936 réponses à ce sujet

[Colonelkillabee]

It doesn't take hundreds of mages or dozens of ships for Alexius and his household to get to Ferelden. People don't know that there are any more Tevinter around than these. It's not apparent that Tevinter is up to anything until Corypheus shows his hand and Dorian reveals that there's a splinter faction that's making a god gambit to take over Thedas. You're expecting Fiona to have metaknowledge she can't possibly have. She didn't play Dragon Age Inquisition.

The only thing that matters is giving redcliffe to them makes her a bastard and proves the chantry right about mages when they're desperate.

 

She wants to restore the Circle and bring mages back under templar control. Like I said earlier, it's Irving all over again. Irving was always trying to work within the system, which brought the mages to the point of being annulled.

And she wants to do so with changes attached. She doesn't trust the Templars. Saying she is the templars is a gross overstatement and plain wrong. Templars are needed. And she is so much more boss than Irving. She eventually rules the templars, not the other way around. That, is awesome. I as a mage can get behind that, even if it's surely temporary like all the other end results.

[Sports72Xtrm]

The only thing that matters is giving redcliffe to them makes her a bastard and proves the chantry right about mages when they're desperate.

A Self fulfilling prophesy. the true moral of the mage-templar war is like the Kirkwall rebellion, the more templars squeeze more mages rebel. A vicious cycle of pushing mages until they blow and templars using it as justification to cow them. there will always be libertarians, just as there will always be tal-vashoth. A never ending war until a Blight or some other alien foreign army takes advantage of the discord in thedas to wipe them all out.

[Colonelkillabee]

A Self fulfilling prophesy. the true moral of the mage-templar war is like the Kirkwall rebellion, the more templars squeeze more mages rebel. A vicious cycle of pushing mages until they blow and templars using it as justification to cow them. there will always be libertarians, just as there will always be tal-vashoth. A never ending war until a Blight or some other alien foreign army takes advantage of the discord in thedas to wipe them all out.

I don't deal in morals. And again, I don't give two shits about justifying templars. They were wrong, but that doesn't excuse Fiona and the rebel's actions. If the templars are to be judged harshly, so are those punk ass mages.

[Addai]

And she wants to do so with changes attached. She doesn't trust the Templars. Saying she is the templars is a gross overstatement and plain wrong. Templars are needed. And she is so much more boss than Irving. She eventually rules the templars, not the other way around. That, is awesome. I as a mage can get behind that, even if it's surely temporary like all the other end results.

You're talking about an outcome that is far in the future and not even on the horizon when Fiona makes her decision. Vivienne hates Fiona and all her ilk. She's ready to call in the templars- if there were any- the minute you side with the mages.

[Colonelkillabee]

You're talking about an outcome that is far in the future and not even on the horizon when Fiona makes her decision. Vivienne hates Fiona and all her ilk. She's ready to call in the templars- if there were any- the minute you side with the mages.

And vivienne would have been right. Fiona should have sat her ass down, open up a dictionary and look up a word called "tact" and "timing", of which this was the wrong timing. She pretty much sabotaged all efforts to put the mages ahead.

[Colonelkillabee]

My mistake, didn't see you said after siding with them. Doesn't change what I said though, Fiona in the beginning was an idiot and should have listened to Viv. And she proved to be one all throughout the conflict. She doesn't deserve your trust. And even though the ending obviously was in the way unforetold future, it still shows that what she tells you about her view on templars was true and there's no reason not to believe her.

 

If she told us that she doesn't trust the templars but sees their importance, why wouldn't she have said the same thing elsewhere. It's perfectly sensible.

[The Baconer]

Again, with Fiona's personal history as a slave during her childhood, I find it hard to believe she would take a random Magister's word of "There's a Templar army right over there! If you bind yourselves to indentured servitude, I will save you from the Templar army that's right over that hill!"

[herkles]

Again, with Fiona's personal history as a slave during her childhood, I find it hard to believe she would take a random Magister's word of "There's a Templar army right over there! If you bind yourselves to indentured servitude, I will save you from the Templar army that's right over that hill!"

this time slavery won't be so bad everyone! I should know I was a slave!

[Colonelkillabee]

I think that history also made her prone to rash decisions, which is also tragic due to her history with that count.

[Barquiel]

Vivienne fails to acknowledge that Lambert had no interest in any kind of compromise (according to Cole, he also planned to overthrow the divine). Things would have gotten worse for the mages if Fiona hadn't rebelled.

[Colonelkillabee]

Vivienne fails to acknowledge that Lambert had no interest in any kind of compromise (according to Cole, he also planned to overthrow the divine). Things would have gotten worse for the mages if Fiona hadn't rebelled.

If a templar tried overthrowing the divine, they'd have signed their death warrants and made mages the good guys for good.

[dragonflight288]

Again, with Fiona's personal history as a slave during her childhood, I find it hard to believe she would take a random Magister's word of "There's a Templar army right over there! If you bind yourselves to indentured servitude, I will save you from the Templar army that's right over that hill!"

 

Actually, I need to interject into this conversation everyone. 

 

I just did the quest for the refugees in the crossroads by getting them a healer form Redcliff. When I talked to her and did her quest to get herbs because she was running out, she outright said that she ran out of supplies treating people who were injured in a templar attack. 

 

It sounds like the templars actually did attack based on that, and were driven off. 

[Colonelkillabee]

Actually, I need to interject into this conversation everyone. 

 

I just did the quest for the refugees in the crossroads by getting them a healer form Redcliff. When I talked to her and did her quest to get herbs because she was running out, she outright said that she ran out of supplies treating people who were injured in a templar attack. 

 

It sounds like the templars actually did attack based on that, and were driven off. 

That wasn't her mages, that was just some other group. There's mages and templars running around all over that place in little groups. All of them have pretty much gone crazy in the hinterlands.

[Colonelkillabee]

Templars were also attacking non mages like ravenous dogs.

[EmissaryofLies]

Templars were also attacking non mages like ravenous dogs.

 

They were mage lovers; they had it comin'!

[raging_monkey]

They were mage lovers; they had it comin'!

the traitors

[dragonflight288]

That wasn't her mages, that was just some other group. There's mages and templars running around all over that place in little groups. All of them have pretty much gone crazy in the hinterlands.

 

It's true everyone had gone crazy in the hinterlands, but the healer was only treating the people in town, and had to be convinced to go to the Crossroads to help the refugees there. 

 

I took that as the town got attacked and a lot of people got caught in the crossfire. 

 

 

They were mage lovers; they had it comin'!

 

Right. I get you're being sarcastic, but I initially didn't take it that way. 

 

The templars in the Hinterlands were just as bad as the mages, killing refugees willy nilly. Killing that one elven farmer because he was holding a shovel and it "might" be a staff in disguise, or the hunter's view of the war codex that showed a templar, after killing some apostates and refugees, started takng off his armor and was apparently going to rape an injured refugee girl before the Hunter shot him. 

 

And the mages became consumed with the idea of freedom and power and tried to set themselves up as gods among men, taking what they would. 

 

Innocents who are not even invested in either side are getting hurt by both sides. 

[Colonelkillabee]

Ain't nuthin like an apostitute. The things they can do....

 

I luv 'em too!

[Colonelkillabee]

It's true everyone had gone crazy in the hinterlands, but the healer was only treating the people in town, and had to be convinced to go to the Crossroads to help the refugees there. 

 

I took that as the town got attacked and a lot of people got caught in the crossfire. 

It's not relevant to this approaching army thing though. It doesn't take an army to attack a small village of unarmed citizens. A dozen, two dozen maybe.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I was always a pro-Mages player, and sympathetic for the Mages since DAO, but the game made me more sympathetic towards the Templars. Now, I'm pro-Circle who side with the Templars, and as much as I'm supporting reformed Circle with the Mages governing themselvesm, mages have more freedom and responsibility in the reformed circle.

 

I still think we need the Templar Order as an oversight, but they'll no longer stand as jailer. I'm leaning towards the idea of having Templars around as protector of innocent, some sort of police force against evil mages or mages who gone too far and break the law. Not all Templars are power abusive, cruel oppressor, and you'll get a chance to turn this order around back to the way it should be. However I believe Templars who abuse their power should face harsh punishment.

 

This is the way I see it. I haven't gotten to the point in the game where I'm given the choice. I seriously doubt the game will give me this choice because it makes too much sense.

 

Games are typically black or white. I assume I will be given a choice of free mages or circles like the old days. The Herald of Andraste will wander off and find Isabela, change her identity, and live her life as a pirate and let the world burn. Why? Because the hubris of a few men will undo everything eventually with either magic or technology. It's always just a few men, isn't it? The rest of us suffer.

[Colonelkillabee]

What's Isabella got to do with this?

 

Also, why are we bringing up Templars? I know the thread's about them too, but I haven't seen anyone actually sticking up for their actions or saying they weren't as bad as the mages. Worse actually. It's kinda hard when they're always in the negative light this game.

[Dean_the_Young]

Again, with Fiona's personal history as a slave during her childhood, I find it hard to believe she would take a random Magister's word of "There's a Templar army right over there! If you bind yourselves to indentured servitude, I will save you from the Templar army that's right over that hill!"

 

May I borrow this for the future? Please?

[MisterJB]

She wants to restore the Circle and bring mages back under templar control. Like I said earlier, it's Irving all over again. Irving was always trying to work within the system, which brought the mages to the point of being annulled.
 

It doesn't take hundreds of mages or dozens of ships for Alexius and his household to get to Ferelden. People don't know that there are any more Tevinter around than these. It's not apparent that Tevinter is up to anything until Corypheus shows his hand and Dorian reveals that there's a splinter faction that's making a god gambit to take over Thedas. You're expecting Fiona to have metaknowledge she can't possibly have. She didn't play Dragon Age Inquisition.

No, Uldred did that.

 

(sigh) Ok, I'll try again.

First, the simple fact that Alexius was able to force Teagan out and hold Redcliff to the point where the populace can't simply throw the Tevinters out means they had a sizable force.

Second, the fact that Fiona believed Tevinter was going to protect them means either:

a) There was a sizable force there capable of contending with the Templar Order or

b)There were ships capable of transporting hundreds of mages away (these mages being the Southern ones). Such ships require a sizable force to pilot them.

 

If neither of these hold true, then the Tevinters can't protect them to begin with before this imagined Templar army arrives and kills them all and so the whole deal was pointless.