535 réponses à ce sujet

[Crackseed]

Sure, you feel the effects of your help. Wandering through the Hinterlands you get a lot of feedback on your actions if you listen in on the conversations among the NPCs.

 

I'm also pretty sure we see some changes in more soldiers present, the healer you recruit from Redcliffe will show up, the general tone of the area changes, etc. There are other spots where your actions have noticeable changes, not counting the obvious stuff like claiming a Keep in specific zones. Exalted Plains - clearing out the infested areas and then blowing the horn brings in large chunks of Orlesian troops back to reclaim their forts.

[AllThatJazz]

Yeah and in Western Approach, you see the bridges and air filter things when you complete the operation to clear the gas, as well as soldiers guarding the perimeter.

[Natureguy85]

Sure, you feel the effects of your help. Wandering through the Hinterlands you get a lot of feedback on your actions if you listen in on the conversations among the NPCs.

 

I meant more than simple NPC lines as you walk by, but that is certainly something and better than nothing. I mean like seeing people just lying around shivering and broken buildings before you help, followed by the same people walking around more and rebuilding and repairing after you help. This makes the world more alive and dynamic.

[Crackseed]

I meant more than simple NPC lines as you walk by, but that is certainly something and better than nothing. I mean like seeing people just lying around shivering and broken buildings before you help, followed by the same people walking around more and rebuilding and repairing after you help. This makes the world more alive and dynamic.

 

They certainly could have done more in specific spots - Hinterlands is very subtle in the changes but as noted, there's some pretty drastic adjustments in quite a few zones as you make choices.

[Sondermann]

I meant more than simple NPC lines as you walk by, but that is certainly something and better than nothing. I mean like seeing people just lying around shivering and broken buildings before you help, followed by the same people walking around more and rebuilding and repairing after you help. This makes the world more alive and dynamic.

It's not just a few simple NPC lines. The "tone" of the area definitely changes to a degree that is impossible for the player to miss - and that is the main point IMO. Whether or not these changes are visible (they might, I'm not sure - well in one respect they are quite visible, but since you haven't played the game yet, I'm not going to spoil it) in my opinion is secondary.

The game gets the point across that your actions mattered.

[Natureguy85]

I'm also pretty sure we see some changes in more soldiers present, the healer you recruit from Redcliffe will show up, the general tone of the area changes, etc. There are other spots where your actions have noticeable changes, not counting the obvious stuff like claiming a Keep in specific zones. Exalted Plains - clearing out the infested areas and then blowing the horn brings in large chunks of Orlesian troops back to reclaim their forts.

 

 

It's not just a few simple NPC lines. The "tone" of the area definitely changes to a degree that is impossible for the player to miss - and that is the main point IMO. Whether or not these changes are visible (they might, I'm not sure - well in one respect they are quite visible, but since you haven't played the game yet, I'm not going to spoil it) in my opinion is secondary.

The game gets the point across that your actions mattered.

 

That's good to hear. That kind of thing is going to make the difference in whether I think the sidequests have enough substance or not.

[Nefla]

I see people stating they enjoy the current model, but how do you jump from that to backlash against including deeper content? Because no one seems to be saying that.

"I enjoy X" doesn't equal "and if you add some Y i'll whine and cry and SHUT UP ALREADY".

Yes, I'm getting that impression from people replying with only positives about the game, some getting defensive about the fetch quests and others simply stating "if you don't like them, don't do them" none of those reactions implies that they'd like "deeper content" added but as for the backlash, I was talking more about posts like this: http://forum.bioware...ain/?p=18087561 (which others agree with) that give off a hostile impression. Either way I was genuinely surprised that anyone, let alone so many people would be generally satisfied with the huge quantity of this kind of quest and the exclusion of quests that involve unique dungeons, cinematics, npcs to interact with in a more in-depth way, choices to make, etc...Personally I'm extremely disappointed with the side quests.

 

I can't believe you think that it is possible to rationally conclude that there is even one person in this thread who has stated that they prefer missions like "find shards" or "collect 3 bear pelts" to more story driven sidequests based on the posts in the thread.

 

Whether quests are story driven or fetch quests has nothing to do with whether a world is open or not - it is down to the individual quest design.

 

Are you, perchance, trying to set up a strawman by falsely falsely positing that many people have such preferences, or are there a number of posts espousing such desires that I have overlooked? And where exactly do you see all these many people who scoff at other people who want more story driven sidequests?

I wasn't trying for anything, just my impression given the many satisfied posts, a few aggressive or defensive posts, etc...See above.

 

There is no way one can rationally conclude that. With such understanding, no wonder some need cut-scenes after every quest to let them know what happened

I don't need a cutscene to know that I just lead a Druffalo across a river or killed 3 wyverns. If that's the level of depth 90% of the quests are going to have, then yes at least give us a reason to care.

 

You needed to collect the shards to unlock doors in an ancient ruin in a Forgotten Oasis (Badumtish), ultimately leading you to fight avatars of the different magical elements to unlock a hidden tomb. Also - I think you mean the 3 Great Bear Claws. Those were to introduce players to Masterwork Materials for increasing their armor stats.

 

Lots of the quests have Story/Gameplay tie-ins, whether people wish to acknowledge them or not. But then again, a lot of them didn't, so people can rightfully go on to criticise those. 

 

One of my favorites is when people bring up the "10 Ram Meat" quest, when you're trying to get the Inquisition up, running, and word of mouth spread. A hunter says "Things are too dangerous for me to go out and do my thing, people are starving yo. Can you dig it?" And you go out and get them refugees some Grade-A sheep, yo.

 

Alright, I just woke up, ignore me. -Attaches self to Coffee IV Drip.-

I meant getting 3 great bear pelts for the Dalish in the "well stocked camp" quest. I feel like some of the quests have a lot of story potential like the undead on the ramparts ones but it ends up with you going there with little or no prompting, killing a bunch of enemies, lighting pits on fire, and calling it a day. I need a human element, an emotional reason to do quests or they're just tasks to me. I want to get to know some NPCs that I saved and to care if they live or die. That's never been a problem for me in a BioWare game before, I usually find the NPC interaction to be really good and end up liking most of the characters. If they're just little blips on the screen that at best give you an infodump about the area and at worst are not interactive at all then they might as well be cardboard cutouts. I care even less about them than the NPCs in Fable games (at least those NPCs showed fear or happiness and ran away or reacted to you on some level).

 

YES, indeed! Damn these kind of quests! I mean, if it were ten garnets, then it would be great!! Or ten love-letters scattered across the world! Or ten deep mushrooms for the Mage-College! Or ten undead-galls for ...

 

Wait a second ....

Those kinds of quests are fine if there are a few like in DA:O. In DA:I almost every sidequest is like that.

[Zanallen]

The side quests are about the same quality. I think the issue is that there are more of the simpler ones to accommodate the larger areas and they are really front loaded with the Hinterlands being the starter area.

[DragonAgeLegend]

I'll give an example of what I mean by having story missions tie into the other areas in the game. There's a quest that tells us to go to Crestwood. I kid you not all we had to do was meet 2 important people there for a few minutes and then travel to a new area.

What is the point of that? They have an entire area to make us explore in the name of the story but instead they make us go there just to meet up with people to go somewhere else.

That is what I mean, Crestwood should have been tied into the story greater.

[hero 2]

In my opinion we gain levels too quickly. The reason being that I'm having to check the recommended level of the main story, and those levels are coming thick and fast! There's not enough time for me to explore the rest of the game.

 

I'd like to see an experience point reduction mod. That doesn't seem like a big ask...

[Eelectrica]

The last open world style game I played was Fallout:NV. The world felt alive. Everywhere I went something was happening.

The stories of what happened in the various vaults were interesting for example.

It had little towns and people dotted all over with people to talk to.

 

Most side quests in Inquistion come from notes. How many dead people give quests in the Hinterlands for example?

In Inquisition the areas feel dead apart from the constantly respawning monsters in the area.

It probably doesn't help that party banter doesn't trigger as often as we'd like.

 

We need more NPC's. In Inquistion the bulk of the NPC's are in Haven/skyhold. Outside of that - very little really.

It's basically a slog through randomly respawning enemies and collecting rocks  and plants and shards.

[Nefla]

The last open world style game I played was Fallout:NV. The world felt alive. Everywhere I went something was happening.

The stories of what happened in the various vaults were interesting for example.

It had little towns and people dotted all over with people to talk to.

 

Most side quests in Inquistion come from notes. How many dead people give quests in the Hinterlands for example?

In Inquisition the areas feel dead apart from the constantly respawning monsters in the area.

It probably doesn't help that party banter doesn't trigger as often as we'd like.

 

We need more NPC's. In Inquistion the bulk of the NPC's are in Haven/skyhold. Outside of that - very little really.

It's basically a slog through randomly respawning enemies and collecting rocks  and plants and shards.

Loved FO:NV's world, NPCs, and sidequests as well as how often you got to use your high special and skills in conversation.

[tmp7704]

I'll give an example of what I mean by having story missions tie into the other areas in the game. There's a quest that tells us to go to Crestwood. I kid you not all we had to do was meet 2 important people there for a few minutes and then travel to a new area.

What is the point of that? They have an entire area to make us explore in the name of the story but instead they make us go there just to meet up with people to go somewhere else.

That is what I mean, Crestwood should have been tied into the story greater.

Well, do you feel that having all the optional things you can do in Crestwood made mandatory before you can meet these two people would improve things? "Oh that area is in total chaos because of all these undeads and the bandits in the keep, please take care of these things first, only then we can have meeting in peace."

I mean, that's basically how the areas are tied with the main story in DAO. Is that what you are looking for?

[phaonica]

I'll give an example of what I mean by having story missions tie into the other areas in the game. There's a quest that tells us to go to Crestwood. I kid you not all we had to do was meet 2 important people there for a few minutes and then travel to a new area.

What is the point of that? They have an entire area to make us explore in the name of the story but instead they make us go there just to meet up with people to go somewhere else.

That is what I mean, Crestwood should have been tied into the story greater.

 

Even Crestwood was tied in better than some places, I thought. At least in Crestwood, you came in as part of the main story, and while you were traveling from point A to point B, there was a village with a rather lengthy and somewhat interesting questline to explore.

 

It wasn't great, but it was better, I thought then the Emerald Graves, which ties into the main quest not at all, IIRC.

[phaonica]

Well, do you feel that having all the optional things you can do in Crestwood made mandatory before you can meet these two people would improve things? "Oh that area is in total chaos because of all these undeads and the bandits in the keep, please take care of these things first, only then we can have meeting in peace."

I mean, that's basically how the areas are tied with the main story in DAO. Is that what you are looking for?

 

I wouldn't say mandatory, but there should be something on the path on the way to the meeting that seems urgent enough to convince me to deviate from the mission that brought me there in the first place.

[Realmzmaster]

I wouldn't say mandatory, but there should be something on the path on the way to the meeting that seems urgent enough to convince me to deviate from the mission that brought me there in the first place.

 

Why would you deviate from the main purpose of the party being in the area? If that were to happen I would like to see Bioware throw in the possibility that something could happen to make the original mission extremely difficult to complete, because of the deviation.

[tmp7704]

I wouldn't say mandatory, but there should be something on the path on the way to the meeting that seems urgent enough to convince me to deviate from the mission that brought me there in the first place.

Isn't the way it is now allowing pretty much that? You can decide whether your character would find the fate of the village you run across important enough to deviate from the original mission, or not, depending what character you are RPing. But you aren't forced to; if you were, there'd be no doubt some people complaining that their inquisitor would never want to stop for something like that but the game makes them, etc. So isn't the current way better in this regard?

[finc.loki]

What they need to do is treat each area like a mini DAO. Meaning that the area is not there for just MMO type Side-quests.

 

I would want there to be way more STORY content and it leads you along each map from corner to corner in a linear path but still accessing all of it.

 

I am doing a poor job explaining it.

[phaonica]

Why would you deviate from the main purpose of the party being in the area? If that were to happen I would like to see Bioware throw in the possibility that something could happen to make the original mission extremely difficult to complete, because of the deviation.

 

Well, this particular time it was because when I passed by the village on the way to the meeting, the village was presently being attacked by undead, so I stopped to help. The quest I needed to complete to stop the attacks wasn't very far away, so I thought the meeting could wait.

 

And, yes, if the original mission was made more difficult because I decided to stop and save a town, I would not be opposed to that. Actually, that sounds great.

[DragonAgeLegend]

Well, do you feel that having all the optional things you can do in Crestwood made mandatory before you can meet these two people would improve things? "Oh that area is in total chaos because of all these undeads and the bandits in the keep, please take care of these things first, only then we can have meeting in peace."I mean, that's basically how the areas are tied with the main story in DAO. Is that what you are looking for?

It would be too tedious if they incorporated all the optional activities in the story but maybe if they tied in the whole undead thing within the story It would have been a little bit more interesting. It would also increase the length of the story somewhat and make you feel like you needed to accomplish something before moving on to the next area. Instead of leaving it as a side quest and something you didn't really care for since you didn't need to do it. That's also what I meant about not feeling connected to the side quests. I didn't feel like doing these quests would help me.

And yes to answer your question, I'm looking for things like that.

[Eelectrica]

Loved FO:NV's world, NPCs, and sidequests as well as how often you got to use your high special and skills in conversation.

Yes. Very much so. Brought back happy memories of PS:Torment in that regard. That happens occasionally in inquistion depending on some perks chosen, but so much more often in NV. Again things like that make the game and characters  feel more alive.

 

Maybe before doing the next game the guys from BioWare should play New Vegas. Or at least the map designers.

Open world, do what you want, play how you want, but the main story doesn't get lost, and there is plenty of it with heaps of interesting things to do along the way.

[AlanC9]

Either way I was genuinely surprised that anyone, let alone so many people would be generally satisfied with the huge quantity of this kind of quest and the exclusion of quests that involve unique dungeons, cinematics, npcs to interact with in a more in-depth way, choices to make, etc...Personally I'm extremely disappointed with the side quests.

The question is, where would the zots come from to make more of the stuff you want? Cutting a bunch of the cheaper quests wouldn't get you anywhere since those quests are, you know... cheap. To actually get anywhere with this you'd have to start cutting whole areas. Which is OK if you want to bite the bullet and start making the case that DAI should have had fewer areas, which is kind of where the OP started us. (I'm assuming the argument isn't just that DAI is too damn profitable as it is.)

We had a similar argument on the ME boards concerning the item recovery missions in ME3; "Citadel: Kakliosaur Fossil" and so forth. Cut all of them and you wouldn't free up enough wordcount to make one new N7 mission, even assuming you didn't have to give some of the wordcount back to make up for the lack of ambient dialogue on the Citadel once the mission NPCs go away.

[phaonica]

The question is, where would the zots come from to make more of the stuff you want? Cutting a bunch of the cheaper quests wouldn't get you anywhere since those quests are, you know... cheap. To actually get anywhere with this you'd have to start cutting whole areas. Which is OK if you want to bite the bullet and start making the case that DAI should have had fewer areas, which is kind of where the OP started us. (I'm assuming the argument isn't just that DAI is too damn profitable as it is.)

 

I don't know if you'd need to cut anything. Maybe rearrange some of it.

 

Spoiler

Instead of teleporting directly to Val Royeaux, have it be somewhere inside one of the zones like Redcliffe is. Instead of teleporting directly to the Temple of Mythal, have me go through the Emerald Graves.

Put the main plot points in the explorable zones, introduce some "key" side quests between whereever you enter the map, and whereever the main plot point is, that is compelling enough to convince someone to deviate, and then continue to sprinkle the other landmark, collection, and lore quests everywhere as they already did.