183 réponses à ce sujet

[Sah291]

As for Anders example i am sure he is ENFP united with ISTJ, hence the fireworks.

Agreed... Anders always fascinated me, because he's a mage who dislikes Templars, but then Justice is kind of like the ultimate Templar to end all Templars. So he turns into this anti Templar Templar. Talk about turning one's own weapon against them.

[Carmen_Willow]

Solas - INTP.   An INTJ

Spoiler

would have planned for the contingency of not having enough strength to use the orb upon awakening. Perceivers go with the flow, Judgers plan ahead.

.

 

Iron Bull - ESTP -  Strikes me as chaotic neutral, trusts his thoughts more than his emotions.  Doesn't mean he doesn't have feelings, he  just makes decisions based on what he thinks.

 

Cullen - ENFJ - Despite his strong leadership and planning skills, Cullen uses his emotions to determine right from wrong. He has strong emotional boundaries which he will not violate.

[Blackstork]

Solas - INTP. An INTJ

Spoiler

would have planned for the contingency of not having enough strength to use the orb upon awakening. Perceivers go with the flow, Judgers plan ahead.

.

Iron Bull - ESTP - Strikes me as chaotic neutral, trusts his thoughts more than his emotions. Doesn't mean he doesn't have feelings, he just makes decisions based on what he thinks.

Cullen - ENFJ - Despite his strong leadership and planning skills, Cullen uses his emotions to determine right from wrong. He has strong emotional boundaries which he will not violate.

I agree on Bull. About Cullen - could be too, I didn't explored his character in my playthroughts to judge.
Also fun part that someone described his as ISTJ which is wrong, but there is something that would make him lean towards ISTJ,. He is definitely leader with responsibilities type.

About flow/planning, its not always correct. Flow/planning is tied to S/N and mainly F/T functions.
Te tend to plan. Te function in four conscious functions assumes planning and calculating forward on some way. J/P have nothing to do with flowing/planning.

But I agree with you completely on Solas. He is sure INTP. Function check proves it big time. (He have Ti on leading function, not Ni, and he does not have Te in first 4 functions)

[Panda]

I agree on Bull. About Cullen - could be too, I didn't explored his character in my playthroughts to judge.
Also fun part that someone described his as ISTJ which is wrong, but there is something that would make him lean towards ISTJ,. He is definitely leader with responsibilities type.

About flow/planning, its not always correct. Flow/planning is tied to S/N and mainly F/T functions.
Te tend to plan. Te function in four conscious functions assumes planning and calculating forward on some way. J/P have nothing to do with flowing/planning.

But I agree with you completely on Solas. He is sure INTP. Function check proves it big time. (He have Ti on leading function, not Ni, and he does not have Te in first 4 functions)

 

Why ISTJ is wrong with Cullen? I determined him as ISFJ after DAO and DA2 but I think ISTJ might be more likely. I can't see him as ENFJ at all.

[Kappa Neko]

Are you possibly misreading him as a cold/ jaded F instead of just a T being a T? I think most of us in the Solas thread concluded either INTP or INTJ.

Very possible. I don't know any confirmed INTJ, so I can't say what the difference is. You are right that Solas is quite cold. But I took his reaction to his spirit friend as a very emotional response. I thought his passion for spirits came from a very emotional world view. But of course any type has emotional responses, we're all human.
A feeler can be colder than a thinker and vice versa. I used to think I was a rational person and made head decisions for a very long time. LOL. Not at all. I always thought I had crappy intuition. But far from.
Btw, one of my best friends is a fellow INFJ and our minds work exactly the same way. We are so much alike, it's downright creepy. Since I found out we have the same type I'm a believer in MBTI. But I admit that I know little about other types. So it might just be coincidence.

INFJs are both incredibly emotional and coldly detached as a safeguard. Can anybody tell me what the difference is between a bitter INFJ and a INTJ? Not suggesting INTJs are all cold. Just curious why everybody is so sure Solas is an INTJ. Or even INTP?

There seems to be little consensus here. Which is not surprising, considering we're talking about fictional characters that don't necessarily make complete sense. Nor do we always know HOW they think.

[Blackstork]

Why ISTJ is wrong with Cullen? I determined him as ISFJ after DAO and DA2 but I think ISTJ might be more likely. I can't see him as ENFJ at all.

ISTJ have very definitive stuff. They are not sure about own emotions and quite fierce. There is a lot of difference between Culllen and Cassandra. I might prove he is not ISTJ with functions for sure. About him being ENFJ I am not sure either. I need to compare functions of ESFJ to what he havw . He does seems less N more S guy. J for sure, F too.
Need to check it with functions and more deep analysts. As I said I got him aside a bit in my games and any suggestion on him would be nice. One thing I am sure he is not ISTJ. He is more F, and perhaps E type. He is very open.

[Blackstork]

Very possible. I don't know any confirmed INTJ, so I can't say what the difference is. You are right that Solas is quite cold. But I took his reaction to his spirit friend as a very emotional response. I thought his passion for spirits came from a very emotional world view. But of course any type has emotional responses, we're all human.
A feeler can be colder than a thinker and vice versa. I used to think I was a rational person and made head decisions for a very long time. LOL. Not at all. I always thought I had crappy intuition. But far from.
Btw, one of my best friends is a fellow INFJ and our minds work exactly the same way. We are so much alike, it's downright creepy. Since I found out we have the same type I'm a believer in MBTI. But I admit that I know little about other types. So it might just be coincidence.

INFJs are both incredibly emotional and coldly detached as a safeguard. Can anybody tell me what the difference is between a bitter INFJ and a INTJ? Not suggesting INTJs are all cold. Just curious why everybody is so sure Solas is an INTJ. Or even INTP?

There seems to be little consensus here. Which is not surprising, considering we're talking about fictional characters that don't necessarily make complete sense. Nor do we always know HOW they think.

Please show where he shows leading function Ni? He is opposite that that. Ni is in his shadow. He can't be INFj or INTj.
If you go into functions you will find he is more like INTP.

[leadintea]

Yeah I'm actually leaning ISFP for Cullen. Se and Te could explain his bluntness and Fi, of course, is very abundant with him. I also say I over E because he actually keeps a lot of things inside and doesn't really share except to people he's close to.

[Blackstork]

Yeah I'm actually leaning ISFP for Cullen. Se and Te could explain his bluntness and Fi, of course, is very abundant with him. I also say I over E because he actually keeps a lot of things inside and doesn't really share except to people he's close to.

Hmm, messed some, will post soem function insights soon

[Sah291]

Please show where he shows leading function Ni? He is opposite that that. Ni is in his shadow. He can't be INFj or INTj.
If you go into functions you will find he is more like INTP.

Problem with typing Solas is...

Spoiler

He has an alter ego...so in the end we don't really know how much of what we saw was genuine and how much was an act to conceal his real identity/agenda. He's also likely very old...and it's implied he is very lonely, jaded and depressed.

[Blackstork]

Problem with typing Solas is...

Spoiler

He has an alter ego...so in the end we don't really know how much of what we saw was genuine and how much was an act to conceal his real identity/agenda. He's also likely very old...and it's implied he is very lonely, jaded and depressed.

He fails on predicting outcomes of his very serious actions with serious implications. This means he can not , by any means, have Ni as dominant primary function. He have Ni in shadow. Any Ni in primary types do not fit him.

 

Rest is simply narroved to :

INTP  http://www.cognitive...6Types/INTP.cfm

or 

INFP http://www.cognitive...6Types/INFP.cfm

 

Not sure here, but those are only possibiities. 

Seems he might be the INFP dude

failing that INTP

regardless his alter ego

[Addai]

INFJs are both incredibly emotional and coldly detached as a safeguard. Can anybody tell me what the difference is between a bitter INFJ and a INTJ? Not suggesting INTJs are all cold. Just curious why everybody is so sure Solas is an INTJ. Or even INTP?

There seems to be little consensus here. Which is not surprising, considering we're talking about fictional characters that don't necessarily make complete sense. Nor do we always know HOW they think.

I think he's an INTP, but I'm an INFP so of course I can't explain how I came to that conclusion, lol.

I imagine we debate also because few of us are technical experts. I know I'm not. I mainly find the types useful to spur discussion of motivations, and I don't much care if it checks out "scientifically."

As for Solas:
I conlcuded he was INTP mainly based on the Dominant, Auxiliary and Inferior which seemed more like him than INTJ.
INTP Dominant: Introverted Thinking. He's an analyzer, "the mind" as even the writers said. This is his main characteristic.

INTP Auxiliary: Extraverted Intuition. This is what guides the rationality, and what most people see. His dreaminess and the holistic way he puts his thinking into context, painting a picture of a world using poetic language. Lat edit: Also the frescoes!

INTP Inferior: Extraverted Feeling. This is your weakest trait, but it becomes the one you go to when you're under stress. Solas has a hard time putting his feelings into words, but when he's under stress he becomes expressive in ways that seem extreme compared to his usual demeanor, like his vindictiveness with the mages in his personal quest, or his desperate, repeated kisses.

I don't have time to go into it more, but I compared this to the INTJ and decided this fits Solas better. And I'm sure the MBTI experts can correct me if I'm off on any of the explanations. As I said, I'm no expert.

[Blackstork]

Hmm, messed some, will post soem function insights soon

 

Yeah I'm actually leaning ISFP for Cullen. Se and Te could explain his bluntness and Fi, of course, is very abundant with him. I also say I over E because he actually keeps a lot of things inside and doesn't really share except to people he's close to.

I think you right. I checked fucntions of ISFP and i think you are pretty dam right.

[Blackstork]

I think he's an INTP, but I'm an INFP so of course I can't explain how I came to that conclusion, lol.

I imagine we debate also because few of us are technical experts. I know I'm not. I mainly find the types useful to spur discussion of motivations, and I don't much care if it checks out "scientifically."

As for Solas:
I conlcuded he was INTP mainly based on the Dominant, Auxiliary and Inferior which seemed more like him than INTJ.
INTP Dominant: Introverted Thinking. He's an analyzer, "the mind" as even the writers said. This is his main characteristic.

INTP Auxiliary: Extraverted Intuition. This is what guides the rationality, and what most people see. His dreaminess and the holistic way he puts his thinking into context, painting a picture of a world using poetic language.

INTP Inferior: Extraverted Feeling. This is your weakest trait, but it becomes the one you go to when you're under stress. Solas has a hard time putting his feelings into words, but when he's under stress he becomes expressive in ways that seem extreme compared to his usual demeanor, like his vindictiveness with the mages in his personal quest, or his desperate, repeated kisses.

I don't have time to go into it more, but I compared this to the INTJ and decided this fits Solas better. And I'm sure the MBTI experts can correct me if I'm off on any of the explanations. As I said, I'm no expert.

I agree. He might be more INFP tho. I am not sure, but this is close call. Anyways, its one of 2 - either INFP or INTP. It cant be INTJ or INFJ because, Solas have Ni (introverted Intuition) in his shadow (weak function of him, seeing what he did and how he did, misjudging implications), and this function is main strong side of  INFJ and INTJ types.

[Addai]

I agree. He might be more INFP tho. I am not sure, but this is close call. Anyways, its one of 2 - either INFP or INTP. It cant be INTJ or INFJ because, Solas have Ni (introverted Intuition) in his shadow (weak function of him, seeing what he did and how he did, misjudging implications), and this function is main strong side of  INFJ and INTJ types.

I think he's a T not only because he's so analytical and rational, but mainly based on his personal quest. He doesn't care a thing about the mitigating circumstances of the mages' actions. They violated one of his principles, so he wants to eliminate them, and he has no empathy whatsoever for their situation. In fact AFAIK he never expresses any regret or second guessing about that. Also with Cole, his judgment about what's best for him is based on the principle that a spirit should remain a spirit, not based on subjective factors.

[Blackstork]

I think he's a T not only because he's so analytical and rational, but mainly based on his personal quest. He doesn't care a thing about the mitigating circumstances of the mages' actions. They violated one of his principles, so he wants to eliminate them, and he has no empathy whatsoever for their situation. In fact AFAIK he never expresses any regret or second guessing about that. Also with Cole, his judgment about what's best for him is based on the principle that a spirit should remain a spirit, not based on subjective factors.

I quite agree with you here, i also suggested him being INTP at first place before. As i read functions of INTP all seems there being in places. Seems, yes,  he are INTP.

[Panda]

Yeah I'm actually leaning ISFP for Cullen. Se and Te could explain his bluntness and Fi, of course, is very abundant with him. I also say I over E because he actually keeps a lot of things inside and doesn't really share except to people he's close to.

 

 

I think you right. I checked fucntions of ISFP and i think you are pretty dam right.

 

ISFP... Well according the description I have got from couple sources I can't see it. Friendly and social, dislikes rules and enjoys freedom, artistic and creative, lives in the moment, high values and loyal to them.. the last one is only that fits to him I think. I'm still leaning on ISTJ. That's if he's not completely different in DAI.. I know he somehow is but I just can't him go that far.

[Addai]

I quite agree with you here, i also suggested him being INTP at first place before. As i read functions of INTP all seems there being in places. Seems, yes,  he are INTP.

Also, to add to my thinking above, his approach in the romance strikes me also as a T trying to articulate feelings.

Spoiler

His greatest gift to her is information. After he makes the decision to break it off, there is no going back, and he switches to task mode- telling Lavellan to focus on her goal.

As for P vs. J, he puts off decisions so that he can think about them some more. He's an explorer, and he doesn't approach his exploration with a goal in mind, but rather actually wants to be surprised. I get the impression that he can lose track of time. I bet he's lost whole days in dreams and half-dreams (though this is also due to his nature and not just a personality trait). P's emphasize autonomy and personal freedom... no brainer, there.

[Blackstork]

ISFP... Well according the description I have got from couple sources I can't see it. Friendly and social, dislikes rules and enjoys freedom, artistic and creative, lives in the moment, high values and loyal to them.. the last one is only that fits to him I think. I'm still leaning on ISTJ. That's if he's not completely different in DAI.. I know he somehow is but I just can't him go that far.

The free descritpions may matter less than direct function analysis. tho, its still not set in stone. ISFP can be ver ydifferent too, but if we take functions he is quite fit. Or ISTP. I agree, ints not precise.....

 

Tho, if we back to fiunctions i am really lost with Cullen. I said that i am not good knower of him

 

Also lets check this:

 

ESTJ - Implementor Supervisor

 

The theme for ESTJs is supervising, with an eye to the traditions and regulations of the group.

 

Responsible, hardworking, and efficient.

 

Interested in ensuring that standards are met, resources conserved, and consequences delivered.

 

Talents lie in bringing order, structure, and completion.

 

Want to keep order so the organization, group, family, or culture will be preserved.

 

Thrive on organizing and following through with commitments and teaching others how to be successful

 

TeSiNeFi

 

 

Supervisor Guardians are civic-minded individuals who dedicate themselves to maintaining the institutions behind a smooth-running society. They often rise to positions of leadership in service organizations and in their careers, defending the values of the groups to which they belong. Supervisors are strong believers in rules and procedures, and they prefer tried methods to experimental ones.

 

With their outgoing nature, Supervisors are quick to communicate their opinions and expectations to others. They are hard-working, and they take their obligations seriously. Faithful friends and loyal spouses, Supervisors are adroit in social situations. They enjoy rituals such as weddings and holiday observances. While they may seem somewhat formal, they are frank and forthright, showing themselves for what they are.[1]

 

ESTJ?

 

Dominant: Extraverted thinking (Te)[edit]

Te organizes and schedules ideas and the environment to ensure the efficient, productive pursuit of objectives. Te seeks logical explanations for actions, events, and conclusions, looking for faulty reasoning and lapses in sequence. [11] The dominant Te means ESTJs use logical fact-based judgments in the outer world of people and actions. This again explains their behavior and leadership qualities.

 

Auxiliary: Introverted sensing (Si)[edit]

Si collects data in the present moment and compares it with past experiences, a process that sometimes evokes the feelings associated with memory, as if the subject were reliving it. Seeking to protect what is familiar, Si draws upon history to form goals and expectations about what will happen in the future. [12] The auxiliary Si's connection with memory and familiarity leads ESTJs to defend the status quo and procedures.

 

Tertiary: Extraverted intuition (Ne)[edit]

Ne finds and interprets hidden meanings, using “what if” questions to explore alternatives, allowing multiple possibilities to coexist. This imaginative play weaves together insights and experiences from various sources to form a new whole, which can then become a catalyst to action.[13] Ne's use of abstract perception in the outer world gives ESTJs the ability to conceptualize. However, Ne is subservient to the inward, concrete focus of Si.

 

Inferior: Introverted feeling (Fi)[edit]

Fi filters information based on interpretations of worth, forming judgments according to criteria that are often intangible. Fi constantly balances an internal set of values such as harmony and authenticity. Attuned to subtle distinctions, Fi innately senses what is true and what is false in a situation.[14] With Fi in the inferior position, some ESTJs may not make full use of Fi's associations with kinship, personal connections, and congruency of values or beliefs.

 

I think we found him. Oppinions?

[Carmen_Willow]

I could also see Cullen as an ESFJ.  If you explore him more in subsequent play throughs, I'd be interested to know what you think.

 

Cullen is not introverted. He leads and well, he enjoys and gains energy from being with his troops, seeing them develop. Shy is not necessarily introverted. It's more about where your energy comes from -- from being with others (extroverted) or going inside yourself (introverted). Cullen is a natural leader.

 

Solas was easy for me - I'm INTP. It was like looking in a mirror.

[Carmen_Willow]

Maybe and ESFJ. Cullen has deeply help emotional roots that have remained with him through three games. Introverts  can lead, but they usually hate it. Cullen likes being a leader.  He gains energy from interacting with his troops. Introverts can like people and enjoy being around them, but they have to withdraw into themselves to recharge their psychological batteries.  Cullen recharges by being with his troops and moving his cause forward.

[Panda]

 

<snip>

 

 

 

Maybe and ESFJ. Cullen has deeply help emotional roots that have remained with him through three games. Introverts  can lead, but they usually hate it. Cullen likes being a leader.  He gains energy from interacting with his troops. Introverts can like people and enjoy being around them, but they have to withdraw into themselves to recharge their psychological batteries.  Cullen recharges by being with his troops and moving his cause forward.

 

Well he could be ESFJ. I'm little hovering over ISFJ still. The changes Cullen has been through during the games confuse me little cause I wouldn't say Cullen was leader type in DAO and DA2, he was more of follower. However DAI's Cullen might be most close to ESFJ since he seems lot more confident and also takes leading position there. I just wonder how him taking care of people fits to ESFJ as well, like there was comment by Varric that he carries photo of every soldier with him (joke) XD That sounds more like ISFJ quality.

[Carmen_Willow]

Yeah, I envision him maturing into his natural abilities. I also think that his Templar training and education have taught him to develop his weaker characteristics as well. Meditations, classwork on military strategy (which I'm sure he got as he rose in the ranks) all that would help him develop his thinking skills more than the usual F would. Guys too, at least in our society, are forced to develop their analytical side more than females are as a part of the culture. Don't know if that is true for Thedas.

[Panda]

Ah I actually mixed up ESTJ and ESFJ. Some qualities of DAI Cullen fit to other and some to other. ESTJ's are more leader type but ESFJ are more people's person. But there is also question between is he extrovert or introvert. After all I at least see him as quite private person, he likes people but maybe likes having some alone time too?

 

Idk, Cullen is confusing ^^; I keep hovering over different types with him, well at least they are all "sentinel"-types.

[Blackstork]

I sure he is E type, and this do not need to much fuss - just look into Sentinel type fucntions, dig deeper.

 

He is certainly ESTJ or ESFJ. 

Perhaps one who romanced him here (i never did in my playthroughs) can bring some ligth on that.

I read functions and i still see him more ESTJ, than anything else.

 

ESFJ functions is not about Cullen, at least how i experienced him - and because i had not full experience of him, in difference with Cassandra, i cant say who is he "behind the curtains"