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[Crackseed]

So I'm not going to really try to break down too many points beyond offering my own observations, but I am a bit befuddled by the "Too much filler, not enough main story and tie-ins..." and I say this as someone who came from the BG1 days.

 

Every single zone has an overall arc that at the worst, tangentially ties into the main plot and happenings. The main plot gets established as this crazy fight against an impossible adversary that is believed to be myth and we need to grab every single advantage we can get as we push towards the inevitable conclusion.

 

To that end, we expand into zones, quelling issues that have arisen due to the rifts created by the breach. We find ourselves in one zone trying to quell these imperial army traitors who - surprise - are helping the Red Templars obtain their lyrium. We find a large connection to this same issue in Hinterlands. Storm Coast. Emprise du Lion. Every SINGLE side zone has a tie to the main narrative. Could we have had a bit more story per zone to tie it more closely together? Sure. 

 

I'm at 70 hours in after restarting a 45 hour game. While I certainly wish they would have considered AoE looting and finding a more elegant system to collecting crafting mats *eyes flowers* I in no way feel obligated to do this constantly. If I find - hey, I'm gonna need more elfroot for some pots again soon - I can send my war table missions to acquire some. Or buy from a vendor. Or maybe, just maybe, like a REAL person would - grab some on my way to seek out a new objective in whatever zone I'm in.

 

The notion that all our RPGs before had none (or far less) of this fetch/busy work is laughable. I love Baldur's Gate and Fallout - still some of my favorite old school RPGs of all time. But they had PLENTY of filler and side quest busy work - and many of them had 0 to do with the main plot in any shape or form. 

 

I also find the notion that "Oh if you ignore the side quests and rush the main plot only it's so short!" confusing - these complaints could be leveled at pretty much EVERY RPG ever anyway! Hell, I'm a bit baffled that DAI's main arc is considered short considering it's probably double the length we've had from Bioware in past. I recall how awfully fast you could rush ME1's main arc. How you could cheese Fallout 2's main arc by exploring a couple of key points to obtain certain loot that let you just bum rush the final objectives at a break neck pace. Yada yada. An RPG should live or die by it's story but the nature of these games would be hurt terribly if the whole thing was a "Main plot only" device.

 

Side diversions are needed - it stands to reason that as our characters fan out into the world in search of a way to combat whatever menace exists, we'd discover strange and startling things being done by villains or groups which have no affiliation with the main adversary or who don't give two wits about the looming end of the world anyway.

 

As I say this, I in no way believe DAI is perfect - though most of my complaints center primarily on the UI/tac cam issues - but it's a huge step in a direction I think Bioware needed to go. We need some refinements and feedback from fans is always a good way to get ideas for that but there's this really startling level of misinformation about some of the past games being used as ammo AGAINST DAI. 

 

Edit: This repeated use of the ram meat quest is silly - given that it comes from a Hunter who cannot venture out due to the mage-templar fights in the area (look at that, it ties into the main quest) and needs help, you know, while we're moving around the zone for all of the 2-3 seconds it takes to blow up a few rams, loot and move on...I find the complaint weak at best. And you're not even required to do it, but given you ARE the face of an organization trying to win hearts and minds, helping to feed the people seems like a laudable goal anyway. Doesn't even take you that long - look at that, I managed to find a reasoning this "fetch" quest fit the main narrative of the zone and overall game story!

[Vox Draco]

I can't believe how many people in this thread seem to prefer "find shards" or "collect 3 bear pelts" and scoff at those who want more story driven sidequests included as well.   

 

YES, indeed! Damn these kind of quests! I mean, if it were ten garnets, then it would be great!! Or ten love-letters scattered across the world! Or ten deep mushrooms for the Mage-College! Or ten undead-galls for ...

 

Wait a second ....

[Cyonan]

In the beginning, it makes sense to have a decent amount of fetch quests. You are, after all, trying to build the Inquisition. Whether it's supplies, money, influence, support etc. It does make sense. Whether you choose to do them or not, is up to you.

 

You don't have to do all the side quests, or even most of them.

 

However there is a power requirement to unlock story missions that ensures you cannot completely avoid them if you so wish to. Especially early game you've got to knock out a few side activities before progressing in the main story.

[Crackseed]

The power needed to complete the game though is laughably small to how easily you rake it in, even early game. Between completing the various requisitions per zone and a fair chunk of side content in Hinterlands, I had enough to easily cover all opening main plot/side plot power unlocks on the war table.

 

Frankly I think Bioware underused the power system - I'm at the Ball right now and sitting on what, 170 spare power? 

 

Feel like going all Palpatine any minute in my game with that whole "UNLIMITED POWAAAAAAAAAH" rant while channeling lightning bolt into one of these stuffy Orlesian courtiers >.>

[MagisterMaximus]

You don't have to do all the side quests, or even most of them.

 

However there is a power requirement to unlock story missions that ensures you cannot completely avoid them if you so wish to. Especially early game you've got to knock out a few side activities before progressing in the main story.

You have to do some side quests yes, but you could skip a good portion of the "fetch" ones though.

[Cyonan]

The power needed to complete the game though is laughably small to how easily you rake it in, even early game. Between completing the various requisitions per zone and a fair chunk of side content in Hinterlands, I had enough to easily cover all opening main plot/side plot power unlocks on the war table.

 

Frankly I think Bioware underused the power system - I'm at the Ball right now and sitting on what, 170 spare power? 

 

Feel like going all Palpatine any minute in my game with that whole "UNLIMITED POWAAAAAAAAAH" rant while channeling lightning bolt into one of these stuffy Orlesian courtiers >.>

 

That's why I said you don't even have to do the majority of side things =P

 

However the whole "if you don't like the side quests you can completely avoid them" is not actually true. You have to do some of them in order to get power.

[Crackseed]

Sorry Cyonan, was merely backing up your point

[In Exile]

In the beginning, it makes sense to have a decent amount of fetch quests. You are, after all, trying to build the Inquisition. Whether it's supplies, money, influence, support etc. It does make sense. Whether you choose to do them or not, is up to you.

A lot of those quests are "help the randoms" which is certainly related to what the Inquisition does.

[Crackseed]

A lot of those quests are "help the randoms" which is certainly related to what the Inquisition does.

 

Exactly. While I do understand that we, as players, look at these quests and in our jaded eyes go "Oh man, this is such a fetch quest" I would think just as many of us, in enjoying and looking to immerse ourselves in the ROLE we are playing, would just as quickly have seen it as "I'm in a position to help these poor people out and it won't take much of my time to do while I investigate other things in this area..." IMO.

[Fandango]

That's why I said you don't even have to do the majority of side things =P
 
However the whole "if you don't like the side quests you can completely avoid them" is not actually true. You have to do some of them in order to get power.

Aye, people do seem to be confused on that point. Moreover, talking up the relevance most quests have to story and roleplaying kind of undermines the whole 'if you don't like that stuff, skip it' argument doesn't it?

[Loup Blanc]

 

In Origins, this didn't happen to me at all and I think this has to do with the linear areas. Since all the areas we visited were part of the story. The areas were a lot smaller indeed, and I think that is why I felt a lot more involved within the story there. There wasn't an overwhelming number of things to do that made you forget about the story completely and make you think of wasting time so as to not make it end quicker. Smaller worlds to me make me feel closer to what is actually going on, I would sacrifice exploration for a deeper and longer story. 

 

Nailed it, OP.

 

Nailed it. All the areas must be part of the story.

[Crackseed]

Aye, people do seem to be confused on that point. Moreover, talking up the relevance most quests have to story and roleplaying kind of undermines the whole 'if you don't like that stuff, skip it' argument doesn't it?

 

The skip it argument is kind of a catch 22 since most RPG gamers I know always have a drive to do as much of a game as possible, because after all isn't that the point?

 

So while I certainly defend much of the gameplay/story/content present in DAI, even I kind of cringe at the "Well, just skip it" argument.

 

@JK81 - All areas MUST be part of the story? What story? Does it not stand to reason that in a world going crazy, there are places that are relatively untouched by what may be going on? Or people may be disconnected in an area and not know of the major drama going on because they are facing down terrifying circumstances of their own? The overall flow of DAI's zones supports this mentality - there's a thread of story in each zone that HAS relevance to the main plot while leaving plenty of things independent of that plot on their own to be discovered.

[Realmzmaster]

I find it funny that some posters keep bringing up the ram meat quest as a knock against DAI when the same type of quests exist in all crpgs since the beginning. DAO had a ton of them all which are basically optional. Pick any quest from the chanters board, mage collective or Blackstone Irregulars. The quest for the urn is one large fetch quest.

 

The side requests be it fetch or kill serve a purpose in DAI to give power and influence. Many of the quest make sense because the Inquisition is suppose to be about helping the populace. The Chantry cannot help and the mage/templars will not help.

The best way to get people on your side is to help them. That sometimes means helping with the immediate needs. Closing the big rift means nothing to a person who may not live to see it closed, because he/she died from starvation, bandit attack or simply were in the wrong place when a mage and templar decide to duke it out. 

 

I love the semi-open world because it allows exploration and I can uncover points of Interest. 

 

I would like the local map to show only places the party have explored and sites the party has noted. The world map only shows places I have unlocked (on the war table) or been invited.

[Realmzmaster]

Nailed it, OP.

 

Nailed it. All the areas must be part of the story.

 

Why?

[frankf43]

I love the game and love the open world aspects of the game. The zones have their own main arc that makes them integral to the game. They also tie in to the companion quests very nicely. I have currently spent 105 hours on my first playthrough and have just finished Here lies the Abyss. I still have a long way to go before I am ready to finish this playthrough and will jump straight back in to another long playthrough with a new toon when I have finished.

[frankf43]

I find it funny that some posters keep bringing up the ram meat quest as a knock against DAI when the same type of quests exist in all crpgs since the beginning. DAO had a ton of them all which are basically optional. Pick any quest from the chanters board, mage collective or Blackstone Irregulars. The quest for the urn is one large fetch quest.

 

The side requests be it fetch or kill serve a purpose in DAI to give power and influence. Many of the quest make sense because the Inquisition is suppose to be about helping the populace. The Chantry cannot help and the mage/templars will not help.

The best way to get people on your side is to help them. That sometimes means helping with the immediate needs. Closing the big rift means nothing to a person who may not live to see it closed, because he/she died from starvation, bandit attack or simply were in the wrong place when a mage and templar decide to duke it out. 

 

I love the semi-open world because it allows exploration and I can uncover points of Interest. 

 

I would like the local map to show only places the party have explored and sites the party has noted. The world map only shows places I have unlocked (on the war table) or been invited.

DA:O had the Giant Rat quest that was not optional if you played as a Human Noble. So did BG:1 one of the first things I had to do was clear a barn of rats. Then I had to travel across 3 maps fighting Kolbolts, bears and spiders.

[Crackseed]

LOL frankf43 - damn that rat quest  

 

I still remember learning to play that game - never knew about the pause key for combat and kept trying to play everything real time and getting super frustrated by the kobold/wolf swarms early game.

[frankf43]

LOL frankf43 - damn that rat quest  

 

I still remember learning to play that game - never knew about the pause key for combat and kept trying to play everything real time and getting super frustrated by the kobold/wolf swarms early game.

I used to rest on purpose to bring up more wondering Monsters so I could level up quicker. 

[Realmzmaster]

DA:O had the Giant Rat quest that was not optional if you played as a Human Noble. So did BG:1 one of the first things I had to do was clear a barn of rats. Then I had to travel across 3 maps fighting Kolbolts, bears and spiders.

 

The ones you mention are part of the "tutorial". They are quests to give your protagonist experience points and help them level. Candlekeep in BG1 had a lot of those quests whose sole purpose was to level the character before getting to the Friendly INN where Khalid and Jaheira waited. The beginning of many crpgs are like that.

[AlanC9]

The skip it argument is kind of a catch 22 since most RPG gamers I know always have a drive to do as much of a game as possible, because after all isn't that the point?

Yeah, gamer OCD is a terrible thing. Not all RPGs reward that, though. Skyrim surely doesn't

[frankf43]

The ones you mention are part of the "tutorial". They are quests to give your protagonist experience points and help them level. Candlekeep in BG1 had a lot of those quests whose sole purpose was to level the character before getting to the Friendly INN where Khalid and Jaheira waited. The beginning of many crpgs are like that.

 

The ram quest that is being popularized as the epitome of all that is wrong with DA:I is also at the start of the game.

[Lord Vallis]

Thats what is so...entertaining....to me in these forums.

 

I get to come here and hear gamers complain about a huge game world that lets you do whatever you want to do in it. Want to take hours/weeks to screw around and explore the world? Go for it. Want to focus on the main storyline like a laser till the endgame? Go for it.

 

And somehow this is a bad thing????

 

I just..........wow!  Does not compute LOL.

 

Then they come here and pine away for the good ole days of small, cramped "worlds" on rails with one path to take and zero choices.

 

My only responce is: Wow...lol..and SMH.

 

 

I agree!  

 

Then there are those who complain because the quests are, "fetch this, kill that, talk to this other person".

I guess they would rather have a game where you watch the screen and do absolutely nothing.  One good thing about a game like that, is there wouldn't be any problem with mouse and keybord controls.  Although I may be underestimating this bunch's ability to complain.  LOL

 

(There actually is a game like that.  My son was playing it. Nightmare at Freddie's I think it was.  Player sits there and switches views.  That's it.  Fun!)

[Crackseed]

Yeah, gamer OCD is a terrible thing. Not all RPGs reward that, though. Skyrim surely doesn't

 

I can't do Bethesda RPGs at all. I recognize and applaud much of what they do and how massive/moddable they are but I get so insanely bored in those games, something I do not experience in the Dragon Age series.

 

I really think it comes down to the quality of the story and the content that backs it up. Also the combat - even in it's worst state (which for me was DAO minus the great tactical view) it was leagues ahead of anything Bethesda's done IMO.

[frankf43]

I agree1  

 

Then there are those who complain because the quests are, "fetch this, kill that, talk to this other person".

I guess they would rather have a game where you watch the screen and do absolutely nothing.  One good thing about a game like that, is there wouldn't be any problem with mouse and keybord controls.  Although I may be underestimating this bunch's ability to complain.  LOL

 

(There actually is a game like that.  My son was playing it. Nightmare at Freddie's I think it was.  Player sits there and switches views.  That's it.  Fun!)

I watched a walkthrough on Telltales GoT the other day and that was just like that. I thought somebody actually paid for this?

[Realmzmaster]

The ram quest that is being popularized as the epitome of all that is wrong with DA:I is also at the start of the game.

 

Exactly, which is no different from many of the fetch quests in DAO which are at the beginning of the game. Like for the human noble who is told by his father to go find his brother or by Ser Gilmore to get the dog out the kitchen. The quest does introduce you to dog. The find the flower in the wilds is the other fetch quest to introduce the other non-human noble wardens to dog.

 

The same type of quests exist in all crpgs. It is quite easy to find things wrong with games you do not like, while ignoring those same things in games you do like.