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[Addai]

No, Uldred did that.
 
(sigh) Ok, I'll try again.
First, the simple fact that Alexius was able to force Teagan out and hold Redcliff to the point where the populace can't simply throw the Tevinters out means they had a sizable force.
Second, the fact that Fiona believed Tevinter was going to protect them means either:
a) There was a sizable force there capable of contending with the Templar Order or
b)There were ships capable of transporting hundreds of mages away (these mages being the Southern ones). Such ships require a sizable force to pilot them.
 
If neither of these hold true, then the Tevinters can't protect them to begin with before this imagined Templar army arrives and kills them all and so the whole deal was pointless.

Other than his personal guard, where is this huge Tevinter force? You don't see any Tevinter soldiers standing on street corners in Redcliffe. The Inquisitor doesn't even realize what's going on, other than that there's strange magic afoot, until Fiona tells her. If there were a large invasion force, you think the person who had just pacified the Crossroads would know about it?

Uldred was the catalyst, but the buck stopped with Irving. Mages have no legal standing in the White Chantry, so saying they could have accepted a compromise solution is just going over what the mages had seen repeatedly fail.

[Steelcan]

Mages do have legal standing, they aren't slaves.  If a templar went on a rampage and killed a bunch of mages that weren't possessed or blood mages, he'd theoretically be held responsible for that

[MisterJB]

Other than his personal guard, where is this huge Tevinter force? You don't see any Tevinter soldiers standing on street corners in Redcliffe. The Inquisitor doesn't even realize what's going on, other than that there's strange magic afoot, until Fiona tells her. If there were a large invasion force, you think the person who had just pacified the Crossroads would know about it?

Uldred was the catalyst, but the buck stopped with Irving. Mages have no legal standing in the White Chantry, so saying they could have accepted a compromise solution is just going over what the mages had seen repeatedly fail.

 

Same place the hundreds of mages, including children, are. The void where they're conveniently kept in before the plot has a need for them.

Seriously, just because the game didn't animate something, it doesn't mean that, lorewise, isn't there.

 

The fact that Circle mages have freedoms and rights that must be respected means that they have a legal status. In fact, one could make na argument that, in many ways, they represente an uper class.

 

[raging_monkey]

Mages do have legal standing, they aren't slaves.  If a templar went on a rampage and killed a bunch of mages that weren't possessed or blood mages, he'd theoretically be held responsible for that

theoretically

[Colonelkillabee]

I don't know if that matters much when the templars are the ones that punish templars by order of the chantry, as well as the seekers, and they all seem to be rather reluctant to do so.

 

However, it's no better with the Qun, the Dalish throw them to the wolves, the Tevinter use weaker ones as slaves, servants, sacrifices and puppets... So who's got the higher ground? No one. Not those other three certainly.

 

edit: Not unless you're lucky enough to be an elf in a clan with only a few mages.

[The Baconer]

 

May I borrow this for the future? Please?

 

"Now, sign here aaaannd... What's that? My, uh, scouts have just reported that the Templars ran for their lives! Truly, it could only be by divine providence that I arrived when I did."

[Colonelkillabee]

Fiona was enthralled... by his smile. If Alexius was a real person his occupation would be a used car salesman with a knack for theoretical physics.

I have a theoretical degree in physics. And I'm pretty sure I'm still more qualified to lead the mages than her.

[Dean_the_Young]

"Now, sign here aaaannd... What's that? My, uh, scouts have just reported that the Templars ran for their lives! Truly, it could only be by divine providence that I arrived when I did."

 

"I know, you can send your scouts out to check as well. If they don't find a Templar army that can take Redcliffe, you'll know you can trust me!"

[Sports72Xtrm]

 

Mages do have legal standing, they aren't slaves.  If a templar went on a rampage and killed a bunch of mages that weren't possessed or blood mages, he'd theoretically be held responsible for that

 

 

All it takes is a little dissent for an entire Circle to be painted with the same brush. Just as in Kirkwall, unknown source of dissent gives templars justification to supersede the mages' "rights" in favor in expedience. the seekers and chantry knew about the corruption and turned a blind eye because "corruption must be rooted" no matter the cost apparently to the mages. Mages picked at random and tranquilized hoping one of them knows where the dissent is coming from thus creating even more resentment and dissent from the mages. Of course there could be Circles like Ferelden where loyalists try to snitch on their fellow mages "for the greater good" but even Uldred was a loyalist once, finding blood mages for the templars and Irving. It is so easy to be disillusioned with the Circle system.  

[Dean_the_Young]

Fiona was enthralled... by his smile. If Alexius was a real person his occupation would be a used car salesman with a knack for theoretical physics.

 

It was blood magic!

 

No smile is that handsome without blood involved!

[Addai]

Same place the hundreds of mages, including children, are. The void where they're conveniently kept in before the plot has a need for them.
Seriously, just because the game didn't animate something, it doesn't mean that, lorewise, isn't there.
 
The fact that Circle mages have freedoms and rights that must be respected means that they have a legal status. In fact, one could make na argument that, in many ways, they represente an uper class.

I'm sorry, when no one even mentions this large force, I'm going to have to assume that it actually isn't there.

What freedoms and rights do they have that need to be respected? Seriously, what? They've been at the complete whim of the Chantry for ages.

[Colonelkillabee]

Yea, I don't think anyone can pretend that mages are anything more than second class citizens in all this. That's one thing I don't think anyone here can deny.

[Dean_the_Young]

He brushes twice a day... with the blood and tears of slaves.

 

Or maybe he time traveled 15 ages into the future and got himself a mechanical tooth brush. He is now the envy of the Magisterium.

 

Corypheus may be a tyrant with delusions of godhood, but man is he a stickler for personal hygiene.

 

I once heard he had a slave sacrificed for acne.

[Dean_the_Young]

On your knees! All will bow to the personal hygiene of Tevinter!

You will floss with the scalps of my enemies! You will use their bones as toothpicks! You will brush your teeth, or feel my wrath!

[TobiTobsen]

I'm sorry, when no one even mentions this large force, I'm going to have to assume that it actually isn't there.

 

How exactly did he take control of the most important Arling in Ferelden without a force to back him up then?

Teagan and the Knights sworn to Redcliffe will not simply pack their things and leave Redcliffe Castle and Village in the hands of a Tevinter Magister because he asked them politely.

[Dean_the_Young]

Now that I think about it I can understand how Cory was able to make such a formidable force out of a Tevinter extremist offshoot. The henchmen were persuaded by the dental plan. I pretty sure that bolstered recruitment. 

 

The Inquisition should look into this.

 

If you join the Inquisition, you could have real teeth in your mouth at age thirty!

 

If you join the Venatori, you could have your own teeth in your mouth at thirty!

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I loved this, lol. If Alistair agrees, I agree. "Get the **** out of my Kingdom."

 

Really there was no excuse for what happened with Redcliffe. How many excuses are people going to make for these ****** mages before they finally start holding them liable for their mistakes?

 

I read this differently. It's not that simple. This is a cheap shot to force you into making this choice. Alister,  stuff it. You didn't even bring Elizabeth with you. And the rest of the team suddenly got amnesia about meeting the Grand Enchanter in Val Royeaux and that time rift outside Redcliff. Your Inquisitor doesn't.

 

See, when I first met the grand enchanter in Val Royeaux, this alliance with Tevinter hadn't happened. I had pretty much cleaned up the Hinterlands. That took time. More than a couple of days. I then went to the Coast, then to the Marsh. Then finally into Redcliffe, only to find a rift at the entrance that warped time. Remember Solas commented on this. When I had arrived, the Grand Enchanter never had met me in Orlais, yet, she had.

 

What I can guess happened since we don't know the details is that the Tevinters had arrived with the Venatori under the guise of offering assistance to the mages. Then he manipulated time back to the point of the conclave, and what I guess that isn't told is that they gave the Grand Enchanter an offer she couldn't refuse (Mafia type offer), so she took it, and it wasn't a willing acceptance. No one would willingly sell their order into slavery like that except under duress. The Magister simply would have killed her, replaced her with a successor, and kept doing so until he found someone who would sell their order into slavery.

 

The Fiona I met in Val Royeaux did not do this willingly. Unfortunately, that Fiona no longer exists thanks to a time line manipulation. However, we were successful in reversing it. I gave her a second chance as an ally.

[MisterJB]

I'm sorry, when no one even mentions this large force, I'm going to have to assume that it actually isn't there.

What freedoms and rights do they have that need to be respected? Seriously, what? They've been at the complete whim of the Chantry for ages.

Assume whatever you wish: bottom line, Fiona delivered a piece of Ferelden unto Tevinter (regardless if it is long or short term) after they were given refuge there proving the Templars and Chantry right.

 

 

Well, right off the top of my head there is the freedom of association which translates into the Fraternities.

Then, there is the right to protection under the law which translates into things like "No mage may be made Tranquil or pursued without the permission of the First Enchanter" which are enforced through methods such as making the door to the phylactery room usable only by a mage and Templar working toghether.

 

Honestly, they have more freedoms than I think wise. I would remove the right to live anywhere if given permission by the First Enchanter. Or, at least, ensure no First Enchanter will give that permission without consulting the Knight Commander first.
 

[Colonelkillabee]

This is how the Wiki writes it, though the wiki does make mistakes at times:

 

As the brutality of the Mage-Templar War escalated, many hunted rebel mages and apostates congregated to Fiona's refuge in Redcliffe. Some of these mage refugees were Tevinter infiltrators who encouraged an alliance with the Tevinter Imperium as the situation with the mage rebellion grew dire. Grand Enchanter Fiona conceded to agree to the alliance and Magister Gereon Alexius used time warping magic to officialize it in a timely manner. Alexius however was also a Venatori agent and usurped Redcliffe Castle, alienating the mage rebellion's sole benefactor. With the mage rebellion's survival now dependent on their alliance with the Tevinter Imperium, Alexius changed the terms of the alliance and conscripted the southern mages into indentured servitude. He then orders his forces to displace the people of Redcliffe from their homes.

 

They already had people infiltrating the mage force. It's clear that the Venatori did indeed have forces, enough to overthrow redcliffe.

[Colonelkillabee]

Assume whatever you wish: bottom line, Fiona delivered a piece of Ferelden unto Tevinter (regardless if it is long or short term) after they were given refuge there proving the Templars and Chantry right.

 

 

Well, right off the top of my head there is the freedom of association which translates into the Fraternities.

Then, there is the right to protection under the law which translates into things like "No mage may be made Tranquil or pursued without the permission of the First Enchanter" which are enforced through methods such as making the door to the phylactery room usable only by a mage and Templar working toghether.

 

Honestly, they have more freedoms than I think wise. I would remove the right to live anywhere if given permission by the First Enchanter. Or, at least, ensure no First Enchanter will give that permission without consulting the Knight Commander first.
 

Na I think that goes too far. I'm actually on board with granting mages more freedoms, just so long as the templars are around to crack down on trouble, and circles remain for the troublesome ones to stay for good, and for everyone else to train and be educated, but not necessarily live for good unless chosen to.

 

That would be my ideal situation.