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"Justinia" in the Fade is NOT the real Divine Justinia


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#101
D_Schattenjager

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 If I recall, there was a fight and a codex that implied that a mage at the Conclave was transformed into a rage demon after the explosion, sort of like how the baroness from Awakening became a pride demon. So it's possible that Justinia could also have been transformed into a spirit of faith or something similar in the Fade.

Those are instances of possession ,,, whereas this was a spirit?



#102
D_Schattenjager

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Yeah, I'm thinking that was a spirit of faith that was drawn to Justinia and ended up absorbing part of her before she died much like Cole did with the real Cole.

Compassion manifested outside the Fade as Cole

We cannot automatically assume that Faith manifested inside the Fade as Justinia

Outside and Inside is a major difference maker, as we have seen constantly ...



#103
elnawawi

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She could still be a spirit of Faith and extremely powerful. Spirits are not carbon copies of one another. Look at Solas' quest- the spirit of Wisdom that he knows cannot be replaced even if another spirit of Wisdom is created in the same place. The experiences it reflects, the wisdom it gains, will be different. If it is exposed to more wisdom, it can grow stronger than Solas' friend, in time. If its experience is narrow, it will be a shadow of Solas' friend.

 

The same could be said of Faith. There are probably wisps of Faith in some places and we know there are spirits of Faith that can sustain the life of someone like Wynne. With someone like the Divine, whose entire life is defined by her faith and the fact that she perpetuates faith, an attendant spirit of Faith could grow quite powerful- after all, it would be empowered by not only the Divine, but all those around her who are both in the Chantry and devoted to Andraste and the Maker.

 

(and this is ignoring the possibility that this spirit could be quite old and one that has watched over many Divines over the years, which would only make her stronger)

 

So, basically, I think you are limiting the scope of what a spirit can be by assuming that their is a ceiling on how much power a certain type of spirit can actually accrue. 

 

I think Jaws of Hakkon proved much of this , the way Hakkon formed, and reformed, the believes and worship of people that form a strong spirit that believes it's Hakkon and plays the role (and believes itself a god)? The fade which reflects the mortal world, like mirror?

 

It's the official chantry story to explain old gods of Tevinter, and it seems what explain the spirits that explain Avvar gods. And it's what explain Justina in the fade, a spirit, but not just a spirit .. a reflection of what Justinia (and maybe all divines) believed, and what people believed she is.



#104
Big I

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There's no way to know for sure because for some bizarre reason Justinia in the Fade refuses to confirm or deny anything. However, we have seen people become spirits before. The Baroness from DA:A and the bad guy from Dawn of the Seeker both transformed into Pride demons (and DotS is definitely canon because it's referenced in DA:I). There's no evidence either was possessed.



#105
simonrana

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People don't turn into spirits.

The being we meet in the Fade is not Andrastre disguised as a spirit of Faith disguised as the divine.

The divine did not carry the escence of Andruil.

The levels of stupid expressed in this thread are insane.

#106
Big I

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People don't turn into spirits

 

We don't know that for certain. Obviously the reverse is true (Cole, maybe the ancient elves), and there is anecdotal evidence that people can turn into demons at least (the Baroness, the bad guy from Dawn of the Seeker, maybe that Rage demon triggered by the codex entry at Adamant).


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#107
Xerrai

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Ultimately, the 'truth' about the Justinia-Spirit is never revealed. It was intentionally left ambiguous so players could choose whatever answer they wanted.

She could be a spirit.

She could be Justinia's soul.

She could be Andraste for all you care.

 

One of the themes explored with that whole ordeal were ideas pertaining to faith. So it is quite fitting that they never explicitly answer what she was, even though you are more than free to come up with whatever conclusion you wish.

 

But as a general rule, I find that most people prefer to think of her as a Spirit of some sort instead of Justinia's legit soul. But you are more than free to believe whatever you wish.



#108
fhs33721

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People don't turn into spirits.

The Baroness did.