936 réponses à ce sujet

[KingAgamemnon]

I don't think I've changed my stance, really. Rather, I feel like I understand the conflict better and I'm more well-equipped to make decisions about the conflict. I've always been in pretty much the same camp as Cassandra - mages are people too; they shouldn't be slaves, but they often need to be controlled and they definitely need to be watched; Circles are important not just because they protect the world from mages, but because they teach mages how to protect themselves from themselves; Templars are necessary for stability and protection more often than not, but they most definitely should not be given a blank check. So really, Inquisition just kind of reinforced how I already felt about the whole situation. I'm still trying to get a playthrough where

Spoiler

I side with the mages and make them allies, but get Cassandra to become Divine.

Best of both worlds, in my opinion, and it sets a nice stage for further cooperation down the line.

[Willowhugger]

and why do you say that? 

 

Leliana talks about how elves are actually incorporated as servants in many households and have fine jobs. She just misses it's at the cost of their entire culture and being pretty oddities.

[raging_monkey]

Leliana talks about how elves are actually incorporated as servants in many households and have fine jobs. She just misses it's at the cost of their entire culture and being pretty oddities.

my ancestors would call that slavery(indentured servatude if they were being nice) lol

[Gothfather]

In all my DA:O games but one playthrough i was pro mage. I only once went pro templar to just to see the content. In DA2, again I only once sided with the templars to see the content. In DA:I I will only ONCE side with the mages and when I did i made them conscripts not allies to the inquisition.

 

Here is my reasoning which may not be the same as anyone elses.

 

1.) DA:I is the straw the brok the camels back for me. The templar abuses were and are real but time and time and time again we run into mages that do really evil things. These a NOT isolated cases either. In both DA:O and DA2 the upper leadership of those circles is corrupted with Bloodmagic and abominations. In origins you get a large portion of the upper leadership trying to remove a first enchanter and in DA2 you actually have a first enchanter who is a bloodmage and becomes an abomination. In the hinterlands we see apostates go mad with power talking about being like gods. We run into a mage in the storm coast that is performing ritualized murder in the basement of their house, and in the fallow mire you run into a mage summoning demons. I do see templar crimes but they are smaller in scale and less frequent.

 

2) The templar option to the main story is better written. I'm sorry but time travel was soooooooooooooo jumping the shark. When you are taken out of the story to face palm at the troupe of time travel you know it is written badly.

 

3) Templar order is tricked and corrupted by red lyrium while the mages willingly and with full knowledge join forces with a foreign power. How many times do you talk to a mage in redcliffe and they say i don't like the alliance or trevinter is evil but i am going to stay and support my leaders no matter what? This doesn't happen with the templars at ALL. Regardless of your choice the templars purge their ranks because they know too many members of the order will NOT go along with the direction the order has taken. You know this by picking the templar side or by sending in bull's charger's on the war table mission if you pick mages. The templars kill all the templars who will resist. There is no mage purge which I think is very telling.

 

 

 

Mages have proven they have to be regulated they can not have total freedom. They are living guns and as a Canadian I have no problem regulating guns. Does the current system need reform? Yes. I think it does require reform but it seems that circles are not so uniformly oppressive as were might have thought from past games, we even have a codex entry written by mages under attack that state their conditions were not oppresive until after the rebellion and Viv states that most circles don't even require mages to live in the tower. I imagine once you past your harrowing you are given significant freedoms under the old system in most circles and its the first enchanters that regulated most of the day to day aspects of mage life not the templars.

 

DA:I  appears to not be so slanted pro mage as it was in DA:I and DA:O. I really did a 180 in my position. I doubt I will ever again pick the mages in my DA:I playthroughs.

[ShadowLordXII]

I'm still firmly an Anti-Chantry Moderate.

 

What was disappointed in about this game was that the Mage-Templar conflict is largely "side-stepped" in Act 1. You do get to see the war in the Hinterlands and it's effect on people, but there isn't a moment where the Inquisition firmly chooses to side with mages, templars or chooses to be neutral, bring peace or screw both sides over.

 

Instead, you just side-step the issue by only picking one faction to recruit and the other faction is automatically recruited by the Elder One. Of course, you can deal with that faction as you see fit, but there's no real direct confrontation of the M-T War. No moment where the Inquisition makes a choice about how to tackle/not tackle the conflict.

 

Granted, it's a bit understandable as the Inquisition is more legitimately concerned about the Hole in the Sky. 

[RobRam10]

My stance has always been the same and DA:I has not change it: Mages are the true masters of the world and thus by divine right rule the unwashed mundane masses.

[Willowhugger]

my ancestors would call that slavery(indentured servatude if they were being nice) lol

 

I call it employing an ethnic minority in low-paying jobs in rich people's houses!

Never happened in our world, no sir!

 

*pause*

Wait, does this make them House Elves?

[Willowhugger]

I'm still firmly an Anti-Chantry Moderate.

 

What was disappointed in about this game was that the Mage-Templar conflict is largely "side-stepped" in Act 1. You do get to see the war in the Hinterlands and it's effect on people, but there isn't a moment where the Inquisition firmly chooses to side with mages, templars or chooses to be neutral, bring peace or screw both sides over.

 

Instead, you just side-step the issue by only picking one faction to recruit and the other faction is automatically recruited by the Elder One. Of course, you can deal with that faction as you see fit, but there's no real direct confrontation of the M-T War. No moment where the Inquisition makes a choice about how to tackle/not tackle the conflict.

 

Granted, it's a bit understandable as the Inquisition is more legitimately concerned about the Hole in the Sky. 

 

I remember saying before the game's release it was very likely the war was probably over by the time of the game with the Conclave showing both sides were sick of fighting and the Breach wiping out their ability to fight.

No one believed me.

 

The war is over at the beginning.

I wonder what sort of settlement they would have reached.

[rpgfan321]

With Justinia, I think she might've been Leliana lite. And probably more war. lol.

 

And then an Inquisition.

They probably wouldn't have settled over anything. 

 

If anything, the Conclave would have been a reminder to each side why they were fighting. Placing two factions together in one space as they tried to negotiate terms? Moderates would have lead the talks but eventually extremists and radicals would have taken over the peace talk. 

 

They would have gotten nothing. 

[rpgfan321]

You might be right as well. The end result the same: Form an Inquisition.

At least Justinia wasn't a complete idealist to ignore a back-up plan. To find a loophole that is the Inquisition was probably a wise decision on her part. 

 

Sometimes, force is the only solution to a problem despite the fallout. 

[dragonflight288]

I call it employing an ethnic minority in low-paying jobs in rich people's houses!

Never happened in our world, no sir!

 

*pause*

Wait, does this make them House Elves?

 

Nah, House Elves cannot be given clothing and don't get paid at all. 

[Willowhugger]

They probably wouldn't have settled over anything. 

 

If anything, the Conclave would have been a reminder to each side why they were fighting. Placing two factions together in one space as they tried to negotiate terms? Moderates would have lead the talks but eventually extremists and radicals would have taken over the peace talk. 

 

They would have gotten nothing. 

 

That seems to make the Templars and Mages look kind of stupid.

Why go if you don't want peace?

[rpgfan321]

That seems to make the Templars and Mages look kind of stupid.

Why go if you don't want peace?

My cynical side is saying moderates will never win in situations like these. 

 

Individually, some of the mages and templars probably want peace. But not everyone follows the same train of thought. It's much easier to argue and yell with abstract ideas and let the human side of conflicts slip in the process. 

 

"My idea wins over yours" that kind of thing. From what I've learned about history, it's much easier to negotiate for "peace" if one faction has a hidden weapon/secret that can easily stop the other in their tracks. Of what I understand on Mage/Templar War (which is not much other than they duked it out with innocents caught in crossfires), I am not under the impression that they had weapons or secrets. It was merely a war of attrition. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Justinia didn't really have anything over them. She has no legal authority over them, other than goodwill and goodness of her heart. And also trying to salvage what's left of the Chantry.   

[dragonflight288]

That seems to make the Templars and Mages look kind of stupid.

Why go if you don't want peace?

 

Then you can smuggle lyrium to both sides and make a huge profit if you manage to destroy all sources of red lyrium. 

[dragonflight288]

This makes Cassandra pretty awesome. She took Justinia's half thought plan, and then mixed it with us. We're the leverage they were looking for. "Exactly what we needed, when we needed it."

 

Well, she was looking for the Hero of Ferelden AND the Champion of Kirkwall to become the Inquisitor had the Conclave failed. 

 

Instead she got a sarcastic Tal-Vashoth Mercenary mage with a big stick up his butt when it comes to the Chantry and the very idea of Andraste, meaning he'd like to take that stick and beat anyone who brings up the maker to death with it. 

[Willowhugger]

 

My cynical side is saying moderates will never win in situations like these.

I tend to think peace comes out when people stop finding it profitable or fun. Which is a horrible thing to think about war.

 

But yes, neither the mages nor Templars were winning.

Which to me seems like a good time negotiate and "win" the war for their side.

[raging_monkey]

I call it employing an ethnic minority in low-paying jobs in rich people's houses!
Never happened in our world, no sir!
 
*pause*
Wait, does this make them House Elves?

lol... house elves worst of them all getting all the good food, beds and touchin da massa's big house

[Colonelkillabee]

Well, if there was peace, we'd have no game So by all means:

 

"Bring Tha Ruckus. Bring Tha Muthafuckin Ruckus." -Wutang

[EmissaryofLies]

I just hope the next game isn't so steeped in Pro-Chantry bullshit. 

 

The Qun and Tevinter's handling of magi should be a focus.

[Colonelkillabee]

lol... house elves worst of them all getting all the good food, beds and touchin da massa's big house

Ha don't be jealous cuz we house elves get that nice human wife booty while massa na lookin.

 

Lol I'm "High Yeller" in real life, aka mulatto, so I'd be a house elf if humans went by that same rule. Though if you mix a human and elf, they'd just come out human so I guess I'd be alright.