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[Undead Han]

I think the discrepancy is because the intro isn't the 'real' destruction of the Conclave, it's just the Inquisitor dreaming/reliving it while a prisoner. Because the Inquisitor has lost part of his or her memory, the details are off.

[Helmetto]

I think the discrepancy is because the intro isn't the 'real' destruction of the Conclave, it's just the Inquisitor dreaming/reliving it while a prisoner. Because the Inquisitor has lost part of his or her memory, the details are off.

The Inquisitor dreams of a person who looks exactly like the Spirit we encounter, that we only encounter half-way through the game, and as Justinia first before she reveals her form...which is the exact person that we, the player, see.

 

A bit confusing, but its obvious that we're being played for fools.

[Korva]

Remember that other people also saw a woman's form behind us when we fell out of the Fade. That is where the whole "Herald of Andraste" thing came from, after all. Presumably they saw the spirit because they'd surely have recognized Justinia.

[CosmicGnosis]

Remember that other people also saw a woman's form behind us when we fell out of the Fade. That is where the whole "Herald of Andraste" thing came from, after all. Presumably they saw the spirit because they'd surely have recognized Justinia.

You know, that's a really great point that needs to be made. Surely the people who witnessed the Inquisitor's escape would have recognized Justinia, especially while dressed in her Chantry robe. The fact that they just saw an unknown woman suggests that they didn't perceive her as the Divine. Maybe she looked like someone else to them.

[Helmetto]

You know, that's a really great point that needs to be made. Surely the people who witnessed the Inquisitor's escape would have recognized Justinia, especially while dressed in her Chantry robe. The fact that they just saw an unknown woman suggests that they didn't perceive her as the Divine. Maybe she looked like someone else to them.

In fairness, how many people know what the current pope looks like? I don't.

[robertthebard]

Remember that other people also saw a woman's form behind us when we fell out of the Fade. That is where the whole "Herald of Andraste" thing came from, after all. Presumably they saw the spirit because they'd surely have recognized Justinia.

What we don't know is from how far away they observed her. If they were a couple of hundred yards/meters away, they might tell she's a woman, but not who.

[CosmicGnosis]

I wonder if that Fade spirit, or whatever it is, was always attached to Justinia in some way, kind of like Wynne and the Seekers of Truth. Perhaps Corypheus recognized this?

[rigron]

We know, it was Vince all along

 

[SurelyForth]

I sincerely hope that it was not just a Spirit of Faith. I fully agree with the aboves that everything she represented clearly indicates that she is one.

 

But like someone said earlier, I have a serious problem with her being something already known and so easily quantifiable. Mostly because of her absurd level of strength/power. The Nightmare truly is the most powerful being ever shown in the Dragon Age universe. This Justinia/Spirit one-shotted it; at least temporarily. Whatever she was must be truly impressive. To suddenly say she's a Spirit of Faith really undercuts the mystery, and borderline goes against established canon. 

I personally think she's the antithesis of the Nightmare. Whereas that is the embodiment of an entire world's collective terror; I feel that Justinia was an uber-spirit; such as Belief. Similar to Faith but far more powerful, just like Nightmare is similar to fear, terror, and even compassion, but far more powerful.

 

TL&DR: I think it was "Belief."

 

She could still be a spirit of Faith and extremely powerful. Spirits are not carbon copies of one another. Look at Solas' quest- the spirit of Wisdom that he knows cannot be replaced even if another spirit of Wisdom is created in the same place. The experiences it reflects, the wisdom it gains, will be different. If it is exposed to more wisdom, it can grow stronger than Solas' friend, in time. If its experience is narrow, it will be a shadow of Solas' friend.

 

The same could be said of Faith. There are probably wisps of Faith in some places and we know there are spirits of Faith that can sustain the life of someone like Wynne. With someone like the Divine, whose entire life is defined by her faith and the fact that she perpetuates faith, an attendant spirit of Faith could grow quite powerful- after all, it would be empowered by not only the Divine, but all those around her who are both in the Chantry and devoted to Andraste and the Maker.

 

(and this is ignoring the possibility that this spirit could be quite old and one that has watched over many Divines over the years, which would only make her stronger)

 

So, basically, I think you are limiting the scope of what a spirit can be by assuming that their is a ceiling on how much power a certain type of spirit can actually accrue. 

[Fireheart]

So I'm not the only one who knew it was Justinia in the beginning of the game? When I first saw that spirit at the beginning of the game, and then heard the name Justinia, I immediately realized it was Justinia who rescued the IQ from the Fade. This is why I found everyone in the game to be very stupid, always calling me the Herald of Andraste. I kept thinking to myself, if they saw the person behind me well enough to make out it was a woman, shouldn't they have realized it was Justinia? I, someone who had never seen Justinia before was able to figure out who that was, but the people who work with her, and protect her, couldn't identify her? Very odd. Another plot hole added to the bunch.

[Vader20]

So I'm not the only one who knew it was Justinia in the beginning of the game? When I first saw that spirit at the beginning of the game, and then heard the name Justinia, I immediately realized it was Justinia who rescued the IQ from the Fade. This is why I found everyone in the game to be very stupid, always calling me the Herald of Andraste. I kept thinking to myself, if they saw the person behind me well enough to make out it was a woman, shouldn't they have realized it was Justinia? I, someone who had never seen Justinia before was able to figure out who that was, but the people who work with her, and protect her, couldn't identify her? Very odd. Another plot hole added to the bunch.

 

 

Well, you certainly were very perceptive, because I was always curious who the hell was that woman in the Fade.... The only thing I knew 500% is that it wasn't Andraste.  No way in hell, and that's why this Herald of Andraste thing all those morons getting on their knees before you was very annoying. The fact that you could role play as a religious fanatic was not very appealing to me.

 

I was also annoyed by  how the game tries to make a tragedy out the Divine's death and how you should feel sorry. Well I couldn't care less about her...good riddance I say.

[Mykel54]

I created this thread so people can speculate on what this fade divine really was, and how it related to the real divine.

 

When the party is thrown physically in the fade, they encounter a certain entity which looks exactly like the Divine, speaks like her, and according to conversation with Cassandra and Leliana, had a very similar behaviour (calm and helpful) than the real divine.

 

We learn that the Divine died at Haven, we don´t know if in the explosion or because she was devoured by demons in the fade - as the memory of the inquisitor shows. The memories of the inquisitor are interesting because none of them match exactly with the intro of the game. At the intro we see this spirit extending her arm to the inquisitor, and from the connection with her fingers some green sparks start appearing from her hand, going into the inquisitor.

 

Thus it made sense to think that she granted the mark to the inquisitor in the fade. However in the real world, the inquisitor got the mark by picking up the elven orb who was conveniently activated and ready to just tap into it to get the anchor.

 

The inquisitor can wonder what this fade entity really was, he is given several options like: she is the soul justinia, she is a spirit that watched over justinia, she is a memory of justinia. If you ask this fade divine, she says things are not simple and that she may be nothing of those things or all of them.

 

Here is my theory about what happened, feel free to comment or share your own theories.

 

The divine you meet is a spirit of Faith who was watching over Justinia, but she also knew Leliana and Cassandra personally. She was disappointed how Leliana had lost her faith after the explosion at Haven (the game shows leliana´s doubts several times), and felt like she had failer her. She also refuses to tell you who she is, wanting you to have faith in her and believe what you want - she also does not claim to be Andraste, but speaks like she believes in the Maker.

 

In the real world, the divine died at the explosion as the spirit of faith tried but failed to protect her - even though she was watching. You are saved because you have the anchor, so you enter the fade during the explosion, avoiding death. Corypheus survives because he is immortal, he just migrated to some warden or blighted creature when his body died. The next memory shows a scene with the inquisitor being pursued by spiders, and "Justinia" and the inquisitor in the fade. "Justinia" says: the demons! , so even if they look like spiders, this Justinia clearly knew very quickly they were demons - this points to her being a spirit and recognising them quickly, even if they look like spiders, the fade is her turf so it makes sense. The inquisitor however does not know what he is running from, it looks like spiders, but he just says at the intro "things were chasing me".

 

While in the fade, this spirit takes the form of Justinia to guide you to a rift to the real world, and makes sure that you escape through - even if she has stay behind. She also may be the one that helps you unlock the anchor so it sticks to you permanently, so that Corypheus could not remove it from you when he tried.

 

The spirit is made up of faith emotions, so she was attracted to Justinia, Leliana and Cassandra, possibly because their faith made her stronger. She also wants to help out and do good, and it is possible that Justinia´s soul upon dead coalesced into this spirit, thus giving it the ability to take her form. The spirit felt he failed the divine by not saving her, and Leliana by letting her lose her faith, therefore she is very willing to make up for it and as a spirit she knows how important is to foil Corypheus plan to break open the black city (and possibly unleast the taint), so like she says "i am here to help you" - she does everything she can to help you from the very beginning of the game.

 

In conclusion, i think she is mainly a spirit of faith, but she probably took the essence of Justinia after she died, plus have been feeding on all the faith of people like Cassandra, Leliana, etc. so she was powerful enough to strike a blow agaisnt the nightmare, but she probably died as an individual entity - like Solas says in his quest about her friend.

[Oroko]

I'm not sure if it was a bug on my laptop or if everyone see it, but when I hovered my pointer over the "spirit" it said it was "Serenity".

[katokires]

This topic is very simples: We have little information about how a person soul reacts after death.

We have even more little information, as in none, about what would happen if someone died in a explosion that sent things to the fade.

Short answer, as in almost everything about Dragon Age: We have absolutely no idea.

A spirit can almost become a person, like Cole. Perhaps depending on your actions he actually becomes one...

So would it be possible to a person become a spirit?
What if a person soul is partially a spirit and when we die we release this spirit and our soul becomes another entity? Like as if the soul was a mix of a "spirit of self" and "another spirit"? Or even many spirits and when we die it is like light passing through a prism and decomposing its colors.

I could think of lots of theories.

She is a spirit. She is partially Justinia. But we can't know if she was Justinia, if she was inside Justinia, if she was possessing Justinia or even if she was just immitating Justinia like a Col-e-nvy Demon. Also, we will never know how much Justinia she was...

It is funny to come up with theories but in cases like this it is really a lot more imagination and wishful thinking than theories.

[nightscrawl]

Or you know, you could just let people RP it however they want. Nothing is explicitly stated.

[Falcon084]

It could have been Andraste

[Precursor Meta]

Well no matter what you say or what you believed you saw, the people of Southern Thedas will believe that you are the Herald of Andraste.

Pretty messed up when you think about it, especially if you out right deny your heraldry. I mean believing in a maker has yet to be proven wrong, but we actually know what happened in inquisition.

[Ashagar]

Its may be messed up but it is honestly realistic, think of how often in the past and present where something is denied and it taken as conformation that it is true. Then throw in that the Inquisitor repeatedly does things that seems impossible, walking out of the fade... twice, apparently walking out of certain death at haven after facing down a ancient darkspawn Magister who's actions brought the darkspawn on the world and etc.

[Poledo]

The game clearly hints you that it is a spirit, which took Justinia's form/memories.

Just as Compassion did with Cole.

 

However, you can still roleplay an Inquisitor who still believes THAT was Justinia, and not a spirit. The game does not explicitly say you it is a spirit, so you can choose what to believe, which is actually cool.

 

The game definitely wants you to make the call on what she is and really leaves you the options to decide what you think and make others believe the same.

[Retro-bit]

If that is the story you wish to tell then it's a good one....

[Kantr]

In fairness, how many people know what the current pope looks like? I don't.

True, but the people around there are likely to have seen her when setting up the place.

[Cha0sEff3ct]

If that is the story you wish to tell then it's a good one....

lol I totally wanted to say this.

 

In fairness, how many people know what the current pope looks like? I don't.

And they don't have social media yet in Thedas.

 

What we don't know is from how far away they observed her. If they were a couple of hundred yards/meters away, they might tell she's a woman, but not who.

I don't see how they can tell she was a woman. Unless they deduced that from the chantry mother outfit. Then they should've of known it was Justinia or at least a chantry mother. I wanted to believe it was Andraste but I knew it was Justinia from the stupid shaped wimple when I first saw a chantry mother in the game.

[citizen002057394]

Hmm.. at first I thought she was Justinia. But now I'm convinced she could be Andraste's spirit... If Mythal and Fen'Harel are out and about then it's possible that Andraste would too 

[Fireheart]

I'm a little surprised people are diving so deep into the "Justinia in the Fade" mystery. I never wondered what she was, and once I was out of the Fade, I just forgot about her. If anything, I'd say she was merely a spirit; Justinia's spirit who got stuck in the Fade. I believe someone in the game explained how some people, when they die, they linger in the Fade for one reason or another. I agree with this person.

 

I 1000% don't believe it is Andraste. Why the flippin hell would Andraste be in the damn Fade. She should be at the side of the Maker, wherever he is.