119 réponses à ce sujet

[Master Warder Z_]

I spent ME1 killing Cerb, ME2 badmouthing them and disconnected from IM and destroying the base, and then in ME3 killing them again. Why do you think the mages are Cerberus like?

You just said.

[EmissaryofLies]

I come across as harsh to the Libertarians because I am tired of their consistently negative portrayals in the franchise.

 

In Fereldan, they destroy the circle and the Templars were extremely understanding down to barring the very doors. In Kirkwall, they were clearly the victims but Bioware found a way to imply that they were blood mages while shoving maniacal blood mages in your face every five seconds. And following Asunder into Inquisition, they make every wrong move in the book.

 

I have to ask the question: what is the point of there even being a conflict when one side completely validates every argument used against them?

[Sports72Xtrm]

I come across as harsh to the Libertarians because I am tired of their consistently negative portrayals in the franchise.

 

In Fereldan, they destroy the circle and the Templars were extremely understanding down to barring the very doors. In Kirkwall, they were clearly the victims but Bioware found a way to imply that they were blood mages while shoving maniacal blood mages in your face every five seconds. And following Asunder into Inquisition, they make every wrong move in the book.

 

I have to ask the question: what is the point of there even being a conflict when one side completely validates every argument used against them?

http://dragonage.wik...ry:_Rebel_Mages

This is what the mage rebellion was meant to be but if you are going to hold Alexius' blood magic brainwashing, time manipulating, entrapment machinations against them then mages will never be seen as anything but monsters in your eyes. Whether it's true or not.

[Jayce]

Because about 90% of humanity, when finding themselves on the crappy end of the circumstances stick, will play the victim card and blame their crappy circumstances on anyone but themselves.

[EmissaryofLies]

http://dragonage.wik...ry:_Rebel_Mages

This is what the mage rebellion was meant to be but if you are going to hold Alexius' blood magic brainwashing, time manipulating, entrapment machinations against them then mages will never be seen as anything but monsters in your eyes. Whether it's true or not.

 

Fiona soberly made the decision, she even confesses this fact, and her lackeys cried out but did nothing.

 

What else is there to say?

[raging_monkey]

I spent ME1 killing Cerb, ME2 badmouthing them and disconnected from IM and destroying the base, and then in ME3 killing them again. Why do you think the mages are Cerberus like?

it was a joke not to be taken seriously. Tbh i do like how the game went overall

[Sports72Xtrm]

Fiona soberly made the decision, she even confesses this fact, and her lackeys cried out but did nothing.

 

What else is there to say?

I suppose nothing. Mages in your play through will be in the south believing themselves as monsters, willingly offering themselves to tranquility and subjugation to their mundane oppressors or be tevinter where they are less stigmatized but still crap. Your world is a crapsack world. IMO a mage will probably try to blow up your skyhold.

[Master Warder Z_]

Fiona soberly made the decision, she even confesses this fact, and her lackeys cried out but did nothing.

What else is there to say?

We won?

[EmissaryofLies]

I suppose nothing. Mages in your play through will be in the south believing themselves as monsters, willingly offering themselves to tranquility and subjugation to their mundane oppressors or be tevinter where they are less stigmatized but still crap. Your world is a crapsack world. IMO a mage will probably try to blow up your skyhold.

 

They can believe what they like; like Fiona, they belong to their better.

[EmissaryofLies]

We won?

 

Oh please, like you guys didn't bribe the writers.

 

I can see you!

[Master Warder Z_]

Oh please, like you guys didn't bribe the writers.

I can see you!

I will hear you acknowledge our victory.

[raging_monkey]

Oh please, like you guys didn't bribe the writers.
 
I can see you!

again it was the ME writers XD

Disclaimer: IM JOKING NOT SERIOUS

[EmissaryofLies]

I will hear you acknowledge our victory.

 

I no longer affiliate myself with these "Pro-Mages"; you will hear no such thing from me!

 

Long live the Imperium.

[SgtSteel91]

I come across as harsh to the Libertarians because I am tired of their consistently negative portrayals in the franchise.

 

In Fereldan, they destroy the circle and the Templars were extremely understanding down to barring the very doors. In Kirkwall, they were clearly the victims but Bioware found a way to imply that they were blood mages while shoving maniacal blood mages in your face every five seconds. And following Asunder into Inquisition, they make every wrong move in the book.

 

I have to ask the question: what is the point of there even being a conflict when one side completely validates every argument used against them?

 

It's similarly to the elves, particularly the Dalish, and IMO it sends a terrible message that these people somehow deserve their suffering.

[raging_monkey]

It's similarly to the elves, particularly the Dalish, and IMO it sends a terrible message that these people somehow deserve their suffering.

dont say that it will attract the extremist lol

[Teshayel]

I just conscripted the mages.

 

I took them on as allies, but I wish I could have sentenced Fiona for her idiotic choices, and choose someone more appropriate to lead them. 

 

As for unexpected decisions, 

Spoiler

I pulled a Count of Monte Cristo with Blackwall: busted him out of prison, and replaced him with a look-alike. But, damn... was I tempted to just let him face the consequences of his actions.

[SgtSteel91]

What I have learned from this thread is that a lot of people on BSN don't believe in forgiveness and second chances.

[raging_monkey]

What I have learned from this thread is that a lot of people on BSN don't believe in forgiveness and second chances.

speaking to the choir lol

[dragonflight288]

The Templars are presented as making an honest mistake. Influenced by the minion of a mage no less. They have their own veterans who will fight with you to avenge their brethren. They are redeemable.

 

The Mages are presented as little more than children who are incapable of understanding that actions have consequences. They have done everything wrong and have spurned their allies with their stupidity. Every time I do "In Hushed Whispers" no matter my Inquisitor's disposition I have a natural inclination to imprison the mages. Whereas it seemed wrong to halt the efforts of Templar reformation.

 

In a sense, that's what the mages are. They've never actually had to work out in the world with the sun beating on their back. They are almost universally hated and feared because of a thousand years of it being taught that magic and mages caused the blight, and if they aren't killed by a lynch mob they are taken to a circle for their whole lives. Vivienne makes a good case for why the Circle's are good for mages, but not every mage has her view. She says it well. They are disconnected. They don't see how it actually is in the world because they are kept separate from it. All they see is themselves and the templars. 

 

Now that they are out and about, whether we ally or conscript the mages, Cassandra has to tell that one mage off who is throwing a fit at how they're being treated if conscripted or complaining on the conditions they are expected to work in, and had to be told straight off to deal with his problems, just like everyone else does. 

 

In the short term, conscripting them or siding with the templars may be better overall, but we should also consider long-term. 

 

Once the crises is over, it still does nothing to solve the issue of mages having the attitude they have now, almost entitled to better quarters and such. Or the mages feeling any oversight at all is too much oversight. It's a bit of a headache but it actually is like dealing with spoiled kids. 

 

And just like spoiled kids, reality will eventually knock them off their high horse unless they're really lucky and keep getting bailed out. 

 

Even if people side with templars or conscript the mages, it's my subjective opinion that the best thing overall is to try and remove, or at the very least limit the disconnect mages and the rest of the world experience by being trapped in Circle's from youth to adulthood. 

 

I have always been in favor of a reformed circle with more oversight and more mages rights, so after playing Inquisition, here's my idea of an ideal circle. 

 

Once the children are brought to the Circle for training, they'll be allowed supervised vacations outside of the Circle with a patrol of templars to monitor safety every now and then. This gives the mages some, limited experience with the outside world and they aren't so disconnected from it, and it helps foster more goodwill between mages and templars if the mages see the templars as guardians and not jailers. It's better to get that perception while they're young so it doesn't fester and blow over when they're older and fully trained. 

 

For families that didn't want to give up their kids, allowed supervised visits for an afternoon or a weekend, or if the family is well-off, the family can go visit. For mages who are abandoned, it would be a non-issue. 

 

A small garrison of Templars should be in every major city to watch out for apostates or children who are born as mages, as well as be available for a rapid response in the event of blood mages or abominations, or even escaped mages. But in the event an apprentice is killed instead of captured and returned, the templars who did the killing will have to be questioned, have a butt-load of paperwork, and taken off duty from the Circle for a period of time. Probaby at one of the garrisons I mentioned earlier. 

 

The Seeker's will do periodic investigations at each Circle once every three months at unscheduled intervals, to check on the templars and how they're treating the mages, and the templars won't know when the Seekers come in. The Seeker in charge of the investigation will have full authority to detain abusive templars, possibly send them to Val Royeaux without lyrium, forcing them into a withdrawal, and can go through the records to determine who is or isn't tranquil and look into the possibility of illegal tranquilization. 

 

One a mage passes their Harrowing, if they wish to leave a Circle to serve the king's army, be a healer in a town, do research out of the tower, all they'll need is the First Enchanter's permission, but must be relatively near one of the previously mentioned templar garrisons in the event things go fubar for that mage. 

 

Mages will be allowed to have families and to raise their own kids, but will only be allowed to marry once they pass the Harrowing. The Harrowing would be like the rite of passage into adulthood, and should be something mages look forward to passing rather than dread. 

 

The Rite of Tranquility can only be used on volunteers or those who are confirmed unsanctioned blood mages.

 

Blood magic and its study can be allowed, but only to Senior Enchanters and only if they get permission from both the Knight-Commander and the First Enchanter and they must agree to being under constant watch if they delve into the study, and they must explain the purpose of why they wish to study blood magic. Whether to look into new ways to heal people, find ways to better combat demons, or even finding new ways to fight and resist blood magic. 

 

For me overall, the problems with the Circle's before they collapsed on themselves was that it was based on separating mages from the rest of the world, and keeping them separated, and guarded by an order of increasingly more paranoid zealots getting further and further caught in an ideology, so the point where many templars took great joy in killing mages. Like the templars who refused to follow Lucius and the Chantry and just stayed in the Hinterlands killing as many apostates as they could, and many farmers and refugees because they couldn't tell the difference between a shovel and a staff (based on one quest). And those same apostates, separated and feeling repressed, became consumed by the feeling of power that freedom gave them that they refused to follow Vivienne, Fiona and the mages of Redcliff and instead tried setting themselves up as gods among men, essentially they tried building Tevinter 2.0 in the heart of Ferelden, whereas most mages wanted nothing to do with them. 

 

Restore the circle's, reform it so templars have a lot more oversight, and mages have far less reason to fear them, and something to look forward to, and most of the problems should go away. After that, it's simply a matter of punishing the criminals and the guilty to the full extent of the law. 

[Willowhugger]

 

Once the crises is over, it still does nothing to solve the issue of mages having the attitude they have now, almost entitled to better quarters and such. Or the mages feeling any oversight at all is too much oversight. It's a bit of a headache but it actually is like dealing with spoiled kids.

Well, fighting a war will hopefully knock some sense into them.

Once for themselves, the second for Thedas.

They can also rebuild the Circles as Colleges if they want.

I do think Vivienne's problem is she's describing herself. Vivienne goes on and on about the Circles and their glory then gets UTTERLY CONFUSED when the Inquisitor, Varric, and Solas talk about, "There's more important things than money and power."

She can't understand that because she's a shallow materialistic person.