936 réponses à ce sujet

[herkles]

I honestly expected better from BioWare. Mages causing terror all over Thedas and everyone is suddenly friends. Radical racial change without any education to stimulate it. And everyone just goes along with it. Sickening. 

this is why hardened lelianna is better IMO, she does ensure change, but through lots of blood. More realistic IMO then everyone entering a perfect utopia where racial hatreds are gone almost overnight and the whole mage-templar conflict is just vanished as everyone loves mages now.

[Willowhugger]

At least Balgruuf gave a **** about Whiterun and it's people. Hawke on the other hand is a "Fereldan in Kirkwall". Outside of his family and friends he doesn't give a flying 747 **** about that city.

 

That's grossly unfair to Hawke.

Hawke tries to help the Qunari, the Chantry, the Nobility, the Elves, AND the common folk.

Everyone hires him for help and he tries to smooth it over. He shows almost no prejudices and is a source of great hope.

 

Really, his biggest flaw is he tries to treat everyone as a person rather than picking sides.

 

He's pretty much the UN with a gun.

 

And sadly, about as effective.

The Hawke family motto should be, "Can't we all just get along?"
 

[Willowhugger]

I honestly expected better from BioWare. Mages causing terror all over Thedas and everyone is suddenly friends. Radical racial change without any education to stimulate it. And everyone just goes along with it. Sickening. 

 

I liked Inquisition because it actually showed mage terror wasn't increased despite Vivienne's statement.

The fact the Mages DIDN'T all become Blood Mages and demon-worshipers really undercut the Templars.

Morrigan says apostate is no longer really a dirty word.

Likewise, you hear a lot of common people talking about how the Templars are cowards due to meeting with non-evil mages.

[Master Warder Z_]

I despise the ludicrous ending.

It completely ignores all the issues that prompt such behavior.

It's handwaved under the rug.

[Br3admax]

I liked Inquisition because it actually showed mage terror wasn't increased despite Vivienne's statement.

The fact the Mages DIDN'T all become Blood Mages and demon-worshipers really undercut the Templars.

Morrigan says apostate is no longer really a dirty word.

Likewise, you hear a lot of common people talking about how the Templars are cowards due to meeting with non-evil mages.

We didn't play the same game, because the first thing most mages did was turn to demons and blood magic, or defense under people practicing demon-summoning and blood magic, and then started using it themselves once officially joining them. That also had nothing to do with my point at all. Morrigan does not say "apostate is no longer a dirty word," she just acknowledge that it now applies to all mages, which people are still very much afraid of. And no one has ever called Templars cowards. Corrupt, sure. Misguided, definitely. Cowards, never. Even if they did, the robes have nothing to do with it. 

[Colonelkillabee]

Truest thing Hawke said was it always comes back to motherfucking blood magic. "Oh but I had to get this cat out of the tree!"

[Willowhugger]

We didn't play the same game, because the first thing most mages did was turn to demons and blood magic, or defense under people practicing demon-summoning and blood magic, and then started using it themselves once officially joining them. That also had nothing to do with my point at all. Morrigan does not say "apostate is no longer a dirty word," she just acknowledge that it now applies to all mages, which people are still very much afraid of. And no one has ever called Templars cowards. Corrupt, sure. Misguided, definitely. Cowards, never. Even if they did, the robes have nothing to do with it. 

 

Well, I'm visiting Val Royeux now and a common soldier is telling her Mage associate in the marketplace. "You're a filthy coward for abandoning your brethren."

He's genuinely confused because he'd assume everyone would be against mages.

 

I also think calling the Templars cowards is ludicrous as the game does a good job of showing they're anything but. However, mage sympathy doesn't seem to go down anywhere but Redcliffe.

 

Connor also states that the Rebels have not turned to Blood Magic, which is an immense relief to him. The Tevinter thing is the final straw for him, though.

[Br3admax]

Well, I'm visiting Val Royeux now and a common soldier is telling her Mage associate in the marketplace. "You're a filthy coward for abandoning your brethren."

And? That has nothing to do with acceptance of mages. Nor does it have anything to do with the masses. 

He's genuinely confused because he'd assume everyone would be against mages.

This only reinforces my point.

 

I also think calling the Templars cowards is ludicrous as the game does a good job of showing they're anything but. However, mage sympathy doesn't seem to go down anywhere but Redcliffe.

 

Mage sympathy isn't expressed on a wide scale in the slightest anywhere, especially not in the place where mages came into their homes from their kindness, and then choose to sell them into slavery. There is no wide acceptance of magic, and there is no logical reason for that to ever be. Especially not after current events. 

[Willowhugger]

Truest thing Hawke said was it always comes back to motherfucking blood magic. "Oh but I had to get this cat out of the tree!"

 

Yeah, that is magic in a nutshell.

It would be a lot easier to believe mages could be trusted.

If they could actually be trusted.

It's why my mage is always so harsh on blood mages and other evil doers.

"Stop being so stereotypical!"

[TEWR]

Huh, Connor was in the game? I never saw him in Redcliffe. Where was he?

[Master Warder Z_]

Huh, Connor was in the game? I never saw him in Redcliffe. Where was he?

Dead in the default world state.

[Ynqve]

Huh, Connor was in the game? I never saw him in Redcliffe. Where was he?

 

Yup, he's down by the docks in Redcliffe talking to another man. But I think he disappears after you complete In Hushed Whispers. 

[SgtSteel91]

I actually like the fact that Softened Divine Leliana quelled opposing sects by having peaceful talks and coming to an understanding with the leaders. I like that it shows not every conflict of interest/views has to end with bloodshed and that non-violent methods are as effective as might-makes-right.

[TEWR]

Dead in the default world state.

 

 I wasn't going with the default. I went with my custom one where he was saved.

 

Admittedly though, Redcliffe lagged something awful in my playthrough and I just wanted to get the hell out of there. It didn't seem like there was anything worth seeing there.

 

Apparently, I was wrong.

[Grieving Natashina]

I haven't read the thread yet, but I will.  For now, I just think of it like this.  Each group are both idiots in their own right, and their leaders have have had some of the worst cases of being handed the Idiot Ball I've seen in a BioWare game yet.

 

So, my opinion is about the same really.

[Master Warder Z_]

The Templars don't have a Leader figure in game beyond Barris.

Corrin doesn't count for obvious reasons.

Being in service to the main antagonist sort of disqualifies him.

[Lulupab]

Perhaps the biggest flaw of Templars (most of them anyway) is that they hardly ever question leadership and their orders and when they do its usually too late. Many Templars knew something was wrong, some even joined the Inquisition before the whole 'choose a side between mages and Templars'. However the majority remained, perhaps they didn't care as long as they were given Lyrium (and paid?). 

[StopCallingMeHarold]

Never trust a mage. Thank you Anders.

[TEWR]

Perhaps the biggest flaw of Templars (most of them anyway) is that they hardly ever question leadership and their orders and when they do its usually too late. Many Templars knew something was wrong, some even joined the Inquisition before the whole 'choose a side between mages and Templars'. However the majority remained, perhaps they didn't care as long as they were given Lyrium (and paid?). 

 

I'm sure one could just as easily say the same of the Mages, no?

 

I mean your point is valid. It's just not restricted solely to the Templars.

[ChaosBlades]

I am still on the Mage side. I am a lot less forgiving of Mage screw ups now though. A lot of the times I think "This is your last chance.". But now with DAI the Templars are being pretty stupid as well.

[Willowhugger]

This is where we disagree. If mages had remained as pillar of the Inquisiton a case could be made for wider acceptance. But they leave the first chance they get so they could go back to complaining about their lot in life instead using their ****** superpowers for good.

 

To be fair, most mages aren't warriors but researchers. I think a good chunk remain, though.

[IhateEA-Mask]

this is why hardened lelianna is better IMO, she does ensure change, but through lots of blood. More realistic IMO then everyone entering a perfect utopia where racial hatreds are gone almost overnight and the whole mage-templar conflict is just vanished as everyone loves mages now.

What would happen later then when she dies of the old age?

I mean, if the Pope would suddenly make lot of reforms to Catholic church and everyone who disagrees would mysteriously die, do you think next Pope would keep those changes?

 

Sounds more likely that new Divine would disown her for being blood thirsty murderer and overturns her choices since she was "crazy".

[Kinsz]

Pro Circle pro templar , though i believe mages deserves a bit more freedom.

[Solbranthius]

I remain in favour of the regulation of Mages, especially given what they're capable of if they go off the deep end. I'm also in favour of the Templars being regulated somehow, too, since they've proven to be just as volatile and susceptible to corruption. My stance aligns closely with Vivienne's view, I suppose.