936 réponses à ce sujet

[The Baconer]

I mentioned that earlier.

 

This why you need to you know; read folks posts before just jumping in there ._.

 

You say, as you cut off the section of my post that made that bit of info significant. Follow your own advice.

[Master Warder Z_]

You say, as you cut off the section of my post that made that bit of info significant. Follow your own advice.

 

It was already covered. by me.

 

I'll repeat.

 

So it wasn't relevant, needed or informative.

 

You griping about having a bit of your post cut off, that literally didn't say anything my own didn't already cover sounds just like that.

 

Griping.

[Bucky]

*Snorts*

 

Right; And thats because its so pathetic it doesn't have anything going for it.

 

Orlais keeps the south stable, regulates economic stability and lets not leave out them having the best sense of fashion, the Chantry oh and my personal favorite?
 

Them being a military superpower that keeps in check the horrible northerners and nevarrans.

You can't get mad at Tevinter and defend Orlais.  Chevaliers have Samurai-like free reign in how they behave.  They can rape and kill commoners on a whim and without reprisal.

 

At least in Ferelden, the nobility is beholden to the freeholders.

[Grondoth]

Bioware doens't really do Manichaeism.

 

No, they aren't Gnostics.

 

But dawg the Reapers? Cerberus? Darkspawn? Demons? Bioware is very clearly into the good guys and bad guys thing. That's an OK thing to be into. Trying to make everything shades of grey doesn't make a thoughtful story when you're making sci-fi or fantasy romps. It makes a confused story no one can feel good about, which is the opposite of what they're trying to make.

 

Also what were you trying to PULL with that pull? Gnosticism is about the evil of the physical corrupting the good of the spiritual, making the creator of the world not necessarily a dude on the up and up. 

[raging_monkey]

*Snorts*
 
Right; And thats because its so pathetic it doesn't have anything going for it.
 
Orlais keeps the south stable, regulates economic stability and lets not leave out them having the best sense of fashion, the Chantry oh and my personal favorite?
 
Them being a military superpower that keeps in check the horrible northerners and nevarrans.

would it be so bad for that to change

[Bucky]

No, they aren't Gnostics.

 

But dawg the Reapers? Cerberus? Darkspawn? Demons? Bioware is very clearly into the good guys and bad guys thing. That's an OK thing to be into. Trying to make everything shades of grey doesn't make a thoughtful story when you're making sci-fi or fantasy romps. It makes a confused story no one can feel good about, which is the opposite of what they're trying to make.

Reapers, Cerberus, and Demons (in DA) aren't "evil".

 

Even the darkspawn are questionable after Awakening.

[Master Warder Z_]

You can't get mad at Tevinter and defend Orlais.

 

Yes, Yes i can.

[Steelcan]

No, they aren't Gnostics.

 

But dawg the Reapers? Cerberus? Darkspawn? Demons? Bioware is very clearly into the good guys and bad guys thing. That's an OK thing to be into. Trying to make everything shades of grey doesn't make a thoughtful story when you're making sci-fi or fantasy romps. It makes a confused story no one can feel good about, which is the opposite of what they're trying to make.

the problem is that BioWare can't decide on "good vs evil" or "shades of gray"

 

Both DA and ME have them, arguably the only wholly evil faction is the Darkspawn.

[Bucky]

Yes, Yes i can.

Ok, you can.

 

But you can't do it and retain significant consistency.

[The Baconer]

It was already covered. by me.

 

No, you didn't. You acknowledged his power to appoint individuals to the Magisterium, and then jumped to calling him a "figurehead" with "non-existent" political power. However, this is completely ignoring the relationship the Archon has with the Magisterium wherein all the prominent families vie for his attention and support.

 

If you want to call his influence "non-existent" political power, it's because you're being deliberately obtuse.

[Master Warder Z_]

Ok, you can.

 

But you can't do it and retain significant consistency.

 

Really as long as Orlais doesn't explode the continent they would be heads and shoulders over Tevinter.

 

You know the country that doomed the world ._.

[Dean_the_Young]

You mean, the kind where he gets to decide who will replace said Magisters, making his support coveted in the Imperium's upper echelons?

 

 

 

< around 5 minutes.

 

Thanks for the source.

 

-not because I doubted you, but because that was a swell thing of you to do. I'll remember it in the future.

 

 

It's less "I can't rebel against the authority because I promised to sell myself into slavery" and more "Fiona just sold me to a Tevinter host who threw the Arl out of his own fief... Dare I say 'no thanks'?"

 

 

They really should have. Ideally they should have left with the Arl immediately, to better disassociate themselves and the mages as a whole with it while still having relative security, but they also had the window of opportunity, both before and after the veil tear appears outside the gates.

 

I can hold the Templars responsible for failing to detect the Red Templar corruption in their ranks, and I can also condemn the mages for not only making such an ill-advised deal (considering there was no Templar army that could beat the Arl marching on them), but also for going along with the deal for as long as they did rather than resolving it themselves.

[Master Warder Z_]

No, you didn't. You acknowledged his power to appoint individuals to the Magisterium, and then jumped to calling him a "figurehead" with "non-existent" political power.

 

Because his of his only two powers the only impressive one is to Veto senatorial bills?

 

A power which according to an Altus he doesn't use.

 

So basically it seems like he just attends the parties, gets some free booze and that's about it.

 

Him appointing replacement cory supporters after their predecessors are beheaded is the the lesser of the two and is more frequently used, but again according to an Altus it seems he just basically milks it for free ****.

 

So deliberately obtuse no.

 

I merely take you know, the ****Ing Tevinter noble at his word.

[Grondoth]

the problem is that BioWare can't decide on "good vs evil" or "shades of gray"

 

Both DA and ME have them, arguably the only wholly evil faction is the Darkspawn.

 

Oh, I agree on that. It's an epidemic in game writing, it's why so many game worlds just feel mushy. They wanna have it both ways, the way webcomic authors and fanfiction writers do. They don't have the conviction to keep to rules or the finesse to have no internal rules. However, I'd say Bioware tries pretty hard to characterize things as hella evil once they're antagonists. The terrible things Cerberus was doing in 3 land them pretty much solidly in the "Holy Smite Works Against Them" category, and the Reapers are soulless monsters who want to wipe out all living things, even if they at one point may have had some sort of great purpose they were made for. Demons, too, are hostile entities that twist and destroy beings outside the fade and anyone who comes in it. Also don't listen to that gigantic **** up Solas cause everything is his fault.

[Bucky]

Really as long as Orlais doesn't explode the continent they would be heads and shoulders over Tevinter.

 

You know the country that doomed the world ._.

They both want to conquer the rest of Thedas.

 

And neither is a place you want to live if you're not of a certain station.

[Colonelkillabee]

Dorian says first hand that the Tevinter basically only disown blood mages and other power hungry kooks when it's convenient for political gain btw, to bring up something I had to edit in a bit back. The Tevinter didn't side with us and disown the Venatori until it would prove to be beneficial. So the idea that it wasn't as stupid as we thought to side with them seems to run hollow. Never trust slave owners. How many times do we see people siding up with a group they think will sympathize with them only to screw them over later because they can?

 

Stupid mages are stupid.

[Willowhugger]

Also, I'm a little confused at the idea that "evil" requires people to have no point whatsoever.

I think Celene, Briala, and Gaspard are evil.

They have REASONS why they do stuff but that doesn't mean they're ambiguous.

 

Evil doesn't mean one-dimensional.

 

It means you're a bad person.

The Reapers having a motivation doesn't mean they're not RIDICULOUSLY evil.

[Master Warder Z_]

They both want to conquer the rest of Thedas.

 

And neither is a place you want to live if you're not of a certain station.

 

I'd do fine in either ironic as it is.

[Willowhugger]

I wouldn't either if Fiona didn't follow in his footsteps. And unfortunately she forced the war on the rest of them by ticking off the douchebag templars purposefully. It isn't fair, but Fiona made this war what it is. Do I expect them to accept death, no not anymore than I'd blame a bear for fighting back, but I'm still going to kill it if it becomes my enemy. Someone should have shoved a lightning bolt in her or something, lol. The majority of them weren't pushing for separation and war like she was. But that's the leader they got regardless.

 

 

Lambert played just a big a role in the war as Fiona. Lambert wanted to make a statement by arresting the College of Enchanters that the Templars were in charge of the Circles, not the First Enchanters.

Which, they aren't.

 

The Chantry is.

 

Fiona wanted mage freedom but she didn't have the votes to break away from the Chantry. Not even close and if the cure for Tranquility had been shared by the Chantry, she would have lost many of those.

 

It's like that scene from the (movie) V for Vendetta where the cops kill a kid wearing a V mask. They think they're striking at dissent but what they achieve is massively inflaming the situation.

[The Baconer]

Because his of his only two powers the only impressive one is to Veto senatorial bills?

 

A power which according to an Altus he doesn't use.

 

So basically it seems like he just attends the parties, gets some free booze and that's about it.

 

Him appointing replacement cory supporters after their predecessors are beheaded is the the lesser of the two and is more frequently used, but again according to an Altus it seems he just basically milks it for free ****.

 

So deliberately obtuse no.

 

I merely take you know, the ****Ing Tevinter noble at his word.

 

Apparently you didn't, because you missed the implication that his support is what decides a family's continuing prominence within the Magisterium. Everything about Dorian saying he "milks" it for free booze is stuff you literally just made up.

 

 

They really should have. Ideally they should have left with the Arl immediately, to better disassociate themselves and the mages as a whole with it while still having relative security, but they also had the window of opportunity, both before and after the veil tear appears outside the gates.

 

I can hold the Templars responsible for failing to detect the Red Templar corruption in their ranks, and I can also condemn the mages for not only making such an ill-advised deal (considering there was no Templar army that could beat the Arl marching on them), but also for going along with the deal for as long as they did rather than resolving it themselves.

 

Alexius used his time-altering powers to arrive in Redcliffe immediately after the explosion at the Conclave (the point of rewind being the player's encounter with Fiona at Val-Royeaux). A few characters in Redcliffe mention facing a Templar attack, and then in the next minute Alexius pops in to save the day with his Tevinter host, in a stroke of extraordinary convenience. Whether this was a legitimate attack by renegade Templars or a feint meant to corral the mages is never elaborated upon.

[raging_monkey]

Also, I'm a little confused at the idea that "evil" requires people to have no point whatsoever.

I think Celene, Briala, and Gaspard are evil.

They have REASONS why they do stuff but that doesn't mean they're ambiguous.
 
Evil doesn't mean one-dimensional.
 
It means you're a bad person.

The Reapers having a motivation doesn't mean they're not RIDICULOUSLY evil.

they are mages is the primary issue really being "evil" is a excuse that people use to justify the hate lol

[Colonelkillabee]

Lambert played just a big a role in the war as Fiona. Lambert wanted to make a statement by arresting the College of Enchanters that the Templars were in charge of the Circles, not the First Enchanters.

Which, they aren't.

 

The Chantry is.

 

Fiona wanted mage freedom but she didn't have the votes to break away from the Chantry. Not even close and if the cure for Tranquility had been shared by the Chantry, she would have lost many of those.

 

It's like that scene from the (movie) V for Vendetta where the cops kill a kid wearing a V mask. They think they're striking at dissent but what they achieve is massively inflaming the situation.

I don't support the templars, so you won't get an argument from me on that. Fiona, Lambert and the rest of the limp dick templars deserve eachother.

[Colonelkillabee]

they are mages is the primary issue really being "evil" is a excuse that people use to justify the hate lol

Evil or not, which I say not, since they're pretty much as power hungry as anyone else, they're still not to be trusted.

[Willowhugger]

isn't that southern propganda to make tevinter worse then it is.

 

I like the depiction of Tevinter in both this game and "We Sleep" comics. Tevinter is an evil nation, IMHO, but it's an evil nation the way actual evil nations exist. It's a massive slave-holding and aggressively military expasionist society which still has its good points. It appears to be more advanced than the rest of Thedas and I wouldn't be surprised if it's in the (magical) Renaissance in terms of technology versus the rest of the planet.

 

Tevinter politics is no worse than Orlais, except it's done by spells and blood magic.

 

Southerners believe Tevinter is more like Magical Mordor or Menzoberazzan.

 

CARTOONISHLY evil.

 

The Venatori are also supported covertly by large numbers of people in Tevinter, though, because they're an anachronistic terrorist organization.

 

"We don't support [insert real-life terrorist group]."-Nation which has hundreds of backers and a government turning a blind eye.

[Master Warder Z_]

Apparently you didn't, because you missed the implication that his support is what decides a family's continuing prominence within the Magisterium

 

Except for where if they actually hold power anyway.

 

The political infighting determines that.