235 réponses à ce sujet

[ziloe]

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize you hated roleplaying and wanted the game to just bend to your every whim. I mean, it isn't like the entire series, books and all, haven't warned you of what to expect from the Orlesian nobility. I was quite pleased with how it turned out.

[King Dragonlord]

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize you hated roleplaying and wanted the game to just bend to your every whim.

 

If you're replying to the OP, you might begin to have a point.

 

If you're replying to me, I've presented a number of logical options for flexibility that should exist within the mission. I haven't even complained about the timer. 

 

But since they aren't going to go back and add anything like that, yes I want a mod to get rid of it. I've played it twice. I've wrung what tiny gameplay and roleplay value there is out of the experience. Apart from the actual final choice, there's no meaningful possibility space. 

[Timpants]

If you're replying to the OP, you might begin to have a point.
 
If you're replying to me, I've presented a number of logical options for flexibility that should exist within the mission. I haven't even complained about the timer. 
 
But since they aren't going to go back and add anything like that, yes I want a mod to get rid of it. I've played it twice. I've wrung what tiny gameplay and roleplay value there is out of the experience. Apart from the actual final choice, there's no meaningful possibility space.

Well your first option wouldn't work because you're assuming the Orlesian nobles are incredibly naive and easily manipulated. Maybe some of them are, but the powerful ones are all experienced players of the game (or else they wouldn't be powerful) and would see right through you. The game isn't just about acting coy, the inquisitor only does it because it's the only move they know.
The second one probably wouldn't work either, because you need something from the Orlesians too, their support and Morrigan. While she might join you of her own accord, without their army you can't get to the temple. It also appears to me that once you've closed the breach, there's nothing about defeating Corypheus that requires the inquisitor so she could just tell whoever is in charge of Orlais about the eluvian leaving the inquisition irrelevant.
The point of the mission isn't just to save the empress (or let her die), it's also to get support from Orlais and the way to do that is to convince the people in power that even though you're an elf/dwarf/qunari/freemarcher you're willing to play the game too and therefore underneath you're one of them and deserve their respect. With their respect comes their support and it also lends some legitimacy to the inquisition so people won't think it's just a cult living up in a mountain

[King Dragonlord]

Well your first option wouldn't work because you're assuming the Orlesian nobles are incredibly naive and easily manipulated. Maybe some of them are, but the powerful ones are all experienced players of the game (or else they wouldn't be powerful) and would see right through you. The game isn't just about acting coy, the inquisitor only does it because it's the only move they know.
 

 

LOL Really? Do you think the writing of this mission earns any of that? A elvish servant and a merc have the knowledge to decide the fate of Orlais. We only had to stumble across them and we were able to work the blackmail angle even though that's a flimsy as hell basis for manipulating people that powerful. If we're good to bluff that well with such flimsy blackmail material, we could do anything we want to these people. We could convince these Orlesian twits that Corypheus only possesses people when they're wearing masks and that Andraste hates fancy clothing.

 

The point is, a good roleplaying game would have given you multiple options for approaching this problem, not forced you into what basically amounts to an hour long cutscene you have to click your way through with one actual choice at the end. This isn't roleplaying, this is you sitting down and watching the writers play with themselves. Maybe we could have run some war table missions before hand? Maybe we could have earned a few extra power points and spent them gathering various pieces of information or influence or plants among the guests or running bribes, or, if we're apparently so short on diplomatic talent, HIRING SOME FRIGGIN DIPLOMATS TO BRING US UP TO SPEED SO WE DO HAVE OPTIONS!!! The writers could have easily found ways to justify that but what they wanted is for the player to spend a couple of hours being coy at a ball and to have to do that on each playthrough. 

[The Serge777]

I think a lot of people are missing the point. There is only one outcome here.

Actually, there are multiple outcomes here.  You can fight and defeat Florianne or you can use your influence over the court to defeat her in a more subtle fashion.  You can let Florianne kill Celene or not.  Sure, in the end you "battle" Florianne, but the nature of the battle depends on how you interact in court and what you do (or don't do) to save the Empress. 

 

It's a variation on what they did with most Origin outcomes: a more peaceful solution versus a more violent solution (the key difference being which faction would ultimately help you against the darkspawn). 

 

If your inquisitor is a no-nonsense, cut the BS type, then you have to completely break character to get the requisite approval. That's contrived.

No, it's not because you're not required to get the approval to get to ferret out the assassin (or not).  It sounds like you (and perhaps others) see this as a way to win when that's not really the intent?

 

If they are diplomatic, even an elf or mage or whatever, there is a chance to either do it one way, or fail and redo it that way anyway.

Either way there's a choice and the choice comes down to how you play the game.  In my first playthrough, I was intentionally diplomatic because that was the nature of the character.  Sure, I started with a penalty because I was a mage, but the nature of the character prevailed.  In the second (not yet complete) playthrough, I was a noble who, while far more brusque than my first character, was well aware of what he needed to do to acquire court approval and did it, although it annoyed him.  In future playthroughs, Celene will die and my character will fight Florianne and Gaspard will become Emperor.  And another variation in later playthroughs.  It will all be based upon how I roleplay my character.

 

Its like the fact that tall men are more likely to assume leadership roles by default because that's what happens, and so short people then get to instantly redo their leadership qualifications and be tall the second time around rather than have to deal with the consequences of being short.

No, short people have to work a little harder to meet people's expectations depending on what they're trying to accomplish.  So, a mage (or an elf or a dwarf or a Qunari, I suppose) will start at a disadvantage compared to a noble Trevelyan.  That's the point.  The mage does not have to "redo" anything, but has to work a bit harder to have the same level of diplomatic influence IF THAT'S WHAT THE CHARACTER WARRANTS.  They character may not warrant it or, if you're essentially playing yourself and you're not adept at achieving the kind of diplomacy Orlesians expect, YOU may not be achieve the necessary court approval.  And...  Well, that's fine.

 

Not necessarily fair (or even cogent in the story), but contrived to move the plot along the pre-set pathing.

I haven't played a single Dragon Age (indeed, any multipart RPG for that matter) in which there isn't a pre-set path.  Wolves or Dalish elves, you end up with allies to fight the darkspawn.  Sure, the flavor's a little different, but the "pre-set pathing" still exists. 

 

It's funny; this quest is the weakest role-playing part of a game already weak on that front, and it's its like a lot of people seem to confuse a non-combat section for actual...role-play...

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree here.  This is one of the better role-playing areas in a game that has some fun role playing opportunities.  But, to each her/his own.

[Julia4891]

Couldn't agree more. The timer was challenging at times but made sense. I love the change of pace and the tension of this quest. Not to mention the funny dialogues/situations (Cullen, Dorian and Sera - that I didn't like very much until this point - are so funny). And, of course, the beauty of the palace/music helps too. I guess dropping coins and doing this quest Level 18 helped me to enjoy it.

[Biotic Flash Kick]

Honestly you can have all three working to together and basically make them your proxies.

 

why cant you just kill them and take Orlais by force? [low approval]

Where are the evil options?!

 

Let Celene die then kill Florianne, Briala and Gaspard then reveal Gaspard was bringing troops via the ferelden merc. 

tell what briala was doing with that elf girl.

Then have the soldier testify against celene and tell the court of orlais that all three of their leaders were power hungry and you announce that they serve the inquisition because the inquisitor who is new to the game just out played 4 of the best players AND YOU SHOULD BE IN AWE as you saved Orlais from destruction from Corypeus 

 

but only if you are 85 or better in court approval 

 

and if you are a qunari:
YOU SHOULD ALL BE GRATEFUL 

[Hair Serious Business]

I hate any mission with timer in general...and all these dumb masks and my formal outfit is not helping me to like it any more!

[Solar1101]

I hate any mission with timer in general...and all these dumb masks and my formal outfit is not helping me to like it any more!

 

They could have At least given us the formal wear schematic ahead of time and made it a quest to create a formal wear using materials that actually look good.

[learie]

If Bioware are going to do more of these timed exploration quests, they need to make better maps. I had serious trouble working out how to get back to the hall.

Didn't enjoy having to run back every few minutes: it made the "find 11 halla/x coins/ x secrets" really tedious. And the map was really not helpful.

[almasy87]

Can't really see why you guys didn't like it.

As someone said, this is The Game, you are supposed to play it if you want the best outcome. So yeah, if your inquisitor has to pretend to be different from what he/she is, that's exactly the point, you are supposed to lie. If you just feel like you disagree with every single person in the palace, well sorry that is not what the quest is about, it's playing the Game to get the best out of it. If you end up kicked out, well you didn't play the Game correctly as Leliana and Josephine told you to. :/

I did it both as human and elf and always ended with 100 approval. All the secrets you find to give to Leliana make it way easier. Being fashionably late is a HUGE help. Not being a d*ck with npcs helps too. You have coins to toss. Florianne's dance. In some areas, or when you are high enough, sometimes it decreases so slowly it's perfectly normal. If the map looks complicated, pause and check it thoroughly so you know which way is the exit or which way is faster.. 
The point of this map is not exploration, there are other maps for that :/ it's doing quick sweeps of rooms and looting what you need fast so that barely anyone notices that you are gone too long.

If you invited a VIP to your party in real life and they were never with the guest and just kept themselves in a room all the time out of sight, wouldn't you think they were nasty? Consider how everyone is curious about the Inquisitor.. to me it makes sense.

The only thing I agree with is that there aren't enough Halla statues to open all doors and it's not explained properly so you don't realize until the end.. ok, but that's what reloading a previous state is for. In my 2nd PT I had to reload like 3 times to properly reconcile Briala and Celene. Still loved this quest, so different from the rest and very well done imho!

[StrangeStrategy]

Honestly you can have all three working to together and basically make them your proxies.

 

why cant you just kill them and take Orlais by force? [low approval]

Where are the evil options?!

 

Let Celene die then kill Florianne, Briala and Gaspard then reveal Gaspard was bringing troops via the ferelden merc. 

tell what briala was doing with that elf girl.

Then have the soldier testify against celene and tell the court of orlais that all three of their leaders were power hungry and you announce that they serve the inquisition because the inquisitor who is new to the game just out played 4 of the best players AND YOU SHOULD BE IN AWE as you saved Orlais from destruction from Corypeus 

 

but only if you are 85 or better in court approval 

 

and if you are a qunari:
YOU SHOULD ALL BE GRATEFUL 

 

Because then all of Orlais turns against you and you lose all Orlesian support. That includes any existing Orlesian citizens (such as Templars or soldiers) that are already in the Inquisition... Then, while your Inquisition is "taking Orlais by force" for whatever reason, your enemies take advantage of your destruction and win. Dumb. By the way, if you die in the Fade during Champions of the Just you get the whole "Inquisition goes evil" epilogue during the You Are Dead screen anyway. Is that enough?

 

I agree there weren't enough evil/pragmatic choices, but suggesting "Kill everyone then conquer" should be allowed into the story would be awful... That'd just destroy the story.
 

[Terodil]

There is only one enemy. No others will be tolerated.
 

[MikeJW]

Least favorite quest of the game. If you couldn't bull through it relatively quickly I'd hate it even more than the fade section of Origions which has killed many a replay in its tracks. I don't like Orlesians first of all, I haven't read the books so these important people have no more meaning to me than the unnamed part guests and I dislike timed anything in games. I think the timer is what really kills it for me.

[JackPoint]

I'l take my q from the oleasain noble you meet at V's Salon and say"" What a load of Pig ****"

[androniic]

I hate things i suck at aswell.

 

Sucks to be you i guess ^^

[Artyoan]

I liked the political maneuvering nature of the conversations. The premise of playing detective was a nice backdrop.

 

But the limited halla statue element combined with the timer ruined it for me. Keep the approval system, remove the timer, remove the halla statues and let me potentially open every door.

[Cantina]

Court approval is a shitty timer mechanic. It flips around when talking to people. It drops because of your race. It threatens to kill the mission altogether? It goes down while you're trying to solve the mission???? I'll kill the empress myself just to get this stupid mission over with. Where is that option? I have a bow...

 

I despised this main quest. Hell, to be even more blunt, its worse then The Exalted Plains. Look, I for one avoid such events in real life. Hell, you have to beg me just to step outside. Now I'm being forced to endue some bullsh!t party. kissing all these nobles asses. WTF?

 

I got a pop-up shortly after arriving, "Nobles and Mages do not mix. -10 Points." Uh what? My character IS a noble.

 

 

Not to mention the Side Quests are poorly done.

 

You cannot open ALL the Halla Doors. Uh, is this a video game or The Price is Right?

 

In order to complete the Blackmail Hunt, you need to gather the remaining papers in the final room. In order to complete this you need to back track all the way to Lilly in order to complete the Quest. Um, cant I just gibe them to Lilly upon our return to Skyhold?

 

The coins, uh not going to even bother.

 

What REALLY peeves me off is: Here I am minding my own business trying to do stuff around the palace. By the time I get to the point I need the bell rings. UH? Are we in school? Do I get a tardy slip? You don't see my character running around the damn Storm Coast and a fog horn goes off saying I am late for whatever. <bangs head>

 

The dance with the Duchess was just plain stupid. It looked so damn dumb with my female character dancing with her let alone how clunky the animation was.

 

I also noticed minor glitches too. Such as: When you stand and greet the Empress for the first time and your advisers behind you. Lilly is seen walking past and up the stairs to the left of you, yet in the back-round she is still seen standing next to Josie and Cullen. Um?

 

Also the search button works like crap here. Half the time I never see my radar blink, yet if I was not scanning every three seconds, I would have missed something.

 

And I know people will hate me for this but, oh well. I really was disappointed in seeing Morigan again, her whole entrance and need to be there, just annoyed me to no end. Its like, great the person who I thought was gone for good, is here again, bloody hell. If I wanted to see and listen to the uber ****** again, I would have loaded up Origins. Not to mention her shadowing me at the War Table. I just want to shove her out the door. Ugh!

 

I have played many games and I will say there have been missions I completely hate, but this mission, yeah its at n umber one at most hated out of them all.

 

Only good point was talking to Cullen and dancing with him at the end. Aside from that I would have had more fun getting a fork stuck in my eye.

 

OK, I'm done ranting, (breaths).

[Biotic Flash Kick]

Because then all of Orlais turns against you and you lose all Orlesian support. That includes any existing Orlesian citizens (such as Templars or soldiers) that are already in the Inquisition... Then, while your Inquisition is "taking Orlais by force" for whatever reason, your enemies take advantage of your destruction and win. Dumb. By the way, if you die in the Fade during Champions of the Just you get the whole "Inquisition goes evil" epilogue during the You Are Dead screen anyway. Is that enough?

 

I agree there weren't enough evil/pragmatic choices, but suggesting "Kill everyone then conquer" should be allowed into the story would be awful... That'd just destroy the story.
 

if you have the courts approval you can kill florianne and they dont bat an eye 

with high enough approval you shoudl be able to convince that all 3/4 of them were threats to orlais!

[Squeeze the Fish]

I also didn't like this mission- it was a bit like the Fade sequence in DA:O- I dread having to slog through it and I can't wait until it's done. I was initially excited about the prospect, but for me, the reality didn't live up to the hype.

 

_{Still salty about the fem!Inq outfit. Blegh.}

[Xhaiden]

I got through this as a mage with 100 approval while exploring everything and without having to turn secrets in to Leiliana, just topping myself off with coin tosses.

 

What in the world were you guys doing? Pausing to read every book in the library? >.>

[TheOgre]

I am surprised. I really liked this map.

There was a bit more exiting role playing in this map. You know, the way you had to be careful about what you said to whom and when.
And I liked the change from mountains, caves, plains and deserts. It lets you get closer to the center of power as you never really do in games. Celine was masterfull created. Illustrating her age with the skin arround her mouth was perfect, and yet she was still beautifull.

The map it self is a fantastic piece of work. A palace of grace and elegance. I really had this feeling of being there. I wonder how much french culture and history the creators had to study? It was exiting to walk these halls.

The crowd (guests) also felt relatively alive. The atmosphere was created well.

No, this is definetely one of the better maps in the game.

 

Just going to put this out there, being a rude snot inquisitor and trying to stay true to your character gets you tossed out of the party rather quick. Yes it was a change of pace but they shouldn't be so hard on the player from the start. I detest orlaesians. In fact, I think i'd rather have saved tevinter than Orlais. Screw Celene, and screw Briala too, I would have just had both of them killed outright, but no, the best helmet for my rogue can only be gotten with the "happy" ending. 

 

If my hatred for Orlais hasn't come out in full yet, I would have preferred to war on Orlais just to install Gaspard as the true ruler. But that would be far too out of scope.

[ReiKokoFuuu]

i hated everything about this quest >___> to me, it was tedious, tiresome and took too long.  i hated that there weren't enough hallas to open all the doors, too.  however, a large part of the reason why i dislike this quest so much is because i never liked the game or politics (which is why i would hate living in orlais >.>)  honestly, between this and the fade in DAO (which i hated, too), i'd pick the fade.

[Maverick827]

This quest needed two things to change it:

 

1.  No timer.  I feel like this has been common knowledge for more than a decade now, so I don't know how BioWare missed it, but no one likes being timed in video games.  The timed parts of Ocarina of Time are the only real blemishes on what is considered to be one of the best games of all time (doubly sinful, timed ice puzzles).  They may as well have thrown an escort quest in there while they were at it.

 

2.  You shouldn't have to play The Game (cringe).  Sure, if you want "the best" outcome, you should have to play The Game (cringe).  If you want even a halfway-decent outcome, you should have to play The Game (cringe).  You shouldn't get a "game over" screen for not playing The Game (cringe), however.

 

What should have happened is that getting "kicked out" triggers a cut scene that begins by showing you being escorted from the ball room.  With an unexpected but welcome distraction, Florianne takes the opportunity to assassinate Celene.  Everyone panics, you gather your party and kill her.  At this point it's really no different that if you "let" her be assassinated.  No need for a game over screen.

[Ryzaki]

if you have the courts approval you can kill florianne and they dont bat an eye 

with high enough approval you shoudl be able to convince that all 3/4 of them were threats to orlais!

 

Well they gasp rather loudly. But that was more the charm.