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[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Unhardened Leliana as the divine is the synthesis ending of Dragon Age.

 

"And then everyone lived happily ever after,"

[Dean_the_Young]

And can we talk about how BS that spy network of hers is. Really, how the hell does anyone set up something so far reaching. Had a character like that in an RP, and they only did that with the help of a Daedric Lord. What's Bioware's excuse for such Mary Sue?

 

Faith. Or religious zealotry, if you prefer.

 

Not as strange as you might think. People think they're doing good for the Maker by doing good for Leliana and her people, whatever she asks. Need someone knocked off for the good of Thedas? You're doing the Maker's work. Passing on information? Andraste will favor you, and you get yourself on that better path in the Afterlife.

[Colonelkillabee]

I know exactly what happened and I think the ban wasn't sudden at all but the change was.

The desire for Mage freedom and elven rights has been there a long time.

It's just not been given an opportunity to flourish.

Obviously the change was sudden, because the law forced it to. How people felt about that however did not change, and it's taken quite some time for black american life to improve despite this sudden change. The ban on segregation didn't cause the change in attitude of people, it was the symptom of people's minds already changing.

 

However, in Dragon Age Leliana doesn't have that. She forces this on her own from her own ideals due to the lack of opposition purely.

[Willowhugger]

Unhardened Leliana as the divine is the synthesis ending of Dragon Age.

 

"And then everyone lived happily ever after,"

 

I'm going to look like an idiot but I admit, it doesn't feel like "Dragon Age."

 

Dragon Age is, usually, "You can get what you want done but some bad **** happens as a result."

Bhelen is King is how "good" reform happens.

 

So, you got me.

Leliana with knives should be canon.

I submit.

[Colonelkillabee]

Faith. Or religious zealotry, if you prefer.

 

Not as strange as you might think. People think they're doing good for the Maker by doing good for Leliana and her people, whatever she asks. Need someone knocked off for the good of Thedas? You're doing the Maker's work. Passing on information? Andraste will favor you, and you get yourself on that better path in the Afterlife.

Even in a place so faithful, or zealous if you will, I just have a very hard time believing that the chantry could get so powerful. It's mind boggling really. She could probably tell you how many ball hairs I have with how ridiculous her spy network is. Who doesn't she know would be easier to answer.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

I'm going to look like an idiot but I admit, it doesn't feel like "Dragon Age."

Dragon Age is, usually, "You can get what you want done but some bad **** happens as a result."

Bhelen is King is how "good" reform happens.

 

It's why I am more tolerable of the hardened Leliana version. At least there, you know the road to get there was built on a pile of corpses.

[Willowhugger]

Even in a place so faithful, or zealous if you will, I just have a very hard time believing that the chantry could get so powerful. It's mind boggling really. She could probably tell you how many ball hairs I have with how ridiculous her spy network is. Who doesn't she know would be easier to answer.

 

While kind of super-competent, I also point out there's some precedent.

It would make more sense if the Inquisition had a lot of money to do bribes, though.

Sera is right, though, that spying is very very easy in Thedas.

 

Because most people ignore servants.

[Willowhugger]

It's why I am more tolerable of the hardened Leliana version. At least there, you know the road to get there was built on a pile of corpses.

Yeah, that should be the "price" for Elfdom and Mage freedom.

 

In the words of Baron Wulfenbach.

"No compromises, no negotiations, and no deals. We did it MY way."

"And it worked."

[Colonelkillabee]

They pretty much made her Jesus by having her come back from the dead, so I'm not surprised it worked.

 

I didn't kill her on my canon warden, but if I did, I'd **** my insides out from amazement at the level of bs.

[EmissaryofLies]

Yeah, I didn't like that. 

[MightyZan]

Yeah, that should be the "price" for Elfdom and Mage freedom.

 

In the words of Baron Wulfenbach.

"No compromises, no negotiations, and no deals. We did it MY way."

"And it worked."

I love that you quoted a Girl Genius character.

[Willowhugger]

I love that you quoted a Girl Genius character.

If it were real and the hardened way, they'd probably call her Bloody Lilly for centuries.

And even then not really question she was trying to do good things.

[Addai]

She can use blood magic in the game of Origins if you make her. I've never seen her canonically actually do it though. And even if she did, well, we saw how careful she is, lol. Well of Sorrows.
 
And another thing, regardless of what you think about blood magic, no one can deny Tevinter use it for nefarious purposes, so the point is again moot.
 
Also, am I the only one that thinks it funny that the Dalish give their mages to circles or just cast them out on their own? Between that, the Qunari, and the Tevinter that use weaker mages for their own purposes, no one has room to point fingers at the chantry.

The Dark Ritual is blood magic, as she tells you herself in Origins. Non-maleficarum use their magic for bad purposes, too, so the only argument against blood magic is an Andrastian taboo that I reject.

The Dalish don't universally do that to young mages, since you have an option to tell Minaeve that your clan doesn't do it. And I think it's a BS development anyway. There's no way the Dalish should have the same kind of hang-ups about mages as those influenced by the Chantry have.

Fiona is not very smart but even she is not that stupid.
You invite a superiorly armed foreign force into your territory or, at least, a portion of it and you know bad things are going to happen.
If you're lucky, you end up with "just" the foreign soldiers taking liberties with the local populace. At worst, you are occupied which is what happened.

It's not a "force." It's Alexius, his son and a few mages. Fiona can't know about the Venatori moving in on other parts of Orlais and Ferelden. "Just send a few scouts out..." Well, you know, that's hard to do when you're under siege. As Cole would say, someone was trying to kill me at the time, that makes it harder.

I have yet to hear any realistic alternative to Fiona's decision.

[Colonelkillabee]

The Dark Ritual is blood magic, as she tells you herself in Origins. Non-maleficarum use their magic for bad purposes, too, so the only argument against blood magic is an Andrastian taboo that I reject.

The Dalish don't universally do that to young mages, since you have an option to tell Minaeve that your clan doesn't do it. And I think it's a BS development anyway. There's no way the Dalish should have the same kind of hang-ups about mages as those influenced by the Chantry have.

Well like I said, she shows just how well her attitude will serve you with that well. As do the grand majority of blood mages we've seen in the story. The point is that the Tevinter use their magic for negative purposes, so it is still damning to go to them. Fenris, anyone. DA 2 made it rather obvious how the grand majority of blood mages use their craft. So did Origins with the alienage.

 

As for the Dalish, people can call it BS but they do do this, even if all of them don't, so that point is still valid. No one has a better answer. Doesn't make it right, but it's worth noting. Is it really so crazy that the Dalish agree with the humans on the matter?

[Willowhugger]

The Dalish don't universally do that to young mages, since you have an option to tell Minaeve that your clan doesn't do it. And I think it's a BS development anyway. There's no way the Dalish should have the same kind of hang-ups about mages as those influenced by the Chantry have.

 

In the Dalish's defense, it's mostly because of the Chantry. They'll mostly ignore one mage in a wandering clan as a minor threat at best.

 

However, if there were like fifteen mages?

They'd call an army down.

 

I think it's also some power politics B.S. too. If more than the Keeper and First have magic, then the clan gets power issues.

[Colonelkillabee]

Which really makes them no better. I understand why the Dalish do it though and I agree for them in their way of life it's a necessity.

[Colonelkillabee]

I have yet to hear any realistic alternative to Fiona's decision.

That's really on you then.

[Willowhugger]

That's really on you then.

"Say no."

Also, look for Tevinter agents.

[Colonelkillabee]

My mama always told me, no means no, lol. So I say it. I say it and I say it loud.

[MisterJB]

It's not a "force." It's Alexius, his son and a few mages. Fiona can't know about the Venatori moving in on other parts of Orlais and Ferelden. "Just send a few scouts out..." Well, you know, that's hard to do when you're under siege. As Cole would say, someone was trying to kill me at the time, that makes it harder.

I have yet to hear any realistic alternative to Fiona's decision.

If they have enough strenght to place one of the most defensible castles in Ferelden under their control and envict the Arl, then obviously it's a force.

 

As for realistic alternatives, joining Vivienne's faction of mages who happen to be mages who remained loyal and; wonder of wonders, weren't all killed; is always an option.

 

Another alternative would be allowing the Ferelden army to actually do their duty. Since Alistair and Anora placed them under the crown's protection and if Templars were indeed coming to attack Redcliff (and they weren't) which happens to be Ferelden territory, then it becomes the crown's duty to fight your enemies for you.

They could have even helped Teagan's forces hold off these hypothetical Templars until Alistair arrived thus earning massive Approval Ranting.

Instead, invite the one country in Thedas everyone hates thus proving the Templars and Chantry were right all along and force Alistair and Anora to bring their army down on your heads instead.

 

[Colonelkillabee]

Thank you. How is simply not treating Ferelden as an enemy and allying with them not a viable option. They're right there.

[EmissaryofLies]

 

As for realistic alternatives, joining Vivienne's faction of mages who happen to be mages who remained loyal and; wonder of wonders, weren't all killed; is always an option.

 

 

This alone shits on the "Fiona was behind it all" argument; if her mages were so unhappy, why not throw in with Vivienne? Why not talk to the Inquisitor and set something up?

[Colonelkillabee]

This alone shits on the "Fiona was behind it all" argument; if her mages were so unhappy, why not throw in with Vivienne? Why not talk to the Inquisitor and set something up?

Indeed. I mean, I think she contributed to it by a large margin, but no one forced them to keep following the idiot pushing for suicide. That was 100 percent on them.

[Willowhugger]

If they have enough strength to place one of the most defensible castles in Ferelden under their control and envict the Arl, then obviously it's a force.

 

As for realistic alternatives, joining Vivienne's faction of mages who happen to be mages who remained loyal and; wonder of wonders, weren't all killed; is always an option.

 

Another alternative would be allowing the Ferelden army to actually do their duty. Since Alistair and Anora placed them under the crown's protection and if Templars were indeed coming to attack Redcliff (and they weren't) which happens to be Ferelden territory, then it becomes the crown's duty to fight your enemies for you.

They could have even helped Teagan's forces hold off these hypothetical Templars until Alistair arrived thus earning massive Approval Ranting.

Instead, invite the one country in Thedas everyone hates thus proving the Templars and Chantry were right all along and force Alistair and Anora to bring their army down on your heads instead.

 

1. Yes. The Templars are also devastated by the Conclave explosion too. The idea they're prepping for some massive attack is like Hitler attacking the USA after Berlin falls.

 

2. Vivienne kind of brushes it off but the Loyalists had to fight and kill the Rebellious mages. They're murderers of their own kind. Fiona couldn't know it, of course, but the Templars were also now all under the control of a madman.

 

3. I agree, Alistair isn't going to sit by while a Templar army marches on them because the Templars are going to be RED TEMPLARS.

 

Another thing Fiona could be doing is fighting those Apostate bandits or reigning them in.

You can't expect people to like mages if you let mages murder them.

[Willowhugger]

This alone shits on the "Fiona was behind it all" argument; if her mages were so unhappy, why not throw in with Vivienne? Why not talk to the Inquisitor and set something up?

 

Vivienne's solution was to murder her fellow mages.

 

Vivienne's mages are renegades.

 

The price of their freedom was to ally with the Templars against the Mages.

Which is just BS because the Loyalists agreed to abide by whatever vote the conclave reached.

"You fight your fellow mages?"

"WHY OF COURSE, Darling. The price of loyalty to the Chantry is to show your support against the rebellion."

 

Which was like for me:

"The Herald Greatly Disapproves."