476 réponses à ce sujet

[daveliam]

I think the entire game is too serious. DA:O and DA2 had hilarious party banter, cut scenes and dialogue. I guess being able to make me laugh is a requirement for my partners.

 

Really?  I've literally lol'd numerous times at the party banter in this game.

 

No troll. I do not discriminate gays /even in games/ but I do not like them and I have the right to. If you do not like cucumbers does this make you a kind of anti vegetable troll ? If you tell me that I cannot express the fact I do not like gays, then you discriminate me. Of course I never go to some gay couple who kiss, shouting "I do not like you! ", of course I would not do this. But I do not like them and many people do not. This means I do not wish to see them in games but since they are included, I just play the game and do not pay attention. It would be the same with people who do not like the levelling system. They do not enjoy it but they play the game nonetheless. So, for me it is a great RPG. But people who abuse and twist the talks about human rights are stupid.

 

Vegetables and leveling systems aren't humans with thoughts and rights and feelings.  So your analogy is terrible.  The LGBT content in the game is for actual humans who are playing it and want to see representation for their sexuality.  If you don't like it, don't play it.

 

Other people already have addressed the ways you're wrong, but just so you know, you can easily erase all traces of gay from DA:I:

 

Make sure Leliana romanced a male Warden or nobody when importing from Dragon Age Keep.

Ignore the mysterious arrow in Val Royeaux, you'll never even have to see Sera, much less turn her down.

Ignore Krem in Haven, turn down Iron Bull if/when you see him on the Storm Coast.

Do Champions of the Just, turn down Dorian when he wants to join.

Since Josephine is apparently playersexual, and you don't have to flirt with her anyway, you can ignore her.  

 

There you go!  Bioware didn't forget about catering to people who hate gays!

 

Leliana doesn't become straight because she romanced a male Warden in DA: O.

Joesphine isn't 'playersexual'.  She's bisexual.

 

But otherwise, yes, it's easy to eliminate all LGBT references and characters from the game, unfortunately.

[Lord Surinen]

No, I dislike this idea. When I want to romance someone then I want that character to be straight.

[Namea]

In DA2 they're called "Playersexual" because aside from Isabela (who has always been bisexual) no mention is made of them being bisexual if romanced heterosexually. If you romance Anders as a woman he NEVER says anything about being with men. Karl is just a friend not a past lover. Same with the rest. 

 

That's not bisexual representation, that's catering to the player character. The characters weren't bisexual, they were whatever sexuality you chose to romance them as.

[daveliam]

In DA2 they're called "Playersexual" because aside from Isabela (who has always been bisexual) no mention is made of them being bisexual if romanced heterosexually. If you romance Anders as a woman he NEVER says anything about being with men. Karl is just a friend not a past lover. Same with the rest. 

 

That's not bisexual representation, that's catering to the player character. The characters weren't bisexual, they were whatever sexuality you chose to romance them as.

 

Nope.  They have all been confirmed by the writers as being bisexual, except for Sebastian.  It plays into really terrible stereotypes about bisexuals if you insist that the only way a character is bisexual is if they openly discuss their sexual orientation by explicitly stating their interest in both males and females. 

 

There have been 8 bisexual LIs in the games:

 

Leliana discusses her relationship with a woman, but not men.

Zevran discusses both men and women with a preference towards women.

Merrill doesn't discuss her relationships or preferences.

Fenris doesn't discuss his relationships or preferences, but ends up with Isabela if neither are romanced.

Isabela discusses both men and women without really showing much of a preference either way.

Anders discusses interest in women only, unless you are a male in which case he also discusses his relationship with Karl.

Iron Bull discusses women only in the banter (I think), but ends up with Dorian if neither are romanced.

Josephine doesn't discuss her relationships or preferences.

 

This is actually a fairly diverse representation of bisexuality, in my opinion.  I would like to see a bisexual man who shows a preference for men, though.  That one is sticking out as one that's missing.

 

But I'm not bisexual, so it's really an outsider's perspective.

[Alan Drifter13]

Like I said another topic why isn't it possible just to fall in love whatever the gender is ?

I saw stories of straigh people becoming bxisesual because they fell in love or because they wanted to experiment new things.

 

It's in human nature to be able to change/adapt, don't talk about being unrealistic if you deny that fact.

 

Exactly. If you believe the all-bi characters of DA2 were less "realistic"* you have a very closed-minded idea of sexual orientation and how it works. Are we so attached to the idea of straight/gay traits that we consider that sexual orientation NEEDS to be a part of the definition of a character's personality? Well, that's just sad.

 

*In fiction we should be speaking of "believable" characters, not "realistic". Elves, qunari or mages simply can't be "realistic", but they can be "believable" if their personality make sense and their overall behavior has enough internal consistency for us to suspend our disbelief of the story. 

[Panda]

In DA2 they're called "Playersexual" because aside from Isabela (who has always been bisexual) no mention is made of them being bisexual if romanced heterosexually. If you romance Anders as a woman he NEVER says anything about being with men. Karl is just a friend not a past lover. Same with the rest. 

 

That's not bisexual representation, that's catering to the player character. The characters weren't bisexual, they were whatever sexuality you chose to romance them as.

 

Well this is what I tought first and because of Anders too. So I thought his sexuality changed according PC's gender.. like if PC was female he never had relationship with Karl. But Gaider has confirmed that they are all bisexuals so I guess he's the one with final saying and that's how it is in canon ^^

[Namea]

Well this is what I tought first and because of Anders too. So I thought his sexuality changed according PC's gender.. like if PC was female he never had relationship with Karl. But Gaider has confirmed that they are all bisexuals so I guess he's the one with final saying and that's how it is in canon ^^

 

If they are all bisexual according to Gaider that is awesome. It's not realistic in the least but it's awesome. I'm bisexual and aside from Bioware there really isn't much representation for any sexuality but hetero in the gaming community. 

 

Yes I know, you can romance anyone of any gender in skyrim but considering the "characters" are little more than mannequins with repeated voice tracks I don't count that. They don't have sexualities because they aren't actual characters and it's not a romance, it's a "Hey I'm wearing this necklace, wanna get hitched and open a shop for me?" 

[Namea]

Nope.  They have all been confirmed by the writers as being bisexual, except for Sebastian.  It plays into really terrible stereotypes about bisexuals if you insist that the only way a character is bisexual is if they openly discuss their sexual orientation. 

 

There have been 8 bisexual LIs in the games:

 

Leliana discusses her relationship with a woman, but not men.

Zevran discusses both men and women with a preference towards women.

Merrill doesn't discuss her relationships or preferences.

Fenris doesn't discuss his relationships or preferences, but ends up with Isabela if neither are romanced.

Isabela discusses both men and women without really showing much of a preference either way.

Anders discusses interest in women only, unless you are a male in which case he also discusses his relationship with Karl.

Iron Bull discusses women only in the banter (I think), but ends up with Dorian if neither are romanced.

Josephine doesn't discuss her relationships or preferences.

 

This is actually a fairly diverse representation of bisexuality, in my opinion.  I would like to see a bisexual man who shows a preference for men, though.  That one is sticking out as one that's missing.

 

But I'm not bisexual, so it's really an outsider's perspective.

 

I'm bisexual. My sexuality doesn't define me, it's just one tiny part of me. However, if a character ONLY mentions one gender I will assume that is their sexual preference. I don't believe Anders was bisexual in Awakening for example. He mentioned women several times but NEVER men. If you romance him as female in 2 he STILL never mentions men.  To say "he could be even if he doesn't mention it..." is true, but not likely. 

 

My husband has only ever mentioned women...should I assume that he's bisexual even though he's never shown any interest in men? 

 

I like the representation in DA:I (And bull does mention men at least once actually.) and I feel it's right. A good balance of having that representation but with a realistic ratio. I do wish that some romances weren't treated as "Canon" or "more important" like so many are in bioware games. (For example, Alistair or Morrigan in DA:O. The other two just seem...tacked on. Isabela or Anders in DA2 are more important to the story. Cassandra, Cullen, or Solas seem to be the important ones in DA:I. Bastila in KoToR, Aribeth in NWN, Liara in ME, Miranda in ME2, Kaiden/Ash in ME3,)

[Dreamer]

I'm bisexual. My sexuality doesn't define me, it's just one tiny part of me. However, if a character ONLY mentions one gender I will assume that is their sexual preference. I don't believe Anders was bisexual in Awakening for example. He mentioned women several times but NEVER men. If you romance him as female in 2 he STILL never mentions men.  To say "he could be even if he doesn't mention it..." is true, but not likely. 

 

My husband has only ever mentioned women...should I assume that he's bisexual even though he's never shown any interest in men? 

 

I like the representation in DA:I (And bull does mention men at least once actually.) and I feel it's right. A good balance of having that representation but with a realistic ratio. I do wish that some romances weren't treated as "Canon" or "more important" like so many are in bioware games. (For example, Alistair or Morrigan in DA:O. The other two just seem...tacked on. Isabela or Anders in DA2 are more important to the story. Cassandra, Cullen, or Solas seem to be the important ones in DA:I. Bastila in KoToR, Aribeth in NWN, Liara in ME, Miranda in ME2, Kaiden/Ash in ME3,)

 

So that's on you.

[syllogi]

 

Leliana doesn't become straight because she romanced a male Warden in DA: O.

Joesphine isn't 'playersexual'.  She's bisexual.

 

But otherwise, yes, it's easy to eliminate all LGBT references and characters from the game, unfortunately.

 

I am very sad that Leliana has absolutely no flirts, but for the purposes of ERASE THE GAY, she will have no GAY content when romanced by a male Warden or unromanced in the first game.  As far as Josephine, as seen earlier in this thread, I have seen no evidence yet that shows that she ever speaks of being bisexual, so as far I can tell, the f/f romance is a carbon copy of the male romance with pronouns changed, and the only other evidence of attraction on her part is maybe/sort of/kind of liking Blackwall's attention, so although I hate the idea of "playersexual", I don't see any sign of the mechanics of her romance being any different than the DA2 love interests.

 

Basically, I'm being snarky.

[Panda]

If they are all bisexual according to Gaider that is awesome. It's not realistic in the least but it's awesome. I'm bisexual and aside from Bioware there really isn't much representation for any sexuality but hetero in the gaming community. 

 

Yes I know, you can romance anyone of any gender in skyrim but considering the "characters" are little more than mannequins with repeated voice tracks I don't count that. They don't have sexualities because they aren't actual characters and it's not a romance, it's a "Hey I'm wearing this necklace, wanna get hitched and open a shop for me?" 

 

Yes.. here for example he talks about bisexuality of DA2 characters opposed to player sexuality: http://www.ladyinsan...terview-gaymerx

 

"I know some people like it, some people really hated it, some people diluted their characters and that led to...that sort of ran down a road of where people called player-sexuality, which isn't a term I really like. Because it implies the player's perception of their sexuality dictates their sexuality.. dictates the reality of their sexuality. So, that if you're a man romancing Merrill, because she never talks about her sexuality, that lets to pretend that she's straight if you like? But you seeing her as straight does not make her straight. She is bisexual, even if you're not exposed to that"

[phantomrachie]

Id like something different like that but it'll probably never happen for fear of "they're pushing the gay agenda in my face" backlash, will likely continue the tradition of "straight female as main Li" & LGBT romances being optional, especially the lesbian characters who seem to get the worst representation in each game such as Leliana's F/F romance which was ignored & had less content, Traynor who had the lest content of anyone & Sera being reduced to a comedy character for the most part who can be kicked out at anytime while everyone else needs low approval 1st

 

The annoying thing is that Sera is an awesome character. I originally found her to be annoying but then understood her more as I got to know her. The fact that she is the only character that can be kicked out at any time is really frustrating basically it's say 'don't worry, if you don't like her you can kick her out instead of getting to know her'

 

And yet again the lesbian character seems to be the least integrated into the plot.

 

Frankly I think that crying 'gay agenda' if they make one lesbian romance the 'main' romance would be ridiculous but since I know people would do it, I've 2 suggestions:

• Making all romances more connected to the plot
• Making the 'main' romances bisexual so that everyone can romance them.

 

All this talk of Sera, has cemented my decision to romance her during my next playthrough.

[Namea]

Yes.. here for example he talks about bisexuality of DA2 characters opposed to player sexuality: http://www.ladyinsan...terview-gaymerx

 

"I know some people like it, some people really hated it, some people diluted their characters and that led to...that sort of ran down a road of where people called player-sexuality, which isn't a term I really like. Because it implies the player's perception of their sexuality dictates their sexuality.. dictates the reality of their sexuality. So, that if you're a man romancing Merrill, because she never talks about her sexuality, that lets to pretend that she's straight if you like? But you seeing her as straight does not make her straight. She is bisexual, even if you're not exposed to that"

 

That's actually awesome, I hadn't read that. Back when DA2 first came out I had read something from one of the other team members that said the sexuality was "fluid" or "Playthrough dependent" meaning if you chose to romance them they were that way and if not they weren't. I'm guessing that was only said to stop the backlash of people who didn't want bisexuality in their games. 

 

I'm really glad to hear that they weren't actually playersexual. To me that was cool from a playing standpoint but a bummer from the standpoint of someone who loves developed characters. Again, it's really not at all realistic to have the entire group have been bisexual but I like it anyway. I'm glad that Gaider came forward and added his voice because it makes the characters from DA2 that much more meaningful. 

[Spectre Impersonator]

I really dont want to play male character...but I want to try wooing Cassandra.  I already tried same-sex with Josephine (which is sweet but a little boring) and I can barely understand Sera so Cassandra is the only other female option.

Yeah, well I wanna bang Sera and I only have the bugged romance with Cassandra and Josephine's sexless courtship so it affects all of us. Except the asexual. Disappointing that there are gender restrictions but unsurprising.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Frankly I think that crying 'gay agenda' if they make one lesbian romance the 'main' romance would be ridiculous but since I know people would do it, I've 2 suggestions:

• Making all romances more connected to the plot
• Making the 'main' romances bisexual so that everyone can romance them.

A main female Li that happened to be bisexual would be more likely, although id prefer them not to be like Isabela again, that stereotype gets old after seeing it so much

[daveliam]

I'm bisexual. My sexuality doesn't define me, it's just one tiny part of me. However, if a character ONLY mentions one gender I will assume that is their sexual preference. I don't believe Anders was bisexual in Awakening for example. He mentioned women several times but NEVER men. If you romance him as female in 2 he STILL never mentions men.  To say "he could be even if he doesn't mention it..." is true, but not likely. 

 

It's a double edge sword.  You claim that your sexuality 'doesn't define' you and is 'just one tiny part' of you, but then you also claim that they need to outwardly express interest in both genders to count.  I think that it's perfectly fine for a character to be bisexual but for it to not be so clear.  People claim to want realism.  Well that's realistic.  Some bisexual people wear it on their sleeves; some don't.

 

My husband has only ever mentioned women...should I assume that he's bisexual even though he's never shown any interest in men? 

 

So, according to your own definition, someone who met you and your husband out could "not consider you to be bisexual" because, unless you explicitly say, "Here's my husband, but I also like the ladies.....", you would be just like Anders.

 

Also, yes, if someone shows interest in only the opposite gender, then you cannot without a doubt that they are straight.  You can say that they aren't gay.  But they could be either bisexual or straight.  If your husband decides to confide in you later in life that he's bisexual, that wouldn't be a retcon.  (That's a silly example, but you get my point).

 

Look, we're on the same side on this issue.  I like bisexual representation.  But I also think it's not fair to say that a character doesn't count because they don't wear it on their sleeve.

[Namea]

It's a double edge sword.  You claim that your sexuality 'doesn't define' you and is 'just one tiny part' of you, but then you also claim that they need to outwardly express interest in both genders to count.  I think that it's perfectly fine for a character to be bisexual but for it to not be so clear.  People claim to want realism.  Well that's realistic.  Some bisexual people wear it on their sleeves; some don't.

 

 

So, according to your own definition, someone who met you and your husband out could "not consider you to be bisexual" because, unless you explicitly say, "Here's my husband, but I also like the ladies.....", you would be just like Anders.

 

Also, yes, if someone shows interest in only the opposite gender, then you cannot without a doubt that they are straight.  You can say that they aren't gay.  But they could be either bisexual or straight.  If your husband decides to confide in you later in life that he's bisexual, that wouldn't be a retcon.  (That's a silly example, but you get my point).

 

Look, we're on the same side on this issue.  I like bisexual representation.  But I also think it's not fair to say that a character doesn't count because they don't wear it on their sleeve.

 

It is very true that they don't have to wear it on their sleeve and yes, if someone just saw me out with my husband they'd assume I'm straight.

However by at least act 2 of DA2 you've known these characters for YEARS. Anyone who has known me on any personal level knows my preferences because even if I'm just casually mentioning past relationships I say "People" instead of just "guys" or whatever. A friend would DEFINITELY know because when I'm talking about someone I find attractive or anything regarding my past there's a likelihood that a lady is gonna be mentioned. 

 

I agree now after hearing Gaider's stance that they were bisexual (because you can't disagree with the creator on his creations, that'd be silly.) My assumption was made based on what I saw in the game and what I know about my own experiences. I've never had a friend who was bisexual and knew they were who didn't at least mention it at some point after years of friendship. 

 

It also shows in casual conversation. If someone says "I look for this in a woman..." or "I just want to settle down with a nice girl..." instead of "I look for this in a partner" or "I just want to settle down with someone nice." I will assume they have a preference for women. Usually unless someone is going out of their way to hide their sexuality (and perhaps Anders was in Awakening. You didn't know him nearly as long as you knew your DA:O companions so maybe it just wasn't something he wanted to talk about.)  you'll know if you're friends. 

 

Also it's a pretty common factor in a lot of the lgbt circles I've been around that if a "bisexual" girl talks only about guys she's probably just a barsexual or fad girl. It's an unfortunate fact that around where I am it's a fad to call yourself bi because you kiss a girl when you're drunk to get attention from guys. 

 

That's a whole other conversation though and those types of girls are by FAR the minority everywhere else I've lived. They just seem really common here. 

 

We are on the same side and you are totally right. I hadn't considered it that way. It's not necessarily completely realistic but it is absolutely possible and it's obviously the case in this game series. 

[juliet_capulet]

If there were no gender restrictions, I'd go for Dorian. Rawr! ...and shave his moustache while he's sleeping.

[phantomrachie]

A main female Li that happened to be bisexual would be more likely, although id prefer them not to be like Isabela again, that stereotype gets old after seeing it so much

 

I think I said it earlier in this thread, but I'd like to see someone who is open about their sexuality and who is romantic. With the exception of Josephine f/f romances in DA have had little actual romance.

 

Frankly Cass would've been perfect for what I'd like to see in a 'main' f/f romance.

 

Oh well maybe in DA4

[syllogi]

It's a double edge sword.  You claim that your sexuality 'doesn't define' you and is 'just one tiny part' of you, but then you also claim that they need to outwardly express interest in both genders to count.  I think that it's perfectly fine for a character to be bisexual but for it to not be so clear.  People claim to want realism.  Well that's realistic.  Some bisexual people wear it on their sleeves; some don't.

 

 

Look, we're on the same side on this issue.  I like bisexual representation.  But I also think it's not fair to say that a character doesn't count because they don't wear it on their sleeve.

 

When we're told that sexual orientations have been more defined in this game, and then Sera and Josephine have NOTHING to say about being in a same sex relationship, with their LI, I don't see that as not "wearing it on their sleeves"...I see it more like the writers didn't know how or weren't comfortable with actually writing about female same sex relationships.  Which begs the question, who are they writing them for, if not people who want to see themselves reflected in these characters?

[Namea]

When we're told that sexual orientations have been more defined in this game, and then Sera and Josephine have NOTHING to say about being in a same sex relationship, with their LI, I don't see that as not "wearing it on their sleeves"...I see it more like the writers didn't know how or weren't comfortable with actually writing about female same sex relationships.  Which begs the question, who are they writing them for, if not people who want to see themselves reflected in these characters?

 

Fanboys who want to see lesbians?

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Fanboys who want to see lesbians?

I guess its not as bad as the ME series, "hot lesbian shower" scene anyone?

[Namea]

I guess its not as bad as the ME series, "hot lesbian shower" scene anyone?

 

Ugh yes. Although at least Traynor talks about what she's looking for in a partner and makes it clear she's a lesbian. 

I get vaguely annoyed when a gay man is written by a woman or a lesbian is written by a man...it just doesn't end up feeling right. The gay man ends up being written like a yaoi fangirl's fettish fodder and the lesbian ends up being written either as a complete stereotype or a douchebag's porn fantasy. 

[FiveThreeTen]

I'd like to remind people that DA2 "playersexual cast" had different lines depending on your gender and it was really nice (Isabela and Fenris romance specifically).

Just changing the pronouns doesn't feel satisfying.

 

I admit, the only characters I wanted to romance were Cass and Dorian, both unavailable to me. Thankfully I like playing different classes so I will see one of them in my Two Handed dwarf playthrough (and I'm very pleased with Curry voice acting from what little I have played with him) so it's not that much of a big deal for me but still disappointing.

[rak72]

I like the way it is.  First run I played a female and romanced Cullen, I'm playing a male romancing Cassandra now, I'm having a lot of fun with him. I adore Dorian, and I will try a gay man for him next run - not a character that I would normally try, this helps get people out of their comfort zones.

 

As it is in life, we can't always be with the one we want.