119 réponses à ce sujet

[Chernaya]

I never expected I would ally with templars and not hate myself for it.

 

As for the mages, Fiona is the only one on that side who really bothers me. Everyone else was desperate and scared, and innocent for the most part with nowhere to go without being struck down on-sight... and she was a very, very poor leader. I really hope it was some kind of mind control magic, because I just really couldn't believe what she had done and even though I am fine with allying with the mages, I wanted to kick her the **** out of my castle but couldn't.

[raging_monkey]

Im starting to think the damn temps won this MT issue on the bsn

[iheartbob]

I thought this game did a really good job in making it feel very easy and natural to side with the Templars for once. I took me several playthroughs to do so in both Origins and in DA II and to this day I still can't quite rationalize doing it in DA II.

 

I'm very gung-ho pro-mage as well, but as soon as you learn that not only has Fiona allied with Tevinter, but also committed all of her charges to indentured service for ten years to the Imperium (presumably without most of her charges even knowing they will be indentured) ... I had to go out of my way to rationalize allying with them on my first PT.

 

Choosing to conscript them will be far easier the next time I choose to pursue that quest.

 

Feeling bad about killing dragons: I never thought that would happen in any game, but there are a couple of dragons you stumble across in this game that you can walk away from unnoticed because they are sleeping or frolicking unwittingly in pools of water ... and I always feel bad when I decide to attack them.

[myahele]

If only there were more Prof. X type of mage. Too many Magnetos

[dragonflight288]

Im starting to think the damn temps won this MT issue on the bsn

 

So now we can discuss racial equality among the templars and chantry and the Qunari. lol. 

[SgtSteel91]

Im starting to think the damn temps won this MT issue on the bsn

I still side with mages but I hope we can finally stop talking about Mages and Templars. Most of the endings leave the issue in a satisfyling conclusion if you did it right for either the pro-mage or pro-templar.

[MindWeb]

I still went full pro-mage. Fiona's a moron, but I can put up with her, and she seems okay after I made an alliance with the mages. She was the one who sold out to Tevinter, not the other mages, and I'm not gonna condemn them for her action.

[Master Warder Z_]

Im starting to think the damn temps won this MT issue on the bsn

We did.

[Willowhugger]

I dislike the fact you can't call Fiona out on this B.S.

[Char]

I allied with the mages because my Magequisitor was committed to leading by example, and felt that she had a good chance of steering the mages in what she felt was the right direction. She did, however, feel pretty peeved that she couldn't judge Fiona alongside Alexius- but then again, desperation and stupidity aren't exactly punishable offences, and none of the negative consequences ever happened in the end. Went with softie Leliana for Divine but also trained severl of the Inquisition soldiers as Templars on Vivienne's advice. Doesn't hurt to be careful.

It's intriguing though, I am actually tempted to side with the Templars next time, though that -is- a scary thought I've never managed it in either previous game!

[Arachlia]

My first (and current) game was with templar allies, and it is nice that it didn't make me feel like douchebag like in DA2 (where Willow Hawke had some explaining to do for Grey Warden Bethany) ;

 

It took while to make Dorian not to hate my guts after that choice, though

[EmissaryofLies]

Im starting to think the damn temps won this MT issue on the bsn

 

It's as if Bioware catered to that demographic exclusively as it pertains to the issue.

 

The Mage Rebellion is a contemptible, idiotic force that plays the victim card whenever they pick a fight that they can't win. Not unlike the Dalish. 

I actually appreciate how they were represented in game; it makes the transition away from "Pro-Mage" that much easier.

[raging_monkey]

It's as if Bioware catered to that demographic exclusively as it pertains to the issue.
 
The Mage Rebellion is a contemptible, idiotic force that plays the victim card whenever they pick a fight that they can't win. Not unlike the Dalish. 
I actually appreciate how they were represented in game; it makes the transition away from "Pro-Mage" that much easier.

now its just boring lol

[mrs_anomaly]

What I find annoying is that everyone forgets that a bunch of Templars were also ultimately stupid and decided to drink the Red Lyrium kool aid. Each vaunted group in DAI has made horrible catastrophic decisions 

[raging_monkey]

What I find annoying is that everyone forgets that a bunch of Templars were also ultimately stupid and decided to drink the Red Lyrium kool aid. Each vaunted group in DAI has made horrible catastrophic decisions 

its easier to blame the dangerous people who can do magic rather than people knowing or not lead by a demon and taking a warped substance... same crap different day

[EmissaryofLies]

What I find annoying is that everyone forgets that a bunch of Templars were also ultimately stupid and decided to drink the Red Lyrium kool aid. Each vaunted group in DAI has made horrible catastrophic decisions 

 

The Templars are presented as making an honest mistake. Influenced by the minion of a mage no less. They have their own veterans who will fight with you to avenge their brethren. They are redeemable.

 

The Mages are presented as little more than children who are incapable of understanding that actions have consequences. They have done everything wrong and have spurned their allies with their stupidity. Every time I do "In Hushed Whispers" no matter my Inquisitor's disposition I have a natural inclination to imprison the mages. Whereas it seemed wrong to halt the efforts of Templar reformation.

[Ieldra]

They weren't about to be annihilated because the Templars are now under the sway of the Elder One. The only Templars in the Hinterlands are busy fighting the Apostates.

Fiona panicked after the Divine's death and made an offer to have all of her mages defect to Tevinter and become its soldiers.

It's the equivalent of immigrating to the Soviet Union during the Cold War.

She'd given up fighting the war and decided it was better to betray Fereldan and their fellow beings to become Tevinter.

 

It was an outright EVIL as well as cowardly decision.

It was a bad decision, yes. But I didn't want to betray all of the mages for one person's foolishness. Having said that, conscripting the mages and setting up a Circle-equivalent is a reasonable option here. It's just not the one I prefer.  

[Sports72Xtrm]

Pro-templar vs Pro-mage debates are nicely illustrated in the banter between Solas and Vivienne: https://www.youtube....h?v=sogyswGNfAE

As for the the mage rebellion, I think it's a bit harsh to condemn them and most that do so because as Solas points out, they do so because black and white distinctions perverted their mindset making it bias against the context of the mages' situation. I still have no regrets siding with the mages because IMO Solas is correct that such black and white distinctions are a cause of the discord between mages and the general populace and the ending with Leliana as Divine and with mages shows that mages can be accepted by society if they just let go of all these imagined slights and paranoia about them. It's like Plato's allegory of the cave, people are trapped in thinking that mages are the Maker's hated ones or evil incarnate, their spooked by shadows on the walls that are their preconceptions about mages to think otherwise, leaving them prisoners in their cave which is their narrow mindset.

[mrs_anomaly]

The Templars are presented as making an honest mistake. Influenced by the minion of a mage no less. They have their own veterans who will fight with you to avenge their brethren. They are redeemable.

 

The Mages are presented as little more than children who are incapable of understanding that actions have consequences. They have done everything wrong and have spurned their allies with their stupidity. Every time I do "In Hushed Whispers" no matter my Inquisitor's disposition I have a natural inclination to imprison the mages. Whereas it seemed wrong to halt the efforts of Templar reformation.

I totally get your point but you meet several mages who avidly oppose the Tevinter alliance. Correct me if I'm wrong but Lianna and Alexius are literally the only mages that openly and eagerly want the alliance. If you talk to absolutely any mage they talk about the madness of what the group is doing. There are PLENTY of reasonable mages in the DA universe but it's the shitty whack ones that make the biggest magical mage fear mongering splashes. Then of course the ultra dumb decisions. But that by no means makes the mages, as a whole, just one large group of idiots despite how easy it is to paint them that way. Also the mages are not militarily organized like the Templars are. The mages may have voted for independence but I get the feeling, again tell me if I'm wrong, they had nothing to do with the decision to join with Alexius except Fiona. 

 

I'd gladly hang Fiona on a noose if it were possible but I won't condemn the entirety of her group for her idiocy. 

[raging_monkey]

The Templars are presented as making an honest mistake. Influenced by the minion of a mage no less. They have their own veterans who will fight with you to avenge their brethren. They are redeemable.
 
The Mages are presented as little more than children who are incapable of understanding that actions have consequences. They have done everything wrong and have spurned their allies with their stupidity. Every time I do "In Hushed Whispers" no matter my Inquisitor's disposition I have a natural inclination to imprison the mages. Whereas it seemed wrong to halt the efforts of Templar reformation.

conspiracy.... mages are the new cerberus lol

[EmissaryofLies]

I totally get your point but you meet several mages who avidly oppose the Tevinter alliance. Correct me if I'm wrong but Lianna and Alexius are literally the only mages that openly and eagerly want the alliance. If you talk to absolutely any mage they talk about the madness of what the group is doing. There are PLENTY of reasonable mages in the DA universe but it's the shitty whack ones that make the biggest magical mage fear mongering splashes. Then of course the ultra dumb decisions. But that by no means makes the mages, as a whole, just one large group of idiots despite how easy it is to paint them that way. Also the mages are not militarily organized like the Templars are. The mages may have voted for independence but I get the feeling, again tell me if I'm wrong, they had nothing to do with the decision to join with Alexius except Fiona. 

 

I'd gladly hang Fiona on a noose if it were possible but I won't condemn the entirety of her group for her idiocy. 

 

While they may not all be idiots they were complicit in Fiona's actions to the very end even when she hopped the fence in Haven and I cut her down.

 

Fiona's dissenters come across as all talk; where was my Barris? Dorian? A biased Tevinter who up until the breach wasn't involved in the issue?

 

The Templars were drugged and influenced by a Mage's demon. Fiona soberly gave up her people to Tevinter, ignorant of their nature, thinking that making a 'deal' when she had no power in the negotiation would hold up, and she's an Elf to boot.

 

The reasons that you cite for their mistakes is even more damning.

 

But I do understand the need to see if the others would fall in line if you got rid of Fiona.

 

I admire your optimism.

[mrs_anomaly]

While they may not all be idiots they were complicit in Fiona's actions to the very end even when she hopped the fence in Haven and I cut her down.

 

Fiona's dissenters come across as all talk; where was my Barris? Dorian? A biased Tevinter who up until the breach wasn't involved in the issue?

 

The Templars were drugged and influenced by a Mage's demon. Fiona soberly gave up her people to Tevinter, ignorant of their nature, thinking that making a 'deal' when she had no power in the negotiation would hold up, and she's an Elf to boot.

 

The reasons that you cite for their mistakes is even more damning.

 

But I do understand the need to see if the others would fall in line if you got rid of Fiona.

 

I admire your optimism.

 

 

I'm a mage. LOL. I have to be optimistic- clearly Biower hates the mages but my Warden, Hawke and Inquisitor have all been fighting the long hard good fight to turn the tides. We're Atlas I suppose. 

[raging_monkey]

Cerberus

[mrs_anomaly]

Cerberus

I spent ME1 killing Cerb, ME2 badmouthing them and disconnected from IM and destroying the base, and then in ME3 killing them again. Why do you think the mages are Cerberus like?