936 réponses à ce sujet

[Colonelkillabee]

I actually miss being a blood mage, lol. It was badass.

[RobRam10]

Not really, always have been, always will be 100% pro Templar.

You have always been a heretic? Good to know!

[Addai]

Aaaand, you lost me. Blood magic isn't just any magic, power corrupts, and blood magic's been corrupting these idiots throughout the series. Even on a lore standpoint this is wrong, considering where it comes from and what its related to. I don't need meta knowledge to judge her, that was for this conversation. Siding with the Venatori and Tevinter in general was enough, and that's all there is to it.

 

Conscripting them is the only smart choice. They'll fight for me or die. And they showed they'd do anything over die, so.

Blood magic is no different than any other kind. The good or evil of it is in how it's used. That's the Chantry's view, whether they acknowledge it or not, since they use it as well. To argue otherwise from an Andrastian standpoint is hypocritical.

 

Nobody knows who or what the Venatori are- she didn't know she sided with the people who want to bring about the end of the world. She sided with people who acknowledge that mages are people. That's what it boils down to.

 

And what does your Inquisition plan to do with the mages after you're done with them? Lock them up and start the whole cycle over again? Good luck with that.

[Willowhugger]

Blood magic is no different than any other kind. The good or evil of it is in how it's used. That's the Chantry's view, whether they acknowledge it or not, since they use it as well. To argue otherwise from an Andrastian standpoint is hypocritical.

That's not really true.

Blood Magic was taught by Dumat.

Solas is right in that it's just another type of magic.

But I think he's wrong in that it's not inherently dangerous and stupid.

 

It's like studying nuclear energy except all books on it were written by Doctor Doom and Doctor Octopus.

 

Yes, you can use it for "good" but all of the information on it is skewed to doing evil.

[Addai]

That's not really true.

Blood Magic was taught by Dumat.

Solas is right in that it's just another type of magic.

But I think he's wrong in that it's not inherently dangerous and stupid.

 

It's like studying nuclear energy except all books on it were written by Doctor Doom and Doctor Octopus.

 

Yes, you can use it for "good" but all of the information on it is skewed to doing evil.

Then that's a question of its practice, not its nature.

 

I'm not sure why this is even relevant since Fiona wasn't telling the rebels to become blood mages. The only other people in Thedas who have created more blood mages than the Tevinters is the White Chantry, by forcing people to use it to defend themselves and by controlling the lyrium trade for their own ends.

[Willowhugger]

Then that's a question of its practice, not its nature.

 

I'm not sure why this is even relevant since Fiona wasn't telling the rebels to become blood mages. The only other people in Thedas who have created more blood mages than the Tevinters is the White Chantry, by forcing people to use it to defend themselves and by controlling the lyrium trade for their own ends.

 

Yeah, I don't think the mages were ever going to become Blood Mages.

 

They were going to be brainwashed into Venatori slaves of Corypheus the same way the Red Templars are.

 

They aren't joining voluntarily, just becoming extensions of his will.

Though the Bad Future isn't a perfect example because Alexius is executed in the "normal" future if he succeeds in his plans.

[Colonelkillabee]

Blood magic is no different than any other kind. The good or evil of it is in how it's used. That's the Chantry's view, whether they acknowledge it or not, since they use it as well. To argue otherwise from an Andrastian standpoint is hypocritical.

 

Nobody knows who or what the Venatori are- she didn't know she sided with the people who want to bring about the end of the world. She sided with people who acknowledge that mages are people. That's what it boils down to.

 

And what does your Inquisition plan to do with the mages after you're done with them? Lock them up and start the whole cycle over again? Good luck with that.

You've been talking to cueball too much. Wouldn't trust his word much when all of this is his fault. Considering blood magic's always used for bad all throughout the series, it's a moot point.

 

My inquisition let them go when I was done with them. You already know my endings. They got roflestomped by Vivienne, but she put them in positions they've never had and got to help rule themselves. Sounds better than letting mages out and about everywhere to me. Besides of course being complete BS. If people really think their Leliana everyone hugs everyone and happy happy ending is going to last, then good luck with that. The mage conflict will never end. It will always be "us vs them."

[TheBigLebowski]

Nope, I still always save the Rachni queen.

 

Spilled my coffee, good one!

[Willowhugger]

You've been talking to cueball too much. Wouldn't trust his word much when all of this is his fault. Considering blood magic's always used for bad all throughout the series, it's a moot point.

 

My inquisition let them go when I was done with them. You already know my endings. They got roflestomped by Vivienne, but she put them in positions they've never had and got to help rule themselves. Sounds better than letting mages out and about everywhere to me. Besides of course being complete BS. If people really think their Leliana everyone hugs everyone and happy happy ending is going to last, then good luck with that. The mage conflict will never end. It will always be "us vs them."

 

1. Solas did raise a good point. "If Blood magic is outlawed, don't be surprised when the only people who use Blood magic are criminals."

 

2. To be fair, I think there's a pretty good reason why it might not be a COMPLETE disaster. For one, in the Leliana ending, the mages have all been working with the Inquisitor and helped seal the Breach as well as fight Corypheus' armies. So they've managed to prove themselves heroes across Thedas even if they're conscripted. They're not too popular in Redcliffe but that's about the only place they're going to be treated badly. Next, the Templars are gone in Leliana's ending so there's no one really to bring up the major problems with this. Thirdly, the mages have the backing of, if not Jesus, then Martin Luther. If the Inquisition is handling dealing with rogue mages, it may not turn into an epic disaster.

[Dean_the_Young]

Really?

It seemed like Hawke was the Kirkwall version of Batman.

 

Except with the body count of the Punisher.

 

Let's put it like this- if Hawke were an NPC and the PC was Meredith, then DA2's story would likely be the rise of a gang leader going from nobody to nightmare.

 

Hawke is, not matter your alignment, a frequent burglar, tomb raider, assassin, enforcer, possible human-trafficer, and bounty hunter who kills people who get in the way, whether the other persons picked a fight with Hawke or not. This is without the canonical backstory of being a mercenary or smuggler for a year, of course. Over the course of the story, Hawke repeatedly seeks more money and power for the explicit purposes of being unaccountable to the law, and increasing their comfort, and sometimes just to have the power to make their preferences a reality. Hawke can also be the proud partner of a private mining effort with a safety record that would make modern corporations blush, and with a partner who occasionally kidnaps and tortures employees suspected of theft.

 

Hawke's assoicates include Aveline, a corrupt guard captain who, after being elevated to the position with the help of Hawke, regularly bends or breaks or ignores rules to get what she wants done, upto and including even paying Hawke to break laws on her behalf. No matter Hawke's potential actions, including torture and murder, Hawke's woman in the guard regularly shields Hawke and Hawke's interests from any legal issues.

 

Varric is a 'legitimate buisnessman' who also has extensive underworld contacts with organized crime, pays off various enforcers, and also runs a professional blackmail network on the side to supplement his lifestyle of ambivalent leisure and occasionally going out and shooting people poorer than him because it's fun to do so with Hawke (and sometimes gets him even richer).

 

Anders is a dedicated insurgent and would-be revolutionary who trades favors for his own interests and who receives protection and support in exchange for a bit of black market medical service on the side.

 

Isabella is a pirate, smuggler, theif, slave trader, and more. Hopefully the corruption doesn't need to be pointed out here.

 

Fenris is an enforcer for Hawke, squating in private property and occasionally tagging along for murder on his vengeful vendetta depending on his mood.

 

Merrill is basically a mad scientist of the Dalish, exiled because she refused to conform or follow their verdicts. She conducts illegal and potentially highly dangerous magical experiments in a populated slum of the city, inbetween tagging along with and participating in Hawke's exploits (and occasional exploitations).

 

Sebastian is the seemingly moral choir boy who puts out a hit list and then tags along throughout Hawke's activities, no matter how illicit, and only draws a line if a certain someone who angers him isn't knifed in the back.

 

 

 

....a little biased in perspective? Sure. A legitimate one, for anyone who doens't view Hawke and crew as the protagonists?

 

DA2 is about a bunch of corrupt people. Corruption only isn't cool when it's people opposed to your own corruption.

[MisterJB]

Nobody knows who or what the Venatori are- she didn't know she sided with the people who want to bring about the end of the world. She sided with people who acknowledge that mages are people. That's what it boils down to.

No, what Fiona did was deliver pieces of Ferelden territory to an hostile foreign power after they were sheltered with full knowledge of doing so because everyone knows that nations don't help others out of the kindness of their hearts.

 

Oh, and if the new Circle system which is brought about by siding with the Templars and placing Cass on the Sunburst throne lasts for another millenia, then mission accomplished.

Eternal peace is unnatainable.
 

[Willowhugger]

....a little biased in perspective? Sure. A legitimate one, for anyone who doens't view Hawke and crew as the protagonists?

 

DA2 is about a bunch of corrupt people. Corruption only isn't cool when it's people opposed to your own corruption.

 

The thing is, the reason Aveline goes with Hawke is because Kirkwall is Gotham City. It is a wretched hive of filth from the top to the bottom. Aveline is Commissioner Gordon and turns a blind eye to Hawke's activities because he kills a ridiculous number of VERY BAD people. Yes. he's an Apostate and yes he's protecting Apostates but the fact is that he's also probably the only person dealing with the ticking time bomb of tensions in the city. The Qunari, the Templars/Mages, and so on.

 

The City Guard can't handle Blood Magic.

The Templars miss it all the time.

Hawke doesn't.

Hawke also deals with Templar paramilitary hate crimes.

[Addai]

You've been talking to cueball too much. Wouldn't trust his word much when all of this is his fault. Considering blood magic's always used for bad all throughout the series, it's a moot point.
 
My inquisition let them go when I was done with them. You already know my endings. They got roflestomped by Vivienne, but she put them in positions they've never had and got to help rule themselves. Sounds better than letting mages out and about everywhere to me. Besides of course being complete BS. If people really think their Leliana everyone hugs everyone and happy happy ending is going to last, then good luck with that. The mage conflict will never end. It will always be "us vs them."

I've played blood mages in both of the first 2 games, so this was always my opinion. You're listening to Wynne too much, lol. The Andrastians are blind hypocrites, with too much power to realize their worldview could use some tweaking.
 
I already said I do agree that the White Andrastian lands need some form of Circle, as a necessary evil. Having a mage be Divine in the first place shows how much things have changed, to the point that in my mind it stretches plausibility, but we'll see how things work out.

No, what Fiona did was deliver pieces of Ferelden territory to an hostile foreign power after they were sheltered with full knowledge of doing so because everyone knows that nations don't help others out of the kindness of their hearts.
 
Oh, and if the new Circle system which is brought about by siding with the Templars and placing Cass on the Sunburst throne lasts for another millenia, then mission accomplished.
Eternal peace is unnatainable.

They're leaving for Tevinter, how is that "delivering Ferelden to Tevinter"? A bit dramatic.

As for who becomes Divine, I don't really care. The fate of the Chantry doesn't interest me much.

[Willowhugger]

I've played blood mages in both of the first 2 games, so this was always my opinion. You're listening to Wynne too much, lol. The Andrastians are blind hypocrites, with too much power to realize their worldview could use some tweaking.

 

I already said I do agree that the White Andrastian lands need some form of Circle, as a necessary evil. Having a mage be Divine in the first place shows how much things have changed, to the point that in my mind it stretches plausibility, but we'll see how things work out.

The depiction of the game is kind of weird, isn't it?

Mages are treated as people with broad public sympathy in some places.

While we have that Creatures Girl talk about how she was almost stoned to death as a seven year old.

[Dean_the_Young]

The thing is, the reason Aveline goes with Hawke is because Kirkwall is Gotham City. It is a wretched hive of filth from the top to the bottom. Aveline is Commissioner Gordon and turns a blind eye to Hawke's activities because he kills a ridiculous number of VERY BAD people. Yes. he's an Apostate and yes he's protecting Apostates but the fact is that he's also probably the only person dealing with the ticking time bomb of tensions in the city. The Qunari, the Templars/Mages, and so on.

 

Aveline would only be comparable to Commissioner Gordon if Batman were a highway man who kills lots of people to sell their breeches and call it a Tuesday, after breaking into private houses and knicking all the stuff he could carry out on Monday (after killing everyone who tries to stop him for a bit of extra XP).

 

 

Of course, I don't think Commissioner Gordon ever participated in such murder-burglaries either.

[Willowhugger]

Aveline would only be comparable to Commissioner Gordon if Batman were a highway man who kills lots of people to sell their breeches and call it a Tuesday, after breaking into private houses and knicking all the stuff he could carry out on Monday (after killing everyone who tries to stop him for a bit of extra XP).

 

Of course, I don't think Commissioner Gordon ever participated in such murder-burglaries either.

 

To be fair, said breeches belonged to homicidal maniacs who ate lyrium and force fed their servants to their soldiers.

Sorry Bartram but it's true.

[Colonelkillabee]

I've played blood mages in both of the first 2 games, so this was always my opinion. You're listening to Wynne too much, lol. The Andrastians are blind hypocrites, with too much power to realize their worldview could use some tweaking. I already said I do agree that the White Andrastian lands need some form of Circle, as a necessary evil. Having a mage be Divine in the first place shows how much things have changed, to the point that in my mind it stretches plausibility, but we'll see how things work out.

you can call them hypocrites till the cows come home, but it doesn't help the fact that the people who say blood magic is just magic, never use blood magic themselves. Which I find very suspicious. Morrigan? Nope. Solas? Nope. Why is that? Because they know better. Dragon age 2 was pretty much all about hey! Stop using blood magic!

I always used to. The only people badass enough to use it and not get screwed somewhere down the line is the player character.

And I know you agreed with that, but it's not just necessary in the south. Everyone has some form of control. Your Dalish even throw their mages to the circles when they get too many. Tevinter? They just use them for sacrifice, or slaves, or whatever.

[MisterJB]

They're leaving for Tevinter, how is that "delivering Ferelden to Tevinter"? A bit dramatic.

The fact that Alexius kicked Teagan out and took his castle and village for himself?

[Willowhugger]

you can call them hypocrites till the cows come home, but it doesn't help the fact that the people who say blood magic is just magic, never use blood magic themselves. Which I find very suspicious. Morrigan? Nope. Solas? Nope. Why is that? Because they know better. Dragon age 2 was pretty much all about hey! Stop using blood magic!

 

Morrigan says, "I know a lot of weird arcane secrets. Some of which is blood magic. That doesn't mean a thing, though."

 

I can't say I'm surprised.
 

[Willowhugger]

The fact that Alexius kicked Teagan out and took his castle and village for himself?

 

That's hardly the worst thing they did.

 

The mass murder of Tranquil tops that.

Shouldn't they be curing those guys?

 

The fact they didn't is suspicious.

My view of the Tranquil are they're people suffering a condition, not that they're not people.

 

This is like ordering all the people with autism up and having them turned into spyglasses.

[Addai]

you can call them hypocrites till the cows come home, but it doesn't help the fact that the people who say blood magic is just magic, never use blood magic themselves. Which I find very suspicious. Morrigan? Nope. Solas? Nope. Why is that? Because they know better. Dragon age 2 was pretty much all about hey! Stop using blood magic!

Morrigan uses blood magic.

The fact that Alexius kicked Teagan out and took his castle and village for himself?

As far as Fiona knows, she's made a deal for all of them to pick up and go to Tevinter. They're not talking about setting up a fiefdom in Ferelden. They kick the arl out but I don't think anyone expected it to be permanent. No one knows about Corypheus' invisible hand.

[Willowhugger]

As far as Fiona knows, she's made a deal for all of them to pick up and go to Tevinter. They're not talking about setting up a fiefdom in Ferelden. They kick the arl out but I don't think anyone expected it to be permanent. No one knows about Corypheus' invisible hand.

 

Good intentions and a cookie, will get you +1 Sten approval.

 

I think it says a lot that even in-game the reaction from Connor and a good two-thirds of the mages you talk to is stunned disbelief.

 

Vivienne, Solas, Cassandra, and your Mage Inquisitor can all react with stunned disbelief. It's quite, literally, the only time the three will ever all agree.

 

I don't assume making a deal with Tevinter was inherently immoral.

Though it was.

 

It was just a BAD decision based on fear and a lack of foresight.

 

WHO COULD HAVE GUESSED Alexius would betray them?

The Inquisitor says, "ANYONE WHO LOOKS AT HIM."

 

Fiona's decision was based on her fear and hatred of the Templars since the barest sending out of scouts would have confirmed the Templars are in ruins.

[Colonelkillabee]

Morrigan uses blood magic.
 

She can use blood magic in the game of Origins if you make her. I've never seen her canonically actually do it though. And even if she did, well, we saw how careful she is, lol. Well of Sorrows.

 

And another thing, regardless of what you think about blood magic, no one can deny Tevinter use it for nefarious purposes, so the point is again moot.

 

Also, am I the only one that thinks it funny that the Dalish give their mages to circles or just cast them out on their own? Between that, the Qunari, and the Tevinter that use weaker mages for their own purposes, no one has room to point fingers at the chantry.

 

[Willowhugger]

This along with many things regarding Dumat and the Old Gods in general can be disputed. Way to parrot Chantry propaganda though. I expected better Magneto.

 

Listen, I don't agree with the Chantry about 90%.

 

However, Dumat is kind of hard to ignore.

 

I mean, you have the option at one point to fight with swords made from his bones.

 

It's a bit like being an atheist Transformer.

 

It's hard when Unicron, the Robot Devil, is trying to eat your planet.

 

Besides the other source of Blood Magic we know about is demons. Avernus is probably the only human on the planet who has ever done serious research on the subject and he probably learned Blood Magic from demons.

 

And you know what his conclusions were?

"Blood magic from demons is stupid. Use Blight magic instead."