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Still freezing up on loading screen


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#1401
Deglorath

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Now I'll say first that I'm tapping the bottom of the system requirements, but I am inside them with the exception of the apparently required dual-core.  I'd like to add, (though I maybe didn't follow this game as closely as some others), that I had NEVER seen the requirement for dual-cores before I saw it on the back of the package after I'd bought it online.

Better advertisement of this fact would have been very nice...

I understand that y'all are under crunch, SWTOR, Dragon Age and ME2 all being worked on at pretty much the same time.  But you should have taken into account, that alot of us folks just don't have the extra money to update our computers all the time; and that maybe we just don't want to give in and get one of the blasted consoles.  I personally love games playing on my computer, consoles just don't hold much allure to me; my favorite game to play is still Baldur's Gate 2, which I'll be keeping my Win XP PC around for even after I buy a new one.

Console is the dominant market, I understand that, (depressing as it may be), and PC testing requires a great pile more work then console testing.  But you know, if you asked I'm sure you'd find just about every last one of us out here would be more then willing to test anything you need; and probably we'd only want something shiny we can show off to our gamer friends. :)

I live in Austin, I've been past your offices here any number of times driving around, I even know one of the folks who works for y'all.  I bet you'd find any number of Austin or whereever gamers would be willing to help you test out whatever you need.

And you know, I may be missing something, I don't know all the facts, I don't know if you have a MUCH bigger pool of testers then I imagine...  But I'm just putting this out there, we, the gamers, particularly the PC gamers, we want to see more games from y'all, and I think we'd be happy to help you out, however even we-of-the-limited-skills can.

Y'all are my favorites when it comes to computer games, no one else can touch you, and I hate to see people getting so upset, but you know, when you put in such a big limiting factor on a game people have been waiting a long time for, they're going to get rather peevish.

I'll wrap it up here, since I'm pretty much beating a dead horse I think... The Community looks like it's pulling together some temporary fixes as it stands, we want to play, we love to play, long live PC gaming!

Deg

#1402
mr_luga

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Michael Gamble wrote...

Sylenced wrote...

They don't work in weekends,perhaps?
Michael will most likely answer tomorrow about more details of the patch,in the meanwhile,stop reposting/cloning/spamming and just read back,everything is explained.
Cheers.



of course we work weekends, however there are other important issues that need addressing too.

i really hate to sound like a broken record, but the simple fact is that the min-spec was explicitly listed as dual core. there's a lot of double talk going on on this forum. but i just want to see, from what you have all posted, and what we have seen, this IS a single core issue. the folks that have two RECOGNIZED cores and are still having an issue must be crashing from another (notnearly as widespread) issue.

 believe it or not, (by far) the vast majority of people who have purchased the game do have dual core, and are not hitting any issues.

having said that, - again - we are looking at seeing what we can do for a proper fix (and again, NO promises). we have patch 1 coming out in the next few weeks, but the fix to this will have to go into patch TWO (if at all).

don't worry, we are reading this thread and we are aware of the issues. whether or not we can come up with a patchable solution to the issues remains to be seen.

once i can give a conclusive answer, i will.


I dont have a freezing issue, though a "Mass effect 2 stopped working" message that stops me from launching (Even though I've been able to before) Anyway.. First patch comes out in WEEKS? O.o I cant play the game I paid for.. I got above recommended settings, it takes weeks before patch 1 comes out ? :-/ 

.. You should learn something from Valve I think, they get things out like.. Day 1 if their stuff dont work.

#1403
LuminousLupine

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BladeRyo wrote...

...

THAT CANT REQUIRE A DUAL CORE, this is some minor/major screwup that should be easy to fix.


--=> ReadME.txt <=--

Sit down grab a drink, and read the following carefuly. It will make your life easier, and give you some insight into how the computer works. As much as I want to hunt the Dev crew down and inflict some unspeakable torment on them for causing me so much stress, I should point a few things out in their defense!

First, there're nothing all that  easy about programming for a multi-core processer. The very basics you need to know first.

--=> The basic of multi tasking <=--

I'm going to talk about two forms of processing. The first is multi tasking, and anyone that was around for DOS screamed 'Hallulla' when it came around! When processing started out a computer could run one and only one program at a time. For my explination that means your where running windows -OR- Mass Effect. Running one excluded running the other. Never both. If you wanted to switch, you had to shut one down, and continue with the other.

Multi tasking allows a CPU to run one program "for a few cycles", pause, then run the other program "for a few cycles". So it appears to be running both at the same time, but no such thing is happening. Each and every program is run in turn, in it's turn, according to the OS's direction. In reality, no two programs are running at the same time!!

In the last few years multi-core processers have come along. One might think something logical and assume all processing cores are in use at the same time working in symphony to run a single program. This is incorrect! The resouces required to run a program can not be shared. A single program must be run on a single core, there is no way around this! There are two advanrages to having a multi-core processer. The first, is that a OS can delgate some tasks to seprate processing cores; However, each task is still confined to running on the core it's running on and only that core. Even then, that can only be done if the OS is properly designed.

Which is the second way to delegate, Multi-threading. Without multi-threading, a mutli-core CPU is essiantly a brick that costs more money! Without multi-threading NO program on can use more then one CPU core, and multi-core CPUs become useless!

--=> Multi-Threading <=--

Remeber how I said each program can run on one and only one CPU core, with no way around that? This is still true. However, some programs, very few in fact, can however work around this. A program can request(not demand, require, or be guaranteed to recieve) what's called a "thread". A thread is a smaller linked program that is delegated tasks from a main program. Each being a descrete program in it's own right, each can be assigned it's own processer. It would be as if a general that was order to defend his country ordered his lieutenants to carry out the logistics and smaller parts. The general manages the war, and his lieutenants handle the side tasks. This is multi-threading.

However, just because a program is multi-threaded, does not mean that it is threaded among more then one CPU. A program merely requests a additional register entry. Which means the CPU, the chip inside your case, merely has one more thing on it's "to-do list". How it accomplish it is well well well beyond the perview of a mere program or programmer. The hard-ware is not obligated to grant access to additional resources. It can, at it's discresion, simply "multi-task" the program. Much in the same way running your internet browser and a text program would at the same time on a single core processer would. (Which incedently is why I think the "requirement" for a dual core is total BS). At most, the speed requirement for a single core is increased.

--=> A Few Problems With Multi-Thread For The Unlearned <=--

Ok, so you have a program that's multi-thread. Exelent! Good work! You may number your self among the few programmers that can handle some of the more complicated idoems among programming. (Which sadly, isn't that many people, as some of the more common programming languages stopped growing and are being dumbed down for the masses. I'm looking at you, C#)

So, with the (self) praise out of the way, Multi-Thread is not yet the promised land. There are a few issues. Good work, small issue though. Remeber how no one program can run across more then one CPU, and each program is it's own indiviual program? There are a more then a few problems that can crop up if you get too carried away to pay extra attention to the code!

Problem 1:Say you have a program, and you assign the audio and video seprate threads. So, you now have three programs running, spread among the CPUs: The core game, the video, and audio. What happens if the core game wants to finish the level and start the AI up for the next level shooting the player, but the thread for video is still "stuck in a loading screen"?

Problem 2:What happens when you need to count up the EXP you just got for killing the big boss (+1,000,000)and looking good while doing (+100,000)  is split between two threads? Lets say the current EXP is 300,000. Each one requests the current EXP and sets it to the new value. What if ,each one being it's own program, can request then add the relavent EXP at the same time. The problem is in the "request" and then "add". What happens if both threads read the current EXP as 300,000 before the other finishes? You end up with 400,000 or 1,300,000. Not 1,400,000.

Problem 3:What happens if one thread runs into a catastrophic error? The OS is going to shut that thread down; However, being it's own program in it's own unique space, the program that spawned the thread, if it's not the one that crashed, has not direct means of knowing this. It's either going to keep running and the "game" as it were is effectively only half present. If it delegated a task to that thread so another CPU core could be working on that, while it work on something else? Without a means to correct or even detect the problem, the programs is also at best is only half present anymore. At worst both cases can be damaging.

(Incendently, I think this is what Mass Effect is doing, and got sloppy doing it. One thread has crashed when running into a unexpected codec error, and the others are asleep having finshed their work and waiting for the crashed thread to finish (unlock what's called a semaphore).I do not think this a hard-ware issue. I think Bio-Ware got sloppy, the program hasn't errored out as it should because this maybe this is their first run with multi-threading. I'm thinking the game stalls at the loading screen without crashing because the OS still detects a viable thread, doesn't know the other threads shouldn't have done what they did, and the main loop doesn't know any better.)

--=> Summary <=--

There are few more problems with multi-threads that you have to be extra careful for above and beyond the care that must be showed to normal programing, but I hope that helps give some empathy and understanding.

Heres hoping for a patch soon.

Modifié par LuminousLupine, 01 février 2010 - 05:36 .


#1404
jrbabineau

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@mr_luga: valve is not perfect either... I bought a game (Jagged Alliance) from them over 1 year ago... it's broken for everybody. still no patch available and none forcoming.

worst thing, last i checked they were still selling the game.

#1405
Viakar

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The entire problem is simple: For some reason all game companies made a dramatic switch without telling people about it. The requirement for dual cores is illogical and ridiculous, and should have been more apparent. Though most didn't read the requirements, this game would have easily work on single cores. I would like to know why the huge switch?

#1406
Glorfindel2

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schizo-v wrote...

For everyone that has tried the "no loading movie" fix (or even those who haven't), feel free to try this small replacement mod which turns the loading movies into single jpg frames. Same idea as removing the loading movies, but with a bit more flavour. Each is just a frame taken from its corresponding animation.

ME2 was freezing up because it was having trouble playing the HD video while loading the game resources. This eases the load, essentially. Hope it helps!

dl.dropbox.com/u/398143/Files/ME2-SimpleLoadingScreens.zip  (2,047 KB)


Thanks for posting this!  I replaced all of the loading screens with your files, and the game runs perfectly with all of the movies turned on.  I've even be able to get to the Citadel (finally).  I appreciate the effort you put into this.

#1407
LuminousLupine

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(Aside from still thinking the "requirement" is a misnomer? It's not like anything I said isn't freely available material to anyone willing to learn.)



Multi-threading is a neat way to delegate larger loads into smaller chunks. Why multi-core? If a program is multi-threaded, it's a quick way to multiply processing power.

#1408
Sylenced

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You guys are seriously deviating from the main subject of this thread.

Michael answered,you'll have a patch,I'd be glad if I were you that he didn't lock the topic.

Anyways,thanks for the heads-up.

#1409
AliasMask

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Here are the things I had to do to get the game to work (mostly) for me, out of the box:



Find and apply a 3rd party fix where it copies 1k files over the load screens.

Use the -nomoviestartup in the shortcut.

Sit through 20 agonizing minutes of skipping video to create my character.

Create my own save character folder so I can load my characters after I save them.



The game is great otherwise, well except for the occasional time I need to save and reload to get rid of game skip (1 sec play, 5 sec pause). No love for PC users. I had issues the first game, but with a fresh reinstall of my system, that problem went away.. oh except for the skipping scenes on an occasional video reply. But ME2 takes the cake on bugs at launch. Good thing it's a great product or I wouldn't buy the 3rd one when it comes out. As is, I may wait a month before it comes out... ah, who am I kidding... no I won't.

#1410
Alex05663

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Hi I have the same problem. Schizo- v I copied this mod you gave and it did help with the loading but the movies are still freezing afwully. Any ideas what to do?? I still hope that Bioware will give us a patch!

My specs:

Windows XP AMD athlon 64 3800 2.4Ghz

Geforce 9600 GT 512 MB


#1411
Sylenced

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If you use the -nomoviestartup you don't sit through 20 agonizing minutes at the start because it skips the intro -_-

Also no need to use the blank screens until you get to the Citadel and the IFF part,even then,low rate of success.

#1412
Quidom

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Thanks for the tips Qwinn and misterbill but still a no go. I even tried redoing the "no movies" line again and nothing. I found there was a new driver for my nVidia card out a couple weeks ago and I was sure that was it. But no. Perplexing as all get out. I guess according to Bioware, I MAY be able to play this Spring!



And as to that whole bit of drama...

I appreciate the fact that Bioware even wants to do anything for us lowly single core types. I got my game as a gift so there wasn't any searching for minimum specs. I figured if I could play the first one... Lesson learned I guess. But if this is simply about playing the frigging cinematics and not the actual game play, then I say, "WTF?" Change the code so it uses a different player, or doesn't load game data at the same time it is playing a cut scene. I'll wait a little extra for a new area to load if it means I get to play the game at least. So while we were duly noted in the micro-print on the bottom of the box that single cores wouldn't cut it, I will be quite disappointed if Bioware can't get this to work for us. But, like Mike said, we'll find out in patch number TWO. Hey, at least they were able to get the Bioware and EA splash screens to play with no problem! Just make the other movies like those!!

#1413
Hammer_Of_God

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@LuminousLupine:

Thanks for that explanation. I'm not the most computer literate of people out there, and for someone of my limited understanding of said subject matter it was simple enough to grasp whilst an enlightening read :)

#1414
Redshaw88

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Any homebrew fixes yet to help us get through the IFF without being forced to suffer lag effects?

#1415
lolmanftw

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Redshaw88 wrote...

Any homebrew fixes yet to help us get through the IFF without being forced to suffer lag effects?


nope its quite impossible. Its a sequence of cinematics mixed with long ingame cinematics without some loading. I dont recommend it.

#1416
Shammybaby

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If you are having this issue, but have two or more cores, this may be the issue:



If you can't see 'ACPI' under your Driver Management, and your driver is currently 'standardPC', your copy of windows did not pick up the fact you have a duo/quad core processor, and you are currently only running ONE out of your 2/4 processors. I just realized why ME2 wasn't working for me (AFTER I exchanged corrupt DVD's TWICE at a store that nearly CRUCIFIED ME for putting them through that).





For anyone with duo/quad cores that is having the crashing at loading screens, lack of sound/buggyness/studderness during cut scene's, it's because you need to reinstall your Operating System and make sure you manually choose ACPI driver options during the installer, that's the only way to make sure your OS, and games, can utilize all 2 or 4 of your cores.



IF you are on a single core and cannot play the game: Too bad, it specifically said on the box the minimum requirement was duocore- why complain that your Mustang isn't supercharged when you didn't purchase the option? in other words: Why complain about the game not working when it clearly states you can't run it anyways?

#1417
BladeRyo

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@LuminousLupine

Thanks for the long explanation on dual-core workings. But really, do we care? I can play ME1 that goes way slower than ME2, i played and finished DAO, that also says it needs dual-core, and i had around 30FPS.
This stutter issue after movies on single core is a blunder, plain and simple. The game simply flys on older singe core PCs, that alone is saying that it doesn't need a dual core to run, hell i finished the game and worse stutter part was the start/and IFF mission, since i cant save and reload and the game is interrupted every few sec with damn Bink movies.
If, like someone said, one core loads game while other plays the movie, that has got to be the worse implemented solution.
They made the game, so they know how it works, if this was the issue, how hard was it to add to the engine, if no dual core CPU found, then play movie, when done load the level.
No one can convince me that this cant be fixed, because all stutter goes away after quick save/quick load, if i can run the damned game engine and brilliant graphics, fights and everything in high FPS but cant play the game after a movie was played.

@Shammybaby

Great idea compairing this game with a car. How about your Mustang working on only 1 cilinder after playing a song on your car stereo. Then shutdown the car and start again and here is v8 working fully again. That seems normal to you? The game works great otherwise (i should know, i finished it on a SINGLE core), and engine and graphics definetly need more CPU power then a damned movie in Bink.

Modifié par BladeRyo, 01 février 2010 - 10:03 .


#1418
Paul Emil

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BladeRyo wrote...

@LuminousLupine

Thanks for the long explanation on dual-core workings. But really, do we care? I can play ME1 that goes way slower than ME2, i played and finished DAO, that also says it needs dual-core, and i had around 30FPS.
This stutter issue after movies on single core is a blunder, plain and simple. The game simply flys on older singe core PCs, that alone is saying that it doesn't need a dual core to run, hell i finished the game and worse stutter part was the start/and IFF mission, since i cant save and reload and the game is interrupted every few sec with damn Bink movies.
If, like someone said, one core loads game while other plays the movie, that has got to be the worse implemented solution.
They made the game, so they know how it works, if this was the issue, how hard was it to add to the engine, if no dual core CPU found, then play movie, when done load the level.
No one can convince me that this cant be fixed, because all stutter goes away after quick save/quick load, if i can run the damned game engine and brilliant graphics, fights and everything in high FPS but cant play the game after a movie was played.


Very true: Everything but the bink movies work great for me.

Modifié par Paul Emil, 01 février 2010 - 10:32 .


#1419
v0rt3x22

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Quick question - have the crashes been happening on all types of loading screens?



Because for me - they just happen when the rotating Mass Relay loading screen appears.



All other loading screens are fine for me.

#1420
nzthordm

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Here is my 2 cents...



I run a single core P4 3Ghz HT processor, with AGP x8 X1950 512Mb ATI graphics, 2Gb RAM and Win XP Pro SP3.



This game rocks! I get all loading screens, BINK files play properly (with one catch the audio seems to go out of synch by upto 1 sec on larger/longer movies) but otherwise no skipping/stuttering on video, cutscenes play fine, gaming is fine other than the odd stuttering when i move the camera faster than my computer can handle. Im not sure what my FPS is but it must be close to 30 FPS as moving/fighting e.t.c in game is smooth. Some people have mentioned a possible problem being a codec clash, which is interesting as I have the Full Klite Codec pack installed as well as codec thru Zoom Player Max installed and everything runs fine on my system.



So far I have Talked with the Illusive man and got am running the first mission to check out the latest missing colonists, and other than mechs being in places where i can't reach/kill them and causeing me to reload I haven't had any problems running this on a single core (admittedly with HT so there is 2x VPU). I read this thread and thought I spent all that money on ME2 and couldn't play it, but its running alot more stable than ME1 did. ME1 was so bad on my computer I could never complete it (althou I read in other forums that maybe the problem was caused by Bringing Down The Skys DLC), but ME1 kept on BSOD (possibly didn't like my CMEDIA onboard sound whereas ME2 works with it nicely) and with my computer rebooting there were certain missions I couldn't complete to get the story finished and so couldn't complete it. When I get a new computer in March/April (hopefuly a Core i7 920 depending on price here in New Zealand) I plan to revisit ME1 and then do ME2 with the character that completes ME1.



Anyway my 2 cents for this discussion/problem.

#1421
lolmanftw

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Good God.. could you people stop telling us your problems or fixes that have already been said in 50 pages? Stop spaming or I'll just report this thread to be locked.

#1422
ERASER_M

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@Michael
(first: i'm german so sorry for my english :P)

i've also a single core (Athlon64 3700+, 2 GB RAM, GeForce 7600GT).

all movie's were gone if i run the game with the parameter -nomoviestartup BUT the game runs very well. I can play it without any freezes with 1280x1024 resolution!

With all Bik's (except load_f01.bik) the game stuttering every 1 second für 5 seconds - this starts in the fist sequence after the Movie "Electronic Arts Presents"... when Miranda talks to the "unkown man" .

If i activate the load_f01.bik the game freezes at this video and i have to kill the process in my task-manager

So if i said: This game run with Single Core!!! there's something with the bik and handle with single-core's

Hope theres a solution very soon, i will play this awsome game :D

#1423
cesil123

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Well.... look like bioware dig a hole and many blind player (include me) jumped in.




#1424
Sylenced

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Only some loading screens and only some .bik videos suffer from either black screens or stuttering after rendering it.
You can get to the IFF part with only a few loading screens,no stuttering nor black screen after it,but soon after a video loads combined with in-game dialogue sequences and you basically start getting annoyed and regret you tried it in the first place.
I waited 2 years,I can wait a few days/weeks more.
Suggest you do the same,just wait,even if it makes you more curious by each passing minute=)

Modifié par Sylenced, 01 février 2010 - 01:40 .


#1425
Demonite Dreams

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schizo-v wrote...

For everyone that has tried the "no loading movie" fix (or even those who haven't), feel free to try this small replacement mod which turns the loading movies into single jpg frames. Same idea as removing the loading movies, but with a bit more flavour. Each is just a frame taken from its corresponding animation.

ME2 was freezing up because it was having trouble playing the HD video while loading the game resources. This eases the load, essentially. Hope it helps!

dl.dropbox.com/u/398143/Files/ME2-SimpleLoadingScreens.zip  (2,047 KB)


This works like a charm, so far. I can finally play ME2! The game runs beautifully, even with my puny single-core running maxed-out settings. I still don't understand the dual-core requirements for this game. Hell, this game runs at a higher framerate than ME1. And, might I add... I have virtually ZERO loading time now. Never before have I had a game with so little load-time. It takes like 3 seconds to pop between missions.

So. Still curious as to what is actually causing this issue. For me it appears it was just the loading screens. For others, they remove all thier movies and can play. Maybe I will run into a movie down the way that breaks it but so far I am great, and I shall enjoy the game.

Bioware, I've been a loyal customer since NWN but this is just junky. I know you guys are under limits and stuff, but seriously. How did this pass you up? I still fail to understand why "OMFG DUALCORE REQUIRED RTFSR"... (Read the freakin sys. reqs.)

No disrespect intended. Dispite the bumpy (READ: UNPLAYABLE) start, ME2 seems like a good game.