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[Master Warder Z_]

you can get an offer of help from Corypheus's descendents who refuse to help him, the Archon of Tevinter himself as well

 

and there is no reason, beyond paranoia, to believe they are playing both sides

 

Did you do the Dorain War Table series?

 

The Senate never acknowledges the Venatori as a cult until shortly before the battle at the arbor wilds, through those war table missions you also hear of SEVERAL altus houses, you know the people that make up the bloody senate, aiding the Venatori.

 

So its Meta gaming, not paranoia, get it right

[Steelcan]

i understand but the vints are andrastian granted a different sect but andrastians so theirs no betrayal

they are betraying Ferelden, and White Thedas

[raging_monkey]

Right.
 
Of course; you have random mages just harvesting children for blood without any legal repercussion in the south.

they just got caught

[Steelcan]

Did you do the Dorain War Table series?

 

The Senate never acknowledges the Venatori as a cult until shortly before the battle at the arbor wilds, through those war table missions you also hear of SEVERAL altus houses, you know the people that make up the bloody senate, aiding the Venatori.

 

So its Meta gaming, not paranoia, get it right

but the government itself, led by the Archon, isn't.  Unless he is also mentioned as supporting them

[Colonelkillabee]

The south really can't wag their finger at anyone no, but I'm roleplaying a southerner, and he'd see it as a betrayal as an andrastian.

Especially since it kind of confirms that whole line where they say mages wish they could rule over us. Going to Tevinter kinda turned it into an us vs them thing. Which it sort of already was, but I was going to help them initially, and Fiona as well as Anders was dead set on making it about that anway. So, conscription, with a smile on my face.

[raging_monkey]

they are betraying Ferelden, and White Thedas

white thedas needs some black thedas

[EmissaryofLies]

Ebony and...Ivoorrrrry!

[Colonelkillabee]

i understand but the vints are andrastian granted a different sect but andrastians so theirs no betrayal

The differences between the two do matter however. Just as the differences between Judaism, Islam and Christianity matter. The difference of Magic being made to serve or rule is a huge one, as is the belief of Andraste being a mage or not, within the role of an andrastian that is.

 

It may not seem like a big deal from the outside, but to them it's huge.

[DuskWanderer]

I always thought the Templar story was the correct one, but inarticulately written. The apostate mages are little more than wild barbarians, and it's their own fault. 

[raging_monkey]

The differences between the two do matter however. Just as the differences between Judaism, Islam and Christianity matter. The difference of Magic being made to serve or rule is a huge one, as is the belief of Andraste being a mage or not, within the role of an andrastian that is.
 
It may not seem like a big deal from the outside, but to them it's huge.

in fairness the vints had the first official chantry (WoT)

[Master Warder Z_]

but the government itself, led by the Archon, isn't.  Unless he is also mentioned as supporting them

 

You mean the figurehead who attends the fancy parties and appoints the folks aiding cory?

 

Good to know he's putting all of his non existent power behind the fight then.

[Colonelkillabee]

in fairness the vints had the first official chantry (WoT)

Which means nothing to me as a southerner Age doesn't make a religion right over another. Not that being right or wrong here is the issue.

[Grondoth]

"Yes there is weakness, there is frailty, but there is courage also, and honor to be found in men, but you will not see that"

 

Tevinter isn't black and white as we've seen based on characters from there

 

That's Dorian, one dude who's whole deal is that he's defensive of his homeland and wants it to change. "Dude from an evil place who wants it to change" has been around in fantasy forever.

 

It's OK for a fantasy nation to be evil. In fact, it's a Good Thing for the genre, as it moves away from allegorical thinking which stymies modern fantasy's growth and appeal.

[raging_monkey]

Which means nothing to me as a southerner Age doesn't make a religion right over another. Not that being right or wrong here is the issue.

oh we are rping? Crap need my costume

[Steelcan]

That's Dorian, one dude who's whole deal is that he's defensive of his homeland and wants it to change. "Dude from an evil place who wants it to change" has been around in fantasy forever.

 

It's OK for a fantasy nation to be evil. In fact, it's a Good Thing for the genre, as it moves away from allegorical thinking which stymies modern fantasy's growth and appeal.

But he doesn't think its evil either.... He sees the potential in it, and the good it has done. 

 

also, lol@ moving away from allegorical thinking.  Tolkien invented modern fantasy and he loathed allegory, so it'd be a return to roots

[raging_monkey]

But he doesn't think its evil either.... He sees the potential in it, and the good it has done. 
 
also, lol@ moving away from allegorical thinking.  Tolkien invented modern fantasy and he loathed allegory, so it'd be a return to roots

really he seemed like he adored it lol

[Colonelkillabee]

oh we are rping? Crap need my costume

Lol na, I just can't help but to share the opinion of the character I play as. I'm not doing forum roleplay during a discussion though. I find that super annoying.

 

But I really do consider them to be traitors due to their alignment with Tevinter, whether Tevinter were the malevolent assholes the Chantry paint them as or not. Especially when they were the ones that started the whole thing anyway. Well, Fiona did.

[herkles]

really he seemed like he adored it lol

Tolkien made it rather clear in his forward to the lord of the rings that it is NOT allegory, he coined the term aplicability for his views on it. But he utterly detested allegory.

[Colonelkillabee]

Seems a silly thing to detest, lol. Sometimes these writers are rather melodramatic.

[The Baconer]

You mean the figurehead who attends the fancy parties and appoints the folks aiding cory?

 

Good to know he's putting all of his non existent power behind the fight then.

 

Non-existent power? The being one of the baddest dudes in the nation is literally a requirement.

[Steelcan]

Tolkien made it rather clear in his forward to the lord of the rings that it is NOT allegory, he coined the term aplicability for his views on it. But he utterly detested allegory.

"I cordially dislike allegory in all of its manifestations and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history, true or feigned, with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse 'applicability' with 'allegory'; but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author."

[Grondoth]

But he doesn't think its evil either.... He sees the potential in it, and the good it has done. 

 

also, lol@ moving away from allegorical thinking.  Tolkien invented modern fantasy and he loathed allegory, so it'd be a return to roots

 

Of COURSE he doesn't think it's evil, that's the POINT of the "dude from an evil place who wants it changed." It doesn't make the place any less evil overall.

 

Also yeah that's the point, fantasy has been mired in poor interpretations of Tolkien instead of realizing what he did. People've been grinding up tolkien and trying to make realistic, grounded worlds instead of letting fantasy just take off and be more than hamfisted allegory. Even Dark Fantasy(ostensibly what this world is) isn't grounded, it just establishes rules of the world that blow and makes life awful for the people who live in it.

[Master Warder Z_]

Non-existent power? The being one of the baddest dudes in the nation is literally a requirement.

 

Political not personal.

[herkles]

Of COURSE he doesn't think it's evil, that's the POINT of the "dude from an evil place who wants it changed." It doesn't make the place any less evil overall.

isn't that southern propganda to make tevinter worse then it is.

[raging_monkey]

Lol na, I just can't help but to share the opinion of the character I play as. I'm not doing forum roleplay during a discussion though. I find that super annoying.
 
But I really do consider them to be traitors due to their alignment with Tevinter, whether Tevinter were the malevolent assholes the Chantry paint them as or not. Especially when they were the ones that started the whole thing anyway. Well, Fiona did.

from a POV sounded logical to me why they allied with the vints

Tolkien made it rather clear in his forward to the lord of the rings that it is NOT allegory, he coined the term aplicability for his views on it. But he utterly detested allegory.

was being a wiseass