535 réponses à ce sujet

[Vox Draco]

JK81, on 15 Dec 2014 - 6:55 PM, said:

Nailed it, OP.

 

Nailed it. All the areas must be part of the story.

Why?

 

Oh come on, everyone knows that the mad guy with the Basilisks in BG 1 was secretly in league with Sarevok! And so was that Ogre Mage in Firewine Bridge tormenting the Halflings! Or Good Old Lord Firkraag, who plottet together with the Shadow Dragon in Uma Hills to take the Bhaalspawn to their ally Irenicus! And weren't the evil werewolves and the Lady of the Forest not actually part of the Darkspawn army? I always had this impression!

 

No...wait...did it again ...   Need to stop this *activates sneak-mode*

[Incantrix]

We really need a "dis-like" button. The op has 20 of my dislikes. 

 

I hate linear games and only expect them in asian rpg's like Final fantasy. (and even Square Enix is starting to stray away from linearity) 

[Cyonan]

I agree!  

 

Then there are those who complain because the quests are, "fetch this, kill that, talk to this other person".

I guess they would rather have a game where you watch the screen and do absolutely nothing.  One good thing about a game like that, is there wouldn't be any problem with mouse and keybord controls.  Although I may be underestimating this bunch's ability to complain.  LOL

 

(There actually is a game like that.  My son was playing it. Nightmare at Freddie's I think it was.  Player sits there and switches views.  That's it.  Fun!)

 

That is not at all what people are asking for.

 

Some people want more detailed and interesting side quests. In Inquisition most of them are just a small bit of dialogue before going to collect ram meat, and then a small bit of dialogue when you get back. No real choice is made except if you want to do the quest or not.

 

Likewise in Origins when confronted by a knight in Denerim I can choose to try to talk my way out of it, accept his challenge and fight him in honourable 1 on 1 combat, or just attack when he's not suspecting with my entire party. It's not a huge decision, but it allows for a little extra role playing with your Warden.

 

As I mentioned before I like the more open world nature and I get that this means more filler quests(which even Origins had its share of), but I feel like they could still use some refinement to get a few more of the higher quality ones in there.

[WillieStyle]

Count me as someone who hated open-world games until I played DA:I. I, for one, loved the combination of main plot and large ancillary areas to explore. And really, I think areas like Crestwood and the Emerald Graves had just as strong a central storyline to them as areas in any other Bioware game. I mean, compare Crestwood in DA:I to Orzammar in Origins. The only thing the former lacked over the latter were cinematic cutscenes.
Hell, I even really like the Hissing Wastes. Slowly unravelling the story behind the ruins via puzzles and codex entries was fun.

If the concern about storytelling in Inquisition can be dealt with via more cinematic cutscenes, then go for it. But I think it would be a real shame to go back to the smaller story hub areas of DA:O and Mass Effect.

And this is from someone who prays at the alter of Baldurs Gate 2 and HATED Oblivion. Hell, I didn't even bother to buy Skyrim. Not to suggest that those games were bad. They just weren't for me. But I still loved Inquisition.

[WillieStyle]

Oh by the way, I absolutely dispute the notion that the sidequest quality in Inquisition was poorer than it was in Origins. The quests might have lacked cinematic cutscenes, but there quality was just as high if not higher than those of Origins on average.

[In Exile]

Yeah, gamer OCD is a terrible thing. Not all RPGs reward that, though. Skyrim surely doesn't

If anything Skyrim punishes it. But that's a YMMV I guess.

[Imryll]

I loved the way Hinterlands brought to life the many faces of the mage-templar conflict. I loved all the mini dramas--and was glad to do my part to feed the hungry and bask in Solas' slight approval, all while collecting a nice stack of ram leather for use in crafting. As I mentionned earlier, I think they need to adjust mechanics. Bioware's implementation of the search key coupled with so many points of interest being marked on the map doesn't exactly encourage player delight at spotting an odd glint in the distance. To me it feels as though they went out of their way to turn the fun of exploring into a chore, but at least so far I think they've done a fine job of populating the world with sights worth investigating.   

[DameMagpie]

There seem to be two camps here. One likes a busy box, the other an opera box. The solution would be to flag trivial quests and disable their appearance in preferences. The result would be a linear game for those who feel put out or a global hang out for those of us who like RP hunting for refugee food or giggle at druffalo

 

Really that's it, a check box. A quest writer obviously knows the real time answer to the question "would everyone want to do this exercise"?

 

As for adding attractive and intelligent cut scenes I need to ask, How much do you expect to pay for that?

[Crackseed]

I loved the way Hinterlands brought to life the many faces of the mage-templar conflict. I loved all the mini dramas--and was glad to do my part to feed the hungry and bask in Solas' slight approval, all while collecting a nice stack of ram leather for use in crafting. As I mentionned earlier, I think they need to adjust mechanics. Bioware's implementation of the search key coupled with so many points of interest being marked on the map doesn't exactly encourage player delight at spotting an odd glint in the distance. To me it feels as though they went out of their way to turn the fun of exploring into a chore, but at least so far I think they've done a fine job of populating the world with sights worth investigating.   

 

My primary grumble with the game and the open zones definitely centers on the search key/looting system. Also the horse - I love the mounts but why use them when you can't search while on them? Ugh.

 

I set up a system early for myself - as I moved towards a quest point, I made it my business to also gather any tertiary things in the area, such as shards or whatever crafting mats were there. After 5-10 mins of this side gathering, if I hadn't yet reached the quest point, I cut off all the searching and beelined directly for the quest to keep myself from doing too much tedium work. 

 

I found overall that outside of a couple of annoying shards *eyes Exalted Plains* I was usually able to comb an entire area including the quest and this kept things moving at a good pace w/o me becoming bogged down in busy work.

 

If there's one other complaint I'd raise, it's that there's so much side stuff to do it's WAY too easy to outlevel the game and find things trivial at the moment. I sometimes wish the main plot enemies would scale with level at least as right now I'm just basically slapping anything around without much effort. 

 

Did get my ego checked by a level 20 rift and a rather hairy set of add-chaining in Emerald Graves when 2 giants and 4 brontos all aggroed me at once followed by 3 more brontos respawning xD

[DameMagpie]

perhaps right clicking on the map could remove a quest individually, where wholesale removal of quest types would be not RP

 

also I would give the detractors that I am sometimes confused by what to do next. I have notes for next time, but love the thrill of it

[In Exile]

I loved the way Hinterlands brought to life the many faces of the mage-templar conflict. I loved all the mini dramas--and was glad to do my part to feed the hungry and bask in Solas' slight approval, all while collecting a nice stack of ram leather for use in crafting. As I mentionned earlier, I think they need to adjust mechanics. Bioware's implementation of the search key coupled with so many points of interest being marked on the map doesn't exactly encourage player delight at spotting an odd glint in the distance. To me it feels as though they went out of their way to turn the fun of exploring into a chore, but at least so far I think they've done a fine job of populating the world with sights worth investigating.

This is good implementation since it avoids me having to just randomly rifle through garbage to find stuff. I agree that there should be an option to disable stuff to simulate more exploration but just introducing more random walking with nothing to do IMO won't be fun.

[phaonica]

I rather like the open world. I just wish that the Open World and the Main Quest were more interrelated, that doing the Main Quest was actually *part* of the Open World, rather than entirely separated areas.

[Maconbar]

I like the fact that I find my play-throughs seem to vary for no apparent reason. Sometimes I have a char that spends a lot of time in the Hinterlands. Others do close to the minimum and then get out. I have little idea as to why but I like that. Therefore each play seems very different. With previous BW games, I would tend to clear a zone and then move to the next. When I got KOTOR on my iPad I am pretty sure that I played it in almost the same fashion as ten years ago.

That said I felt that this narrative lost steam after the move to Skyhold. Maybe for me 2-3 additional story quests were needed, preferrably with one more setback. If this wasn't in the no spoilers part I would expand on my complaints about the narrative.

[Imryll]

This is good implementation since it avoids me having to just randomly rifle through garbage to find stuff. I agree that there should be an option to disable stuff to simulate more exploration but just introducing more random walking with nothing to do IMO won't be fun.

The problem is that because they made items blend too well with their surroundings, rather than make subtle use of color and items placement, so that observant players would notice them. At this point just not using the search key would cause the player to miss too much.

 

I also think that it's fine for the game to include things that are fun to discover, but will generally be overlooked by non-explorers. Obviously, plot-important items should be placed where even the less curious will find them.

[Lord of Mu]

I rather like the open world. I just wish that the Open World and the Main Quest were more interrelated, that doing the Main Quest was actually *part* of the Open World, rather than entirely separated areas.

 

That is actually something I would also like to see. I loved the change to the big world, after DA2 it's quite refreshing. It would be nice if more could be done to bring the world alive, some of the things mentioned in the early stage trailers, save a town and have missions there vs ignoring the town and not, weather effects, day and night cycle would make great additions to Inquisition or a future game/expansion.

[Vinitchz]

I have to agree, having each area incorporated in the main story gives the inquisitor more reasons to explore that area, otherwise, it really made no sense to me, the main story of DAI is too urgent to let the inquisitor just roaming around areas that in fact will not be of any consequence for the inquisition.

[In Exile]

The problem is that because they made items blend too well with their surroundings, rather than make subtle use of color and items placement, so that observant players would notice them. At this point just not using the search key would cause the player to miss too much.

I also think that it's fine for the game to include things that are fun to discover, but will generally be overlooked by non-explorers. Obviously, plot-important items should be placed where even the less curious will find them.

I didn't have the problem a lot of people are having with the search. I didn't get to play before patch 2 because my PC was only half built by then but I find that the combination of the mini map ping + outline is more than enough. To me the contrast is really sharp.

I don't mind things being overlooked (I often overlook stuff) but what I do mind is being forced to just wander. I hate aimless wandering.

[Rekkampum]

I like having more to do, especially considering how contained Origins was. I think the major fault in this case is that the sidequests for each area that are story-related to an extent aren't that involving and unique. It's like dozens of MMO-era side jobs and activities and in that case I thought it was a major step backward re: the storytelling dep't. I still get a kick out of the rhyming tree and paranoid hobo in DA:O. That kind of identity rarely shows up in Inquisition. I try to see this more like their experiment - they were heavily influenced by Skyrim - with open worlds and I think they'll strike the balance they need as they perfect it and take note of the feedback.

[whiteravenxi]

I just want to throw this out there because I feel like these threads pop up all the time with the same noise: we are really complaining about too much - optional - included day one content.

 

Take a moment to consider that in today's current market and that BioWare is owned by EA. 

Nobody is forcing us to do sidequests. You can truly get enough power closing a few rifts and unlocking a couple camps in each zone. If you happen to do a quest on the way it's a bonus.  If you dislike or find the optional content tedious, why not focus more on the main story and follower quests? There's enough freedom to play the game here the way YOU want to, without asking for the removal of content that some of us (myself included) enjoy greatly. I still argue about what would be so satisfying if all side quests were of the epic or "directed with camera shots" variety? We'd end up with a more fatiguing game whose gameplay loop consists of constant dialog, superfluous director shots, and way too fast of a pace. 

I welcome this new path BioWare has taken. Let's look at the pros here:
 

1. No bullsh*t day 1 DLC companions, quests, nor some DLC jerk standing in camp to get me to buy - you guessed it - DLC!
2. Tonne's of zones that are monstrous in size. 
3. Dragons
4. Romances that are no longer complete X quest before end mission to bone.
5. Four races this time over 3 in the first game and 1 in the second combined with...
6. FOUR mother f*cking voice actors for the player character. FOUR.
7. Dragons
8. Dungeons hidden areas in zones waiting to be explored
9. Quality and diverse companions
10. A more cohesive and to the point story
11. Dragons

I'm level 20 now. I have one story mission left. I felt I was nearly done everything. I then explored Empress Du Lion and found a special dragon that took me an hour of multiple attempts to kill. It then dropped the Inquisitor Helmet. I'd gladly give BW $70 for this game again just for the pure satisfaction I felt in that moment of finding that dragon on my own without guidance, the epic battle that took place in a unique environment, and the amount of challenge it presented me. Totally optional. Win.

[phaonica]

I just want to throw this out there because I feel like these threads pop up all the time with the same noise: we are really complaining about too much - optional - included day one content.

Nobody is forcing us to do sidequests. You can truly get enough power closing a few rifts and unlocking a couple camps in each zone. If you happen to do a quest on the way it's a bonus.  If you dislike or find the optional content tedious, why not focus more on the main story and follower quests? There's enough freedom to play the game here the way YOU want to, without asking for the removal of content that some of us (myself included) enjoy greatly. I still argue about what would be so satisfying if all side quests were of the epic or "directed with camera shots" variety? We'd end up with a more fatiguing game whose gameplay loop consists of constant dialog, superfluous director shots, and way too fast of a pace.

 

I'm personally not saying that those side quests should go away. And having more sidequest cutscenes, I agree, wouldn't help.

 

What I don't think is great is that there are entire zones that have nothing to do with the main quest. That isn't to say that the zones should go away; it is to say that those quests should somehow be tied to the main story.

[Natureguy85]

I don't think side quests have to be tied directly into the plot, but they should be tied into the setting. So, lets use what seems to be the favorite example of "collect 10 ram meats". All they have to do is show a struggling village and have an NPC explain how the war or a demon attack has caused the village to fall on hard times and the people are hungry. Then after you collect the ram meats, the village improves the next time you visit. The quest is still a fetch quest, but it was no longer empty because it impacted the world. Does Inquisition do this?

[AllThatJazz]

I don't think side quests have to be tied directly into the plot, but they should be tied into the setting. So, lets use what seems to be the favorite example of "collect 10 ram meats". All they have to do is show a struggling village and have an NPC explain how the war or a demon attack has caused the village to fall on hard times and the people are hungry. Then after you collect the ram meats, the village improves the next time you visit. The quest is still a fetch quest, but it was no longer empty because it impacted the world. Does Inquisition do this?

Yes. The village was the Crossroads in the Hinterlands. Refugees (because of the Rifts spewing out demons) from the farmlands and elsewhere in the Hinterlands were without blankets, food and medicine - so the Inquisitor had the option to provide these things while on her travels. I'm not actually sure how much more connected to the setting it could have been.

[Natureguy85]

Yes. The village was the Crossroads in the Hinterlands. Refugees (because of the Rifts spewing out demons) from the farmlands and elsewhere in the Hinterlands were without blankets, food and medicine - so the Inquisitor had the option to provide these things while on her travels. I'm not actually sure how much more connected to the setting it could have been.

 

That's a good start, but were those problems visible? Did it feel like a real village with problems? Could you see or feel the effects of your help? Or was it just an NPC saying "hey we need stuff" and "thank you"? These things can make all the difference.

[AllThatJazz]

Eh, it was done at least as well as lothering in Origins. You had people sitting or standing around engaged in ambient conversation along the lines of 'we're hungry, and cold, how much longer can we go on' etc. Then if you did the quests, the ambient dialogue changed to reflect the improved situation. Like a real village? No. But that's not an open world issue, Bioware has never done dense, lively populations, and I don't remember any tangible, rather than cosmetic, change as a result of small sidequests in other games either, with the exception of Fable 3.

[Sondermann]

That's a good start, but were those problems visible? Did it feel like a real village with problems? Could you see or feel the effects of your help? Or was it just an NPC saying "hey we need stuff" and "thank you"? These things can make all the difference.

Sure, you feel the effects of your help. Wandering through the Hinterlands you get a lot of feedback on your actions if you listen in on the conversations among the NPCs.