936 réponses à ce sujet

[herkles]

I am curious what the college of enchanters will do to improve their relations with commoners and nobles? as well as when mages become abominations/blood mages?

[Colonelkillabee]

They do. Tevinter took it up to level 11 and the south took it down to level 3. But they were in fact the same thing at conception. And no, ****ing spycams and paranoia is what brewed resentment into full scale war. 

 

They have phylacteries for that ****. If a mage goes apostate hunt his or her ass down and ask questions. If things are looking suspect before then cut their heads off. Templars becoming glorified prison guards turned them into corrupt bastards and allowed the real maleficar to run wild.

That's too much work. The simple answer is to give mages power themselves to guard and rule fellow mages. It has a chance for corruption as well but that's always a risk. You can't just cut someone's head off because they're "suspect". How is that better and less subject to being abused?

 

Conception doesn't matter to me at all, I'm talking present. Dorian makes it clear they're rather different now.

[Steelcan]

 

They have phylacteries for that ****. If a mage goes apostate hunt his or her ass down and ask questions. If things are looking suspect before then cut their heads off. Templars becoming glorified prison guards turned them into corrupt bastards and allowed the real maleficar to run wild.

the problem is that the damage can be catastrophic in the time it takes Templars to respond.  Or if there are too many abominations and demons for only a few templars to handle

[Colonelkillabee]

Also I already stated that if it were up to me, I'd only lock up the troublesome mages. But some mages do need to be under supervision. We've already been over this. No need to repeat the circle.

[Colonelkillabee]

The current system failed. I wonder if Circles from three ages prior had to deal with that type of bullshit? When they were allowed to go out and do research and "serve man" instead of being locked up like Akon, brown-nosers being the exception. 

 

If you make the mages chafe they're going to retaliate. It's human/elven nature. Better to give them a long leash and make examples of rebellious elements. Sun Tzu right there.

Of course it did, but I'm not saying the current one's the only way. Just some form of it.

 

We more or less agree already. You just want the leash without the circles, and I insist that even an outside dog needs to come inside sometimes. And other dogs just don't belong outside.

[Colonelkillabee]

And if the mages don't like that and still push for complete freedom, then when they retaliate, we'll retaliate. Guarantee I'll win every time, as history loves to repeat itself.

[herkles]

I still want to know how a free college of enchanters would improve relations between the mundanes and mages; as well as handling blood mages and abominations.

[Colonelkillabee]

I think Circles should exist for education, research, and higher learning. After the Harrowing or whatever other test they come up with is passed though mages get some level of autonomy. Trouble makers aside.

I think harrowings should be eliminated completely. If the goal is to keep mages from demons, why expose them to demons? The logic seems faulty to me, as I don't believe encountering them really makes them better prepared to deal with them later. Hence Wynne who fell for the demon's wiles in the fade while Morrigan, the apostate, didn't.

 

Circles should exist for these purposes, but what about the people that are too vulnerable and can't protect themselves? Someone has to watch them. Can't just kill people for being weak mages.

[errantknight]

Also I already stated that if it were up to me, I'd only lock up the troublesome mages. But some mages do need to be under supervision. We've already been over this. No need to repeat the circle.

Perhaps if you can pass the harrowing, you have more autonomy, with only random checkins by templars or other mages, but it you can't, some kind of circle with more checks and balances in place.

[Colonelkillabee]

I still want to know how a free college of enchanters would improve relations between the mundanes and mages; as well as handling blood mages and abominations.

I have no idea, I'd rather they just leave me alone if I were a commoner. As for blood mages and abominations, the only option for them is death. So if they want to improve relations, they could help templars hunt Maleficars.

[errantknight]

I think harrowings should be eliminated completely. If the goal is to keep mages from demons, why expose them to demons? The logic seems faulty to me, as I don't believe encountering them really makes them better prepared to deal with them later. Hence Wynne who fell for the demon's wiles in the fade while Morrigan, the apostate, didn't.
 
Circles should exist for these purposes, but what about the people that are too vulnerable and can't protect themselves? Someone has to watch them. Can't just kill people for being weak mages.

Ypu need to know if they can resist them before you send them out into the world or you're just asking for trouble. There aren't enough templars to do it another way

[Colonelkillabee]

Ypu need to know if they can resist them before you send them out into the world or you're just asking for trouble. There aren't enough templars to do it another way

It just seems counter productive to me. They could test skill and willpower another way that didn't involve demons.

[errantknight]

It just seems counter productive to me. They could test skill and willpower another way that didn't involve demons.

I'm not sure how they'd do that. I mean, demons are the scariest exam of all. It's not just about willpower, it's about actually being able to withstand their nonsense.

[Vivienne de Fer]

I still support the Chantry and the Templars. Even more so now.

[Dean_the_Young]

I want to hear your ideas!

 

There are alot, too many to do at once but too inter-connected to effectively do piecemiel. The inevitable response is that people go 'I like the nice ones, and dislike the nasty ones,' even though the nasty is needed for the intended goals to be met.

 

Two basic ones, though, are that fraternities should be played off eachother, and an informant network created, both to help discourage pan-mage unity.

 

Fraternities should exist, but not treated equally. Favor some above others, and give them unique and differing perks while simultaneously pitting them against each other. Loyalists get the privelege of being the primary mage-driven oversight- the self-policing magi. Aequitarians get special mediation/arbitrator roles in passing recommending punishments Harrowings, and such. The wealth-centric fraternity gets to manage the foreign trade. Isolationists get exceptional remote-travel privileges and low-security Circles. Lucrosians (the ones gathering money and influence) get to control foreign trade and and maintenance/supply of the Circles.

 

Being in a Fraternity would be a privilege, and not a right, however. Any Fraternity could expel a mage for any reason... and the Templar oversight could remove suspect or condemned mages out of a fraternity, without magi consent. Such magi would be moved to 'lower' tier fraternities- the less pleasant, and less trusted, fraternities that no one can be denied entrance to, but no one would want to be in either.

 

The 'best' of these would be the Libertarians. Presumably the largest of the lower fraternities, it would be the legitimate place for the generally disaffected. Tolerated, protected, but watched for signs of trouble. The privilege of being a Libertarian would be the right to more frequently change Circles. The organizational purpose for this fraternity would be to help mages unhappy in one Circle move to another Circle's environment in which they could make a new start in different circumstances. The 'second chance' Fraternity, if you will- but Libertarians would be prohibited from holding higher offices or being senior enchanters unless/until they entered a different Fraternity, which Templars might veto.

 

Below that would be a number of different 'fraternities' better described as tiers of suspicion. These could be involuntary, and mages placed here by the verdict of the mage fraternities themselves or by a Templar investigation. A frat for minor criminals (rehabilitation/justice), a frat for former/attempted apostates. The lowest of the low, the Resolutionist fraternity, would be for convicted instigators of rebellion. Resolutionists would be blacklisted, banned from participating in other fraternities, denied most privileges, and likely sent to an actual prison-circle.

 

 

There would also be some new fraternities created, to diversity career opportunities and chances for mages who want to do something different or chances to get outside the Circle (physically or organizationally). A healer fraternity, to do public service and improve public health. A military service branch, in which people who can pass high entry standards (ie, are trusted and nominated by the higher fraternities) are trained and presented for recruitment to the Grey Wardens/Inquisition/Seekers/etc. A Black Circle, where radical (and dangerous) magical research is done.

 

Finally, there would be an exile fraternity- an option for mages, if they wish, to be sent to/dropped off at Tevinter or with the Qunari to live a life with them. Phylacteries would be kept to track their presence- with the understanding that if these mages return to Southern Thedas, their lives are subject to automatic tranquility or execution.

 

Overall, a system of contradictory interests would be arranged to balance interests against eachother. Limited resources for the Circles, so that one fraternity's gains is another one's loss. Self-policing is expected, but cross-policing (reporting on the sins of others) is rewarded.  Incompatible metrics and interests, so that one Fraternity's gains come at another's costs.

 

Basically, encourage people to be invested in fraternities and what they can do for the individual... but increase the tension between fraternities to prevent any movement from dominating all magi.

 

 

 

The other part I mentioned before was the establishment of an internal spy/informant network. Everyone would have spies, and everyone would know them, but transfers between Circles (voluntary and involuntary) would be frequent enough that you could never know who was a spy... and who you could trust with a conspiracy. Snitches would be rewarded (preferential transfers, diminished punishments, perks, etc.), people who didn't turn in a staged provocateur would be punished, and enough informants would be placed inside the Resolutionist and Libertarian fraternities that any cabal of five mages would probably have two spies inside.

 

Break the trust needed to create and sustain conspiracies, particularly among the wicked, and an organized resistance and rebellion becomes impossible.

[Colonelkillabee]

I'm not sure how they'd do that. I mean, demons are the scariest exam of all. It's not just about willpower, it's about actually being able to withstand their nonsense.

 

Well, I think that the majority of mages would never even encounter demons in the first place, but that's just a belief. Not sure how many mages actually ever encounter them, but I always got the sense that they mainly got to untrained mages with untrained minds. Elves in the Dalish for instance never have a harrowing and do just fine for the most part.

[Master Warder Z_]

Well, I think that the majority of mages would never even encounter demons in the first place, but that's just a belief. Not sure how many mages actually ever encounter them, but I always got the sense that they mainly got to untrained mages with untrained minds. Elves in the Dalish for instance never have a harrowing and do just fine for the most part.

I think that's due to numerical scarcity more then anything else.

[Br3admax]

Well, I think that the majority of mages would never even encounter demons in the first place, but that's just a belief. Not sure how many mages actually ever encounter them, but I always got the sense that they mainly got to untrained mages with untrained minds. Elves in the Dalish for instance never have a harrowing and do just fine for the most part.

There are less Dalish mages to grab the demons' attention, and the elves make sure to keep the numbers low for a reason.

[Willowhugger]

The problem with Viv in a nutshell.

From the Dragon Age Wiki:

While the vote passed, it did so by a very slim margin. The other half of the mages who voted against secession were soon forced to fight the rebel mages, and united under First Enchanter Vivienne de Fer of the Montsimmard Circle. They identified themselves as "Loyalist" mages, wishing to reinstate the Circles and end the war.

[Br3admax]

Being loyal to the Chantry isn't a problem, so what's your point?

[Colonelkillabee]

Being loyal to the Chantry isn't a problem, so what's your point?

He still thinks that Vivienne and her gang helped hunt down Fiona's.

 

Even if they did, they made their choice. They chose exile and death.