476 réponses à ce sujet

[daveliam]

Hey Dave...nothing against either of our husbands but...

 

Would you marry me?  Oh, no sex of course.  I just want you for your mind.  

 

_{Seriously, I cannot like your post enough.}

 

[Grieving Natashina]

Frankly, I thought it was a shame my entire DA2 squad wasn't in the Chantry when it got vaporized...  besides Varric.  *fist bumps Varric*

I don't agree with you at all on this.  I liked the DA2 cast.  

 

  I disagree...except for Varric.  Because it's Varric.  And he's awesome.  So you're forgiven, because you like Varric.

 

*fist bump*

[Maverick827]

I think it shouldn't be included at all, even if people aren't going to abuse it.  The cons far outweigh the pros in my opinion.
 
To your second point, it's because it actually removes their sexuality.  It turns an LGBT character into one that isn't necessarily LGBT.  It does the same for straight characters too, but there will almost certainly be other straight companions and major NPCs outside of the LI pool.  For LGBT characters, the romance option is the primary place where they show up.  Taking that away and making them "playersexual" means that primary way to explore those stories is now gone.  Imagine that in DA: I.  Outside of the four LGBT LI's, we would only have Krem, Briala, and Celene (and a few minor completely irrelevant and mostly unnamed NPCs).  That's a huge difference.

I just don't see a difference. I would have no idea that Dorian is gay if it wasn't for his quest. I have zero indication other than these forums that Sera is gay. I just don't see sexuality as imortant enough to impact the player's freedom, and would actually prefer if companions had no sexuality until promlted by the player, which I guess is what "player-sexual" means.

[WildOrchid]

Would you marry me?  Oh, no sex of course.  I just want you for your mind.  

 

Me too.

Damn.

[daveliam]

I just don't see a difference. I would have no idea that Dorian is gay if it wasn't for his quest. I have zero indication other than these forums that Sera is gay. I just don't see sexuality as imortant enough to impact the player's freedom, and would actually prefer if companions had no sexuality until promlted by the player, which I guess is what "player-sexual" means.

 

Usually "playersexual" refers to characters changing their sexuality to meet the gender of the PC.  So, for example, Dorian would be straight (and not bisexual) if the Inquisitor is a female.  He would be gay (and not bisexual) if the Inquisitor is a male.

 

To be fair, though, playersexuality is a thing that only exists on the BSN.  It's never been in the games before.  It's a fan-made concept from when people thought that Merrill and Fenris (and Anders, I guess) changed their sexuality for Hawke.

 

As to why it's a big deal.  To me, it makes a huge difference.  I want to see gay and lesbian characters in games.  I don't want to take a "don't ask, don't tell" approach where they keep it a secret unless you initiate the dialogue first.  And I don't want it to be something that people can just pretend doesn't exist. 

 

 

Me too.

Damn.

 

Well isn't this my luck.  Two marriage proposals and both are from ladies.

 

Nata and WO, the line starts behind my high school prom date.  She was the first gal to try this move! 

[Efvie]

For LGBT characters, the romance option is the primary place where they show up.

 

In DA:I, you mean? This fight’s already lost, they’re not going to do a damn thing about it, but in the future I don’t see any reason at all why they wouldn’t?

[Maverick827]

I'm surprised by your stance on this given your position in the bisexual Cullen thread. It seems there you'd love to have the freedom to romance him.

[daveliam]

I'm surprised by your stance on this given your position in the bisexual Cullen thread. It seems there you'd love to have the freedom to romance him.

 

I would have loved it.  But I'm also totally fine with their decision that it didn't work for his character, which I make clear as well. 

 

If they had written a plot line where he expressed his interest in males and even made a side-comment about how "ten years ago, I wouldn't have been so comfortable with myself to do this....." or something like that, I would have been fine with them explaining that he was bisexual all along.  But they ultimately decided that it wasn't the direction that they wanted to go with his character.  I'm cool with that.  I would have loved him as a m/m option, but I'm used to not getting the guy that I want.  I'd rather lose out on a guy that I want if it means that there will be gay guys whose sexuality can't be erased/ignored.  It's definitely worth it.

 

I'm sure that I'll eventually get a guy like Cullen in a future game. 

[DetcelferVisionary]

I don't agree with you at all on this.  I liked the DA2 cast.  

 

  I disagree...except for Varric.  Because it's Varric.  And he's awesome.  So you're forgiven, because you like Varric.

 

*fist bump*

 

I did try to make a quick edit and add in Aveline. I don't want to have a throw down over DA2 in this thread so I'll just leave it at this. It's already derailed enough.

 

I found DA2 to have one of the worst story arcs, plus character development (if there was hardly any) in any Bioware game to date.  As I've said elsewhere, I don't really play these games for the romances as the focal point of my enjoyment (yes, that is probably an accusation for how I perceive many on these forums (yes, I still enjoy romances when done well))...  but DA2 romances?  The worst.  Just shallow and petty,  generally awkward and I don't feel the now cliche "unrealistic" a wrong adjective to use here.  Characters followed strict ideology and mostly felt like robots versus some of the more subtler characters we've seen in the past. These things are easily overlooked if you're emotionally invested in a character.  Take a step back and look at the bigger picture and all the flaws of DA2 and it's cast slowly start to reveal themselves.  Not saying you or anyone are incapable of critical thinking.  

[pengwin21]

I much prefered the Herosexual explanation for DA2 than the Everyone is Bi explanation. But David Gaider seemed to find the idea of Herosexuality offensive. I'm not sure why.

I can see why it was abandoned, though, given some of the specific companions they wanted to write.

 

Bastila, Carth, Alistair, Morrigan, Cassandra...for a guy who supposedly finds heterosexuality "offensive" he seems to write a fair number of heterosexual romance options.

[Icinix]

I can understand why people would want this, much for the same reason there are numerous other characters that I would like to have as romances throughout the Dragon Age games, but I really like the way it's now being handled.

 

Having restrictions, as a player being able to be rejected, is just grand (in a weird game kind of way). It also means that as players, talking about your story and your gameplay with other characters means their stories can be vastly different to anything I might ever see. It creates unique runs through games, and I think it's a huge win.

 

Yeah - not being able to romance everyone you want does suck, but I think the game is richer for it than not.

[Maverick827]

I would have loved it.  But I'm also totally fine with their decision that it didn't work for his character, which I make clear as well. 
 
If they had written a plot line where he expressed his interest in males and even made a side-comment about how "ten years ago, I wouldn't have been so comfortable with myself to do this....." or something like that, I would have been fine with them explaining that he was bisexual all along.  But they ultimately decided that it wasn't the direction that they wanted to go with his character.  I'm cool with that.  I would have loved him as a m/m option, but I'm used to not getting the guy that I want.  I'd rather lose out on a guy that I want if it means that there will be gay guys whose sexuality can't be erased/ignored.  It's definitely worth it.
 
I'm sure that I'll eventually get a guy like Cullen in a future game.

I just think these games should be as close as possible to letting the player write their own novel, and any restrictions, even those with the best intentions, impede that.

I think it's really unfair that this story's "obvious" love interest, Cassandra (first companion you meet, only one on the war council, closest to the main story, was in the previous game, etc.), is for straight characters only. Liara was the "obvious" LI in Mass Effect, and it would have been unfair if she was straight. If the "obvious" LI in ME4/DA4 was gay, then I would think that would be unfair as well.

That's me projecting my preferred story, though. I like campy TV shows where the main characters half-flirt for five seasons, and in those shows, it's always the obvious love interest. Whenever I partake in the romances in these games (I usually don't), then I go for that type of story, and I would hate to be barred from it.

The thing is that someone else's preferred story might be different, so I think things should be as accommodating as much as possible.

[daveliam]

I just think these games should be as close as possible to letting the player write their own novel, and any restrictions, even those with the best intentions, impede that.

I think it's really unfair that this story's "obvious" love interest, Cassandra (first companion you meet, only one on the war council, closest to the main story, was in the previous game, etc.), is for straight characters only. Liara was the "obvious" LI in Mass Effect, and it would have been unfair if she was straight. If the "obvious" LI in ME4/DA4 was gay, then I would think that would be unfair as well.

That's me projecting my preferred story, though. I like campy TV shows where the main characters half-flirt for five seasons, and in those shows, it's always the obvious love interest. Whenever I partake in the romances in these games (I usually don't), then I go for that type of story, and I would hate to be barred from it.

The thing is that someone else's preferred story might be different, so I think things should be as accommodating as much as possible.

I think that the idea of the main romance being gay or lesbian is just about the least likely thing to happen with romances. Outside of Liara (and I guess you could argue Ander or Isabela), the main love interest is always straight. It sucks for sure. But it doesn't mean that rather have no gay only options because that would meant, realistically, no gay companions. I know it doesn't HAVE to mean that, but it probably would. That's the reality.

[daveliam]

I think that Cullen as bisexual would have been very interesting. Even more interesting if as a Male it's a new discovery because I feel like his character would not be forthcoming with that unless he were attracted to a male inquisitor who is mutually attracted to him. He was a chantry boy for most of his life and devout at that. It would make sense if it were not something you discovered as a female inquisitor because it would not be relevant at that time and that he would not have discussed it with anyone of addressed his feelings either unless it were something he felt safe in doing. But that's just my take on it.

Of course, I would have loved to have a romance with Dorian. Personally, he's my favorite companion from minute one and a must have in all adventures. I adore him to bits. I like to pretend he's bi and that the argument was with his father was because his father didn't accept he liked men as well as women so he tried to scrub it out of him with blood magic so that he could have the perfect son marry into the right bloodline. My little fantasy aside, I am glad that he is such a great character and that he is probably very well received by gay males. I liked cortez in ME3 as well. But Dorian brings a lot more to the game I think regarding issues faced by homosexual males. It's a well done story I thought, my fantasy aside of him being a romance option for me. Feels like art imitating life on that front. XD

Agreed about Cullen. I think that would have been a great story to see.

About Dorian, I think you'd be surprised that I think he's gotten mixed reviews from gay guys. I've seen plenty who love him. But I've also seen plenty who find his looks, mannerisms, and storyline to be stereotypical and cliche. There are several guys here on the boards who are really disappointed with both Bull and Dorian. I can sympathize. It's how I felt with the DA2 guys.

[syllogi]

I think that the idea of the main romance being gay or lesbian is just about the least likely thing to happen with romances. Outside of Liara (and I guess you could argue Ander or Isabela), the main love interest is always straight. It sucks for sure. But it doesn't mean that rather have no gay only options because that would meant, realistically, no gay companions. I know it doesn't HAVE to mean that, but it probably would. That's the reality.

 

...And feeling like this is why I'm getting more and more bitter about the subject (and I was at least semi-bitter to begin with).  

 

I'm glad that Dorian had a interesting storyline, and that fan reaction to him seems mostly positive.  But I'm never going to experience that romance, personally, so it's kind of nice from a distance.  And in the same game, I got to see the leading lady character once again be the express property of straight male characters only, and at the same time the first lesbian character in a Dragon Age game be hated so much that many people brag about never picking her up or kicking her out based on hearsay or one conversation ingame.  I don't feel represented by Josephine, who doesn't seem to even know my character is female.  I never felt this disenfranchised and disappointed by the supposed personality free "playersexual" characters of DA2.  And there's a good chance that we'll never see anything like that again.

 

I mean, I understand where you and others are coming from.  But when I'm being told again and again that my feelings aren't valid because other people want to feel more comfortable about their choice of video game bae, it's draining.  I don't need that kind of experience in my video games.

[daveliam]

...And feeling like this is why I'm getting more and more bitter about the subject (and I was at least semi-bitter to begin with).

I'm glad that Dorian had a interesting storyline, and that fan reaction to him seems mostly positive. But I'm never going to experience that romance, personally, so it's kind of nice from a distance. And in the same game, I got to see the leading lady character once again be the express property of straight male characters only, and at the same time the first lesbian character in a Dragon Age game be hated so much that many people brag about never picking her up or kicking her out based on hearsay or one conversation ingame. I don't feel represented by Josephine, who doesn't seem to even know my character is female. I never felt this disenfranchised and disappointed by the supposed personality free "playersexual" characters of DA2. And there's a good chance that we'll never see anything like that again.

I mean, I understand where you and others are coming from. But when I'm being told again and again that my feelings aren't valid because other people want to feel more comfortable about their choice of video game bae, it's draining. I don't need that kind of experience in my video games.

I hope you don't think that I'm trying to invalidate your opinions. They are totally valid. I just disagree and am offering a counterpoint.

[daveliam]

How could anyone want to "Ride the Bull"....seriously you'd need a Donut pillow for the Inquisitor's throne for at least 2 weeks O.o

I feel like if I answer this in detail, I'd be violating some BSN rule. It's best if you just don't think of the details....... Suffice it to say, there are plenty of gals and guys who can handle whatever the Bull is packing......

[Mr.House]

...And feeling like this is why I'm getting more and more bitter about the subject (and I was at least semi-bitter to begin with).  

 

I'm glad that Dorian had a interesting storyline, and that fan reaction to him seems mostly positive.  But I'm never going to experience that romance, personally, so it's kind of nice from a distance.  And in the same game, I got to see the leading lady character once again be the express property of straight male characters only, and at the same time the first lesbian character in a Dragon Age game be hated so much that many people brag about never picking her up or kicking her out based on hearsay or one conversation ingame.  I don't feel represented by Josephine, who doesn't seem to even know my character is female.  I never felt this disenfranchised and disappointed by the supposed personality free "playersexual" characters of DA2.  And there's a good chance that we'll never see anything like that again.

 

I mean, I understand where you and others are coming from.  But when I'm being told again and again that my feelings aren't valid because other people want to feel more comfortable about their choice of video game bae, it's draining.  I don't need that kind of experience in my video games.

If you like Sera, why should it matter if she has vocal haters?

[Mr.House]

How could anyone want to "Ride the Bull"....seriously you'd need a Donut pillow for the Inquisitor's throne for at least 2 weeks O.o

My quizy was qunari, she was built for The Bull!

[Mushashi7]

Let's put it this way:

If there's no gender restrictions everyone can chose what they like - even those who wants Cassandra to be heterosexual.

And everyone is happy.

The entire defense of the current gender restrictions is oldfashoned and discriminating in every way. It is a game, not reality. A game is supposed to entertain you.

[Mr.House]

Let's put it this way:

If there's no gender restrictions everyone can chose what they like - even those who wants Cassandra to be heterosexual.

And everyone is happy.

The entire defense of the current gender restrictions is oldfashoned and discriminating in every way. It is a game, not reality. A game is supposed to entertain you.

They would have to rewrite Dorians entire personal story. It's not that simple.