235 réponses à ce sujet

[Icy Magebane]

My only problem with this quest was that I got lost in a courtyard after being attacked by a group of enemies and kept losing so much approval from not being able to find the exit that I had to restart a few times.  Eventually I just decided to slowly walk around until I found the correct path to get back indoors, and then I reloaded and ran there... I can't imagine trying to do this legitimately.  That area had me going in circles!

 

But otherwise, I enjoyed the quest... overall I agree with the sentiment that the timer caused the most problems.  I lost a bit of approval here and there from saying the wrong thing, and I'm sure that being a Dalish didn't help matters, but those losses I had no issue with.  The constant running back to the party after exploring an area for a few seconds (that's what it felt like), and being forced to avoid fighting at all costs, I could have done without.

[King Dragonlord]

I hope the modders are making progress with those tools because just as the Fade and Ostagar needed "Skip" mods, so does this. Its tolerable once but its insufferable that you have to play this one through on each subsequent playthrough. There should be some kind of alternative. 

 

Its not like I need their armies anyway. I beat Corypheus twice now with just me and three blissfully non Orlesian squadmates. 

[MissMayhem96]

"When I saw the trellis said climb with the button icon I thought for sure it was some kind of trick test. Surely the game wasn't going to have the inquisitor climb into the private quarters where clearly you should not be in front of all these people."

All of the NPC's are actually facing the other way listening to the Minstrel. They can't see the Inquisitor climbing up the trellis. However, I do agree it's a bit dumb to sneak in that way

[MissMayhem96]

BUT if they are all facing the other way then how do you lose approval by being in there. Someone must see you and if someone does then they probably tell others because they love gossip, clearly. All it takes is one and that's how we lose approval.

I thought approval only slipped away because we are away from the party. I also heard that if you jump around on tables and acting like a fool you can lose points that way too.. The only person in that garden that could see the Inquisitor is the Bard.

[MissMayhem96]

I lost points while I was away from the party. It was a nuisance to go back and forth. Same sort of nuisance you have to deal with if you do the templar side and have to keep going back to the main hall to save their sorry butts.

That was one of the reasons I didn't like about siding with the templars, going out to find the Templar Veterans and coming back to fight in the Main Hall. At least with the Mage quest it wasn't hard to find the red lyrium shards to open the door.

[HozzMidnight]

1 Halla I just couldn't reach and had to stop trying to reach because that damned timer was ticking away.

 

I know the one you mean.  I saw a video of a guy grabbing it just by standing on the table below it...this did not work for me, tried mouse+KB and also gamepad.  There are some boxes/stuff you can climb up on in a corner and then you can walk the rafters to it.  There is a book/codex entry up there too.

[tmp7704]

Why can't I ally myself with Gascard and poison Celene? No one would ever need to know and we could cut this affair short.

Officially, the whole purpose of the event is to prevent Celene's assassination as that would throw the nation in the chaos (as you get to see in the 'glimpse of the future' on the mage route) So poisoning Celene would be basically doing the exact thing Corypheus wants. While some of your advisors express their preference for Gascard if you speak with them, they also note such change of rulership would also cause period of chaos.

Frankly, it's raher odd they even give you option to allow Celene's murder given these *and* that there's no negative consequences if you do because it's pretty "chaotic stupid" option that you'd expect to see in Star Wars game. The execution falters here, imo.

Why do I even have to attend the ball? Can't I just meet the empress and tell her that her life is in danger?

This is mentioned in the introduction to this quest -- the inquisition has made attempts to warn Celene but they were largely ignored since the empress believes it's more important to try and bring her bickering nation together, even if it means risking her own life. You don't attend the ball to tell her what she already knows. You are there to make sure when **** hits the fan Corypheus doesn't get what he's after.

[FragCzar]

OP is correct.  The court approval timer was nonsense and made an ok quest into a nuisance quest.

[The Serge777]

I think a lot of people are missing the point.  There isn't a "right" outcome here.  If your Inquisitor is a no-nonsense, cut the BS type, then he's not going to get the requisite approval.  That's real.  If he is diplomatic, even if he's an elf or a mage or whatever, he has a chance.  That's real.  It's like the fact that tall men are more likely to assume leadership roles by default because that's what happens.  Not necessarily fair (and something to work on to be sure), but real. 

 

It's funny, this quest is one of the strongest role-playing elements of the game and it's one that a lot of people don't seem to want to... role play...

[abearzi]

I think a lot of people are missing the point.  There isn't a "right" outcome here.  If your Inquisitor is a no-nonsense, cut the BS type, then he's not going to get the requisite approval.  That's real.  If he is diplomatic, even if he's an elf or a mage or whatever, he has a chance.  That's real.  It's like the fact that tall men are more likely to assume leadership roles by default because that's what happens.  Not necessarily fair (and something to work on to be sure), but real. 

 

It's funny, this quest is one of the strongest role-playing elements of the game and it's one that a lot of people don't seem to want to... role play...

I think a lot of people are missing the point. There is only one outcome here. If your inquisitor is a no-nonsense, cut the BS type, then you have to completely break character to get the requisite approval. That's contrived. If they are diplomatic, even an elf or mage or whatever, there is a chance to either do it one way, or fail and redo it that way anyway. Its like the fact that tall men are more likely to assume leadership roles by default because that's what happens, and so short people then get to instantly redo their leadership qualifications and be tall the second time around rather than have to deal with the consequences of being short. Not necessarily fair (or even cogent in the story), but contrived to move the plot along the pre-set pathing.

 

It's funny; this quest is the weakest role-playing part of a game already weak on that front, and it's its like a lot of people seem to confuse a non-combat section for actual...role-play...

[Efvie]

I think a lot of people are missing the point. There is only one outcome here. If your inquisitor is a no-nonsense, cut the BS type, then you have to completely break character to get the requisite approval. That's contrived. If they are diplomatic, even an elf or mage or whatever, there is a chance to either do it one way, or fail and redo it that way anyway.

 

I don’t think I understand what you’re trying to say, I’m sorry. You’ll need to try to clarify a bit.

 

The fact that your brusque no-BS Inquisitor will fail if they act in their usual way doesn’t mean you’re breaking character. The character either needs to break from their habit and try to blend in, or then act like they usually do and accept the consequences.

 

If you can’t accept the consequences and just want the best ending even if your character wouldn’t act like that, then you are breaking character.

 

…

 

The trellis was ridiculous. I spent a good half hour trying to figure out what I’m supposed to do because I couldn’t believe climbing up there with everybody looking was the intended action.

[Andres Hendrix]

I do too, becuase they are wicked.

[abearzi]

I don’t think I understand what you’re trying to say, I’m sorry. You’ll need to try to clarify a bit.

 

The fact that your brusque no-BS Inquisitor will fail if they act in their usual way doesn’t mean you’re breaking character. The character either needs to break from their habit and try to blend in, or then act like they usually do and accept the consequences.

 

If you can’t accept the consequences and just want the best ending even if your character wouldn’t act like that, then you are breaking character.

 

…

 

The trellis was ridiculous. I spent a good half hour trying to figure out what I’m supposed to do because I couldn’t believe climbing up there with everybody looking was the intended action.

 

Sorry, my post might have not made the most sense as I was pretty much just rewording the post I quoted to make a point.

 

My point is; if my Inquisitor does not have any option but to go through the ball a certain way then I am not role-playing. The reason for that is not because doing that is a bad option, but the only other option is to stop playing the game (and I mean DAI, not the "political" wankery of Orlais). There are no consequences for the quest other than to reload and play it the correct way. 

 

If instead I had the option to play like an *******, lose all my Nob' cred and be thrown out and then had to deal with the repercussions of Orlais being in chaos, that would be role-playing. But since Orlais literally can never be in chaos, there is no significance to the whole debacle because as the Player I can literally not fail the quest. 

 

Here is an example of a complex quest outcome from the original Deus Ex. If people haven't played, do yourself a favor and do it. Its the best ****** RPG ever. Also, spoilers

Spoiler

In Hell's Kitchen you are in an apartment with your brother when the fed's come for him. He is sick so is unable to fight much and tells you to get out and save yourself. At this point you can just beat feet, leaving him to fend off the mech's himself. He dies and you lose certain choices later in the game.You can fight the mech's with him until they take you both down. You are arrested and he is dead. You can take down all the mechs, clear the area and then beat feet to the subway. He lives and continues to play a part later in the game, you get arrested. You don't redo the section if you make shitty choices...you live with those shitty choices.

[No-one...\o/]

I hope the modders are making progress with those tools because just as the Fade and Ostagar needed "Skip" mods, so does this. Its tolerable once but its insufferable that you have to play this one through on each subsequent playthrough. There should be some kind of alternative. 

 

Its not like I need their armies anyway. I beat Corypheus twice now with just me and three blissfully non Orlesian squadmates. 

In YOUR opinion. You write as if everyone would share it, which is not the case.

 

 

I'm curious now, what actually happens when you get thrown out? Does the mission count as completed? Or do you have to reload/restart the ball?

[King Dragonlord]

In YOUR opinion. You write as if everyone would share it, which is not the case.

 

 

I'm curious now, what actually happens when you get thrown out? Does the mission count as completed? Or do you have to reload/restart the ball?

 

Mine and the guy who started this thread and several others. And your opinion is no more officially supported. I'd be willing to bet money that people are going to turn sour on this more and more in future replays.

 

As for the second part (though I figure you weren't addressing me) I wouldn't know. Its way too easy and too obvious to guess what Bioware thinks is clever in this situation (again, Cryptic and Vague always equate to Clever in their book). I've heard you have to sneak back into the party. 

[Sherbet Lemon]

The only thing I didn't like was the combat.  I wish we could have been able to complete the whole portion without combat, but I understand why it was implemented.  Still, I don't feel like it fit with the mission.

[King Dragonlord]

The only thing I didn't like was the combat.  I wish we could have been able to complete the whole portion without combat, but I understand why it was implemented.  Still, I don't feel like it fit with the mission.

 

I wouldn't be opposed to an entire mission that was nothing but dialog sequences and puzzles. But that dialog needs to have some substance and this had almost none.

[No-one...\o/]

Mine and the guy who started this thread and several others. And your opinion is no more officially supported. I'd be willing to bet money that people are going to turn sour on this more and more in future replays.

 

As for the second part (though I figure you weren't addressing me) I wouldn't know. Its way too easy and too obvious to guess what Bioware thinks is clever in this situation (again, Cryptic and Vague always equate to Clever in their book). I've heard you have to sneak back into the party. 

No the second was a question to everyone.

 

And there are several ppl in this thread who liked it, besides me. I think it boils down to taste.

 

I don't understand though, why ppl would "turn sour in future replays", since you can, if you rly dislike it so much, spacebar through everything and spam 2. You'll be done with the mission in no time (in contrast to 'the fade' of DAO which you mentioned earlier, cause it was - I agree - long, but unskippable without mods).

Maybe some people will be anoyed by it, but I bet there are enough like me out there, who enjoyed the mission and love replaying it

[SpiritMuse]

Sorry, my post might have not made the most sense as I was pretty much just rewording the post I quoted to make a point.
 
My point is; if my Inquisitor does not have any option but to go through the ball a certain way then I am not role-playing. The reason for that is not because doing that is a bad option, but the only other option is to stop playing the game (and I mean DAI, not the "political" wankery of Orlais). There are no consequences for the quest other than to reload and play it the correct way. 

It's also not possible to role play your character as a sucky fighter who dies at Haven and have the game continue without them.

Role play doesn't always mean you get to do whatever the hell you want. Role play doesn't always mean your character gets to do whatever they want. There are consequences, and sometimes those consequences are "game over, you lose". Your character is restricted in this case. He/she has no choice but to go along with the Game and play pretend for the nobles because the alternative is to give Orlais and total victory to the enemy. It's that simple.

[Solar1101]

The dance was ridiculous. I ended up with 11 by the end. Punished for playing the damn game. That's what gamers want. Then of course after it's all over I get multiple conflicting approval messages, cole approves, cole greatly disapproves. I feel emotionally abused. I just don't care any more because there's no way to predict any of it without metagaming. That's how to design a game, metagaming is the only way to win, that or luck.

 

You literally did everything wrong that you could have done wrong to end up with a score of 11.  This isn't poor design this is poor ability on your part.

 

Oh but I was role playing!

 

So you were role playing a crappy diplomat with no ability to be coy or anything.  I ended up with a score of 100 despite starting off with -10 for being a mage and no I didn't find all of the halla statues.  So uhhh you just did it all wrong.  Sorry this is your fault.  I don't like the timer either but it gives some reality to the fact that you're an important guest whose presence would be missed.  If you could just go off and do what you wanted it would be like the President of the USA ducking out on a state dinner and expecting no one to notice.  

 

people cry for realism and when they get it they cry even harder.  Go away.

[King Dragonlord]

You literally did everything wrong that you could have done wrong to end up with a score of 11.  This isn't poor design this is poor ability on your part.

 

Oh but I was role playing!

 

So you were role playing a crappy diplomat with no ability to be coy or anything.  I ended up with a score of 100 despite starting off with -10 for being a mage and no I didn't find all of the halla statues.  So uhhh you just did it all wrong.  Sorry this is your fault.  I don't like the timer either but it gives some reality to the fact that you're an important guest whose presence would be missed.  If you could just go off and do what you wanted it would be like the President of the USA ducking out on a state dinner and expecting no one to notice.  

 

people cry for realism and when they get it they cry even harder.  Go away.

 

Being a good diplomat or leader or negotiator is about far more than being coy, not that they get that in this mission. This set up cried out for other manipulation options. The Orlesians are expecting you to be a crass obvious boorish foreigner who reveals too much and is easy to read. They think they're the masters of refinement and subtlety. You could play off of that, letting the right details "slip" to the right people, acting like a bit of a twit so that people drop their guard. Being loud and obnoxious while secretly watching for what and how people react. Everyone here is so used to being coy that many are likely unpracticed at holding their reactions when startled. You could slip something into the drinks to help loosen tongues . . .  

 

 . . . Then, when you need them to respect you, after you've played those cards, you can lower the boom by subtly revealing what you've picked up on and hints of how you've been playing them. Just enough to make them guess. Make them panic. Have your plants watch for reactions. 

 

Alternately, you could just read the situation, figure out what the Orlesians need from you (all of it, not just the obvious) and structure and enticing deal as the basis for your alliance. All the strutting and preening in the world is useless when you know what your prospective customer needs and how badly they need it. You can wait them out till they're done with their dog and pony show. 

 

Being coy only tells them you know how to act like a common Orlesian twit.