39 réponses à ce sujet

[Yushis99]

Hi, I already finished this game almost twice on nightmare and then i started to play on multiplayer to check how it was. 

 

Started with Keeper and Archer and did very well so far... but then, when trying on threatening and other levels noticed a REALLY stupid damage output for the mobs and did not see a good tank so far for them.

 

Almost every character skill is equal the history game BUT, the armor beneficial passives not so much. Since you can reach on normal game an heavy armor with 320 armor rating with your warrior you can scale very well with the 20% armor passives. I have been playing on multiplayer for a week already and hadnt got a armor better than 100 armor rating on my katari. Being that as it is i noticed lot of people having success just with rangeds and good barrier mages. Since barriers werent nerfed like armor rating... how can our tanks be actually good?

 

i saw someone post an armor of 260 armor rating here on multiplayer section but not sure if its legit... is that actually good armor on multiplayer? Cuz i am getting raped everytime i get a tank, and i dont like it -.-.

 

 

[Bastion6six6]

No, the armors only marginally increase in defense.  It doesn't really matter until you do perilous, and perilous only exists for bragging rights really at the moment.

[Yushis99]

Its quite stupid as it is, what is the point to make my team full with keeper, elementalist and other rangeds and exclude other useless classes...

 

Legionnery I guess its a bit fine, katari can at least GET guard, and Reaver then ? if anything focus him he is dead in 2 shots... come on this is stupid for a warrior.

[Bastion6six6]

Just gotta learn how to play them.  All of the classes have their uses and can be used pretty well, though katari more than any other class has problems surviving it seems.  Regardless, I've seen reavers and katari wipe the floor with enemies on threatening.

[Yushis99]

Just gotta learn how to play them.  All of the classes have their uses and can be used pretty well, though katari more than any other class has problems surviving it seems.  Regardless, I've seen reavers and katari wipe the floor with enemies on threatening.

"threatening" and you say to learn how to play, that is not even perilous, its ok on threatening with some good mages at least. Reaver doesnt get guard with skills normally, katari does and wiping the floor with them reaver requires at least lv 15 and rampage at least. 

 

That is not the point actually, they dont have a so good use as the other classes... even on normal game a knight enchanter was very good... here its actually better than tanks cuz armor differences are minor.

[Bastion6six6]

I just mentioned earlier that perilous is for bragging rights at this point.  The amount of effort and time it takes to complete a perilous run do not outweigh the benefits of the increased gold you get.  Much better use of your time to just run threatening.

[Dragkonias]

I do feel like Warriors at least need a boost when it comes to their resistances. 

 

We'll see what they change when the first balance patch comes out though.

[crusader_bin]

Armors are intended for a cosmetic role (as said by Bioware on one of the topics).

They differ for the sake of variance and to show which one is actually higher tier, but all are supposed to be interchangable.

 

Although I tried 0 armor, level 54 assassin armor (most likely bugged), I think it died a bit faster, but not by much. Might have been placebo effect or smth.

 

 

I just mentioned earlier that perilous is for bragging rights at this point.  The amount of effort and time it takes to complete a perilous run do not outweigh the benefits of the increased gold you get.  Much better use of your time to just run threatening.

 

Not true at ALL. With a decent party you can grind perilous just as fast or a little slower. It grants you 1440 gold per run on average. And I don't even mean all lvl 20 chars. It's best way to level up from 16 to 20 though.

[gravemind_z]

Multiplayer plays a bit differently, you need to rely on party composition and tactics more so than brute force and strength.  I'm sure they'll be more armors in future DLC but nothing close to my Legion of the Dead armor masterworked to 340 in campaign.

[crusader_bin]

Multiplayer plays a bit differently, you need to rely on party composition and tactics more so than brute force and strength.  I'm sure they'll be more armors in future DLC but nothing close to my Legion of the Dead armor masterworked to 340 in campaign.

Legionaire is the only class that depends on armor (a little) basically.

That's the whole story about it really.

 

All the others have basically one rule: don't get hit. And archers 2-3 shoot kill you on perilous.

[Stinja]

I crafted the 97 armour for Katari, and it seems to make a difference for Routine/Threatening vs the starter armour.  I've been practicing a bit with him, so i may just be playing a little less nooby too...

 

Maybe i'll try some solo testing, with different sets, and see.

[Yushis99]

My point is... if you dont tank at all why dont warrior do damage then? I find it ridiculous seeing a mage or an archer starting a fight and the warrior needing to stay hiding... ugh. 

 

Actually i think just to tank a bit would help, dont think warrior were meant for damage cuz they stay very but very behind the other classes in that.

[TheThirdRace]

I just mentioned earlier that perilous is for bragging rights at this point.  The amount of effort and time it takes to complete a perilous run do not outweigh the benefits of the increased gold you get.  Much better use of your time to just run threatening.

 

Bragging? It might have been true in the first week, but many people have done Perilous more than 30 times by now. It would be ridiculous to brag about it if so many people can do it... Oh look, I woke up this morning, I want a medal for my accomplishment!

 

The real kicker for Perilous is the XP, gold isn't worth it. Get 4 level 1 characters, play the first area and even if you wipe you get more XP than an entire Routine run for 1 fifth of the time. Or half a run in Threatening for half the time. After 2 or 3 wipes, you'll already be level 11 or more and will easily get to area 5 as long as you have good equipment and you understand the tactics. With a great party you can just skip the chest that aren't freebies and complete Perilous in the same amount of time as Threatening with about the same gold. The difference is at least twice the XP...

[Kraun]

From what i've "gathered", there's 2 tiers of armor and both tiers with alternative looks (with slightly more armor rating than the base)

1st is the one you start with (or craft) - Base

2nd is the "(obsidian, oak, primal, whatever)" version of that - slightly better armor rating - Base (upgrade with different color)

3rd is the "2nd set of armor look - par necro and some other" - better armor rating - 2nd tier

4th (and final to my knowledge) is the (oak, primal, whatever) version of the above - with slightly better armor rating - 2nd with different look to that of base (upgrade with different colors)

[Stinja]

I crafted the 97 armour for Katari, and it seems to make a difference for Routine/Threatening vs the starter armour.  I've been practicing a bit with him, so i may just be playing a little less nooby too...

 

Maybe i'll try some solo testing, with different sets, and see.

 

edit:  In brief, all magic damage taken was the pretty much the same regardless of a kit's armour at a set difficulty.  A kit's tier 1 vs tier 4 made no difference to damage taken.

Armour does help, somewhat.

 

Full results here:  

http://forum.bioware...per/?p=18097623

[crusader_bin]

My point is... if you dont tank at all why dont warrior do damage then? I find it ridiculous seeing a mage or an archer starting a fight and the warrior needing to stay hiding... ugh. 

 

Actually i think just to tank a bit would help, dont think warrior were meant for damage cuz they stay very but very behind the other classes in that.

Legionaire or Templar can tank very well, from first levels. Reaver does insane damage, untill her healing ability buggs down and stop working (it just... stops... yeah, for the rest of the stage/map) - than you die.

Katari... Well, I have it, but I see no point to it really, unless you want to steal kills from arcane warrior Which, with skill, can solo perilous, hence that would be the most OP class.

Necromancer is a glass cannon, 1-2 archer shoots you down before you realize.

 

In general, warriors have tough luck when you play without a keeper. Reavet would do just fine though, if they would fix her ability. Templar or leggionaire would do just fine. Katari... Well, it can die for all I care Never wanted to play it, It is enough for me to see them constantly crawling and shouting for help...

[Yushis99]

Legionaire or Templar can tank very well, from first levels. Reaver does insane damage, untill her healing ability buggs down and stop working (it just... stops... yeah, for the rest of the stage/map) - than you die.

Katari... Well, I have it, but I see no point to it really, unless you want to steal kills from arcane warrior Which, with skill, can solo perilous, hence that would be the most OP class.

Necromancer is a glass cannon, 1-2 archer shoots you down before you realize.

 

In general, warriors have tough luck when you play without a keeper. Reavet would do just fine though, if they would fix her ability. Templar or leggionaire would do just fine. Katari... Well, it can die for all I care Never wanted to play it, It is enough for me to see them constantly crawling and shouting for help...

 

haha, well since you admited my point i dont need to argue anymore.

 

Thing is if everything was like the main game  (like armors i mean), warriors woudlnt need to act like ****** and didnt need to stay hiding on the skirts of mosts rangeds.

[crusader_bin]

haha, well since you admited my point i dont need to argue anymore.

 

Thing is if everything was like the main game  (like armors i mean), warriors woudlnt need to act like ****** and didnt need to stay hiding on the skirts of mosts rangeds.

 

Actually in MP warriors never do that. They charge* Templar, when I play with it is immortal, Reaver is just bugged... I die with Necro the most, despite doing sick damage with it.

 

*-Katari just dies. Like, obviously, right?

[Yushis99]

Actually in MP warriors never do that. They charge* Templar, when I play with it is immortal, Reaver is just bugged... I die with Necro the most, despite doing sick damage with it.

 

*-Katari just dies. Like, obviously, right?

I have checked templars since i started this topic.. it seems to tank yeah all right, but it can be bursted down as well.. its not as cool as normal history, hope they fix this, multiplayer is awesome. Dont see a damn problem for them to balance a bit, by balance i mean..  just letting things be normal like history does. Who wants passives for 20% armor, 25% more guard.. if that is **** compared to damage resistence. It seems clear that some things were not concerned... as that Reaver's bug you describe as well.

[Chaz Darkbane]

Its quite stupid as it is, what is the point to make my team full with keeper, elementalist and other rangeds and exclude other useless classes...

 

Legionnery I guess its a bit fine, katari can at least GET guard, and Reaver then ? if anything focus him he is dead in 2 shots... come on this is stupid for a warrior.

 

The Reaver is a DPS class. She is not meant to be focused at all. and even then she has the best healing ability in the game with Rampage.

[crusader_bin]

The Reaver is a DPS class. She is not meant to be focused at all. and even then she has the best healing ability in the game with Rampage.

The point is, the healing ability can get bugged and just stop working. Sometimes it works for the whole match all the time, sometimes it doesn't.

[veramis]

It would in some ways be bad if they gave people very high armor ratin because it is a flat reduction to damage. If they gave us something like 150-200 armor rating, all of the mobs in routine would hit for 0 damage, while in perilous they might hit for a few damage to maybe 100 or more. In such a situation, many would rather farm routine and threatening with much easier to kill enemies while taking orders of magnitude less damage for optimal gold xp ratio.

Yaddayadda people will reply that they will play perilous/very perilous for the challenge, but my point is, flat damage reduction is significantly worse design choice than percentage damage reduction. There are many reasons why the vast majority of games avoid flat damage reduction armor rating and use percentage damage reduction instead: because it doesnt result in ridiculous bs like an enemy hitting you for 0 damage and then 40 damage, or one armor with slightly more armor rating making you take 10-30% less damage, or enemies at different difficulty levels or different enemies at the same difficulty level being ridiculously weak or ridiculously powerful.

[Yushis99]

It would in some ways be bad if they gave people very high armor ratin because it is a flat reduction to damage. If they gave us something like 150-200 armor rating, all of the mobs in routine would hit for 0 damage, while in perilous they might hit for a few damage to maybe 100 or more. In such a situation, many would rather farm routine and threatening with much easier to kill enemies while taking orders of magnitude less damage for optimal gold xp ratio.

Yaddayadda people will reply that they will play perilous/very perilous for the challenge, but my point is, flat damage reduction is significantly worse design choice than percentage damage reduction. There are many reasons why the vast majority of games avoid flat damage reduction armor rating and use percentage damage reduction instead: because it doesnt result in ridiculous bs like an enemy hitting you for 0 damage and then 40 damage, or one armor with slightly more armor rating making you take 10-30% less damage, or enemies at different difficulty levels or different enemies at the same difficulty level being ridiculously weak or ridiculously powerful.

Well, no one start with that type of armor anyway, you need to craft your way trhought, the thing is you can equip in any level any armor once you got, if you mean to promote you should at least spare a low level armor to use it when you are yet low, then routine and trhreatening can be cool to play yet. Also i dont mean this all should be easy, i just see a major disparity from warriors to mage and ranged rogue uses on multiplayer.

 

Also, on main history nightmare... i dont think they hit as hard as multiplayer on perilous.. they would still give a good damage, that rating of armor for WARRIORS as you described would actually be ideal.

[Yushis99]

The Reaver is a DPS class. She is not meant to be focused at all. and even then she has the best healing ability in the game with Rampage.

You cant heal what you get bursted for in 2 hits. Reaver against a single target and with care can actually be devastating, but dunno if its worthyness can be that high or at least like the others.

[crusader_bin]

You cant heal what you get bursted for in 2 hits. Reaver against a single target and with care can actually be devastating, but dunno if its worthyness can be that high or at least like the others.

 

The thing is, when not bugged, reaver destroys whole grups of enemies with 3-4 hits, while regaining whole health in 1 to 2 hits. It actually sucks 1 on 1, since it's not worth starting his two primary skills over that.