the parent's laziness why they don't tell (or at least translate downwards) the information about the world to a questioning child, and so I've seen it go with religion. The arbiters suck, and the organization is lazy, and there's not enough of a shared back and forth of questions and answers and communication, that the system stagnates and can barely adapt to anything.
I'm gonna stop before this goes far enough for locking.
Ah I see where you are going with it. I do agree. I have very little issues with those who are faithful, but don't necessarily subscribe to their church. I mean we see some great examples of that in DA games. Cullen and Cassie are both good characters that start to realize where the chantry has led them. In some ways starting to break those barriers and come out with a more clear understanding of the world in which they live. I appreciate Leilana in some ways because I think she actually wants to do good in the world, but relies so heavily on guidance instead of following her instincts. Really I can't blame her, her instincts are all messed up because of the abuse she suffered.
I definitely don't think anyone should be "forced" to be atheist or anything. I just think organized religion should be discouraged because it heavily leads to groups that can have pretty dang harmful outcomes. I don't doubt that qun or chantry wasn't established for a good reason, but hell is paved with good intentions. When you start putting in the idea of holy callings and events...well people get a little messed up in the head. That isn't to say it can't happen with countries or other communities because obviously we see that in Thedas too. The difference though is one happens in reality and the other defies it. It is much harder to prove a negative, that's what the chantry/qun are. That is far more likely to create the zealotry that will not end. While when it happens because the Orlesians are feeling frisky it is much easier to prove that it is indeed harmful because it is set in reality. We can see the cause and effect. We can see the outcome. While the outcome for religious zealotry is often delayed until it no longer matters, death. That kind of hard line makes it difficult to convince people to stop their behavior because ultimately they believe something better will happen to them. The only thing that can prove them wrong is death. Kind of hard concept to explain and I'm working off of pain killers, but I hope that makes sense.
Agree 100% about the parent thing. I'm so glad my parents were brutally honest with me, but yes you nailed exactly the issues I see with it are.
With a fiery passion. Mostly due to their stance on conversion. If it was optional, I would simply disagree with it rather than want to burn the whole thing to the ground.
Ah I see where you are going with it. I do agree. I have very little issues with those who are faithful, but don't necessarily subscribe to their church. I mean we see some great examples of that in DA games. Cullen and Cassie are both good characters that start to realize where the chantry has led them. In some ways starting to break those barriers and come out with a more clear understanding of the world in which they live. I appreciate Leilana in some ways because I think she actually wants to do good in the world, but relies so heavily on guidance instead of following her instincts. Really I can't blame her, her instincts are all messed up because of the abuse she suffered.
I definitely don't think anyone should be "forced" to be atheist or anything. I just think organized religion should be discouraged because it heavily leads to groups that can have pretty dang harmful outcomes. I don't doubt that qun or chantry wasn't established for a good reason, but hell is paved with good intentions. When you start putting in the idea of holy callings and events...well people get a little messed up in the head. That isn't to say it can't happen with countries or other communities because obviously we see that in Thedas too. The difference though is one happens in reality and the other defies it. It is much harder to prove a negative, that's what the chantry/qun are. That is far more likely to create the zealotry that will not end. While when it happens because the Orlesians are feeling frisky it is much easier to prove that it is indeed harmful because it is set in reality. We can see the cause and effect. We can see the outcome. While the outcome for religious zealotry is often delayed until it no longer matters, death. That kind of hard line makes it difficult to convince people to stop their behavior because ultimately they believe something better will happen to them. The only thing that can prove them wrong is death. Kind of hard concept to explain and I'm working off of pain killers, but I hope that makes sense.
Agree 100% about the parent thing. I'm so glad my parents were brutally honest with me, but yes you nailed exactly the issues I see with it are.
One last bit - when I say that parents are 'lazy', while many outright are ---- but many parents I'd even put down to a situational+biological laziness, and nothing that they're trying to do on purpose. We often do our best, and hope that's enough. Personally, I think we're just inept at it, compared to how good we could be, and our own biology goes against us here. We could teach so much better. We could learn so much better. Thus - my transhuman inclinations, ha.
if they could change that one aspect, I'd be all in.
I will go to great lengths to erase its practitioners as I find them.
I agree with the basic fundamental of the Qun. Everyone has a purpose, and that's wonderfully super awesome for the whole. Like a small cog part of a larger part, that's a piece in a complex machine. I'd join something like that if I felt like I had no where else to turn to. My problem with it is the severe lack of freedom. It's all very black and white, absolute certainty. I don't enjoy being told that's what I'm meant to do with my life, for the rest of my life. And the strict control of it... well, I saw what happened to the Arishok. No thank you!
As far as fictional social structures of fantasy settings go, I find the Qun more repugnant than the Whitecloaks and the Red Priests of R'hllor, but it is of equal or slightly less repugnance than the Grolims, the Chaipaku, the Cenerese and Jagang's Imperial Order.
The Qunari are a lot like a hivemind- everyone works for the greater good, the individual doesn't matter. And some countries do have that attitude. Not to the extent of the Qunari, but Americas 'personal freedom' view is rather new. It's kind of like communism, really. I like everyone getting to have a choice though, so I'm not a fan of the Qunari.
I respect the Qun but there is some points which i disagree
The Qun has no cookies.
This needs to be remedied
Cookies for qunari!
I used to like it but not any more. It's too sanitized now.
My experience in Dragon Age Origins consisted mostly of wishing I could wage war on the Chantry. I mostly achieved this by pissing in Andraste's ashes and killing Leliana. I also got into the habit of threatening the reverend mother in Lothering for the key to Sten's cage.... only to then NOT let Sten out of the cage... because I never needed him anyway (my party was almost always one rogue and the rest were mages, and Shale was a better tank if I needed one).
I did Sten's questline once... and once only... and nearly kicked him out of the party several times because he kept basically disagreeing with ALL of the things, and was constantly hating everything I said and did.... I had to exploit an approval glitch just to keep him around long enough to finish doing his thing once.
My experience in Dragon Age 2 consisted initially of hating the Chantry again, getting annoyed at Anders for not being atheist and not being as cool as he was in Awakening... and then the Qunari showed up... and suddenly everything was about hating the Qunari.
The most frustrating part was the bit where I couldn't do the anti-Qunari quests because it involved siding with the Chantry and I hated them too. There should have been a 3rd option to just wage war on both of them at the same time.
Oh yeah... then Fenris revealed that he spoke Qunari... so I sold him back to the Tevinters.
And every conversation with the Arishok was like pulling teeth because he spewed an endless torrent of WRONG out of his mouth at every given moment... and my party was easily powerful enough to wipe out his entire stronghold in an instant... but it wouldn't let me do so.
THEN I did the DLC thing... and found out the Elf was a Qunari agent... and spent the whole DLC trying to find ways to kill her... to no avail.
Also I found that Tal Vashoth were a thing. And suddenly I was all "YES! APOSTATES!" and was their bestest best friend... sort of...
Anyway... I killed the Arishok.
Then Anders blew up the Chantry and I got pissed off at him for kill-stealing (he shoulda let me do it).
Anyway... Dragon Age Inquisition came around.
I find that there is a Qunari team-member... and... I just don't hire him. Simple. =p If I ever hire him, it is probably only to see if there is some way to get him killed.
Iron-Bull can go shove it. Dude is hells of ugly anyway.
Apparently... so I was told.... you can make him go Tal Vashoth .... but frankly he is too fugly for me to want to bother. Besides, Blackwall is a better tank.
I don't hate the qunari, but I will take every opportunity to undermine them when I can.
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