459 réponses à ce sujet

[Digger1967]

Well I don't really care that much about the chargers, but I do care about Bull - and frankly the one time I saved the Dreadnaught after seeing the effect that has on my friend, I had to back up and go the other route.  

[Jedimaster88]

I honestly dont know. I have made two playthroughs. One where I saved the chargers and one where I saved the Dreadnaught.

 

Once the new patch for the PC-version comes, I intend to make my "canon" world state for future games and DLC. Im still wondering which one I should choose. Saving the alliance meant new war table missions and a chance to damage the venatori spynetwork and save lifes but Bull was...less cheerful. The way he said "yes?" when I talked to him, he almost sounded angry at my Inquisitor. When I saved the chargers, he seemed much happier and I like bull more when he is a cheerful big guy.

 

choices, choices, choices...

[kalasaurus]

[Chardonney]

Burn, baby, burn. I always save the Chargers without a doubt.

[Moirin]

Most of my games I save the Chargers, I do have one with a qunari alliance however.

[Qun00]

I figured there were probably a lot more crewmen on that dreadnaught than there were Chargers in Bull's Company, so I found the decision rather difficult for that reason alone. Had nothing to do with my thought about the Qunari or a potential alliance with them.I chose the Chargers because friends are more important than strangers, but I was hoping the game would make me feel worse about sacrificing all of those lives beyond Bull's morbid new tarot card.

But consider this: That dreadnaught was filled with qunari. Not regular people, but qunari.

A bunch of broody horned men who wish to make more and more people submit to their way of life in the future.

Tis' not a loss, but a glorious day for all Thedas.

[Fredward]

But consider this: That dreadnaught was filled with qunari. Not regular people, but qunari.

A bunch of broody horned men who wish to make more and more people submit to their way of life in the future.

Tis' not a loss, but a glorious day for all Thedas.

 

Nah, it was filled with people who are a product of their environment, just like everybody else and who no doubt held a mix of attitudes toward it ranging from close-to-defecting to rabidly devout.

 

 

I usually pick the Chargers cuz my Inquisitor's generally just aren't that hard at that stage (or ever) but I hear you get a pretty involved quest chain if you go with the qunari so maybe next time.

[Jaison1986]

I let it burn. An Qunari alliance sounds interesting in the short term, but the problem comes in the long term. They only help you because you are dealing with an problem that is of great concern to them, but once said problem is out of the way, what stops them from turning on you? You are still an Bas, and to the Qunari, the only viable path for an Bas is "enlightment". That would not bode well for the Inquisition.

[congokong]

Reading these posts, I have to wonder, are people arguing to save the Chargers from a rpg perspective or actually believing it's the right decision? Rather scary if the latter is true.

[TheRatPack55]

Reading these posts, I have to wonder, are people arguing to save the Chargers from a rpg perspective or actually believing it's the right decision? Rather scary if the latter is true.

 

Honestly, I feel any Inquisitor who does not wish for themselves and/or their people to be brainwashed in the foreseeable future would be an idiot to believe in, and support, any kind of 'alliance' with the Qun.

 

Saving the chargers is just an enjoyable side-benefit...

[Carmen_Willow]

I'm not particularly fond of the Qunari politics. Like Solas, I find their insistence on taking even freedom of thought away from their citizens repellent. In politics, Inquisitions, like nations, must sometimes sleep with the devil, but I was not going to sacrifice the men and women of the Chargers to save that alliance. Sooner or later, the Qunari basic premise of do as you were bred to do is going to conflict with the premise of live and let live.  So I don't feel too bad about not making them stronger.

[congokong]

Honestly, I feel any Inquisitor who does not wish for themselves and/or their people to be brainwashed in the foreseeable future would be an idiot to believe in, and support, any kind of 'alliance' with the Qun.

 

Saving the chargers is just an enjoyable side-benefit...

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Saving the world takes priority. Don't burn bridges.

[Rekkampum]

I've sacrificed the Chargers in a couple playthroughs lately, although I tend toward the opposite(gotta love Krem!). Having an alliance with the Qunari and the assistance of the Benn-Hassrath is a great advantage(assuming they actually mean something outside of metagaming). Plus you also gain the respect of the Qunari with the title Basalit-an, so at the very least, they'll be more willing to negotiate and form truces with you than they would normal Bas. That being said, I atleast know, given how true the Qunari are to their promises, that they won't be compromising any trust that we've built.

 

Of course, saving the Chargers loses them and their extensive spy network, but in return I gain my own operatives - not including the other company - who have their own uses, though not on as intricate a scale as the Benn-Hassrath. So it's not really a right or wrong choice; while many may be pragmatic in their decisions, I think it largely hinges on how receptive we are to the Qunari, and by extension, the Qun.

[congokong]

I'm not particularly fond of the Qunari politics. Like Solas, I find their insistence on taking even freedom of thought away from their citizens repellent. In politics, Inquisitions, like nations, must sometimes sleep with the devil, but I was not going to sacrifice the men and women of the Chargers to save that alliance. Sooner or later, the Qunari basic premise of do as you were bred to do is going to conflict with the premise of live and let live.  So I don't feel too bad about not making them stronger.

So you'd let hundreds die (on that ship alone) to save five people who don't even care about good causes because they're qunari? Qunari lives aren't important because they may one day "do as they were bred to do?" You shouldn't care about Iron Bull either then because he's one of them until he lets that ship go down.

 

If Corypheus was threatening the world I would take that alliance in a heartbeat. I wouldn't have the luxury of thinking "one day down the road they might be a problem so I can't let them here at all." And in the real world that's how it works. A familiar example: In WWII the U.S. didn't hesitate to align with Stalin's Soviet Union despite hating and fearing the spread of communism once Hitler broke the peace pact by invading Russia. They didn't shun the alliance because "one day they may be trouble."

[congokong]

Of course, saving the Chargers loses them and their extensive spy network, but in return I gain my own operatives - not including the other company - who have their own uses, though not on as intricate a scale as the Benn-Hassrath. So it's not really a right or wrong choice; while many may be pragmatic in their decisions, I think it largely hinges on how receptive we are to the Qunari, and by extension, the Qun.

That's the thing. "Receptiveness to the qun" is in logical circles called "appealing to emotion" in favor of certain decisions. From a "trying to save the world" tactical standpoint that shouldn't be a factor. If you're role-playing, then fine, have your mage burn the alliance because they hate qunari. People are emotional and flawed so it could happen. But choosing five mercenaries over the Ben-Hassrath in an alliance to save the world is ludicrous.

[MisterJB]

I think I'd sooner ally with/use the Venatori against the Qunari.

[Rekkampum]

That's the thing. "Receptiveness to the qun" is in logical circles called "appealing to emotion" in favor of certain decisions. From a "trying to save the world" tactical standpoint that shouldn't be a factor. If you're role-playing, then fine, have your mage burn the alliance because they hate qunari. People are emotional and flawed so it could happen. But choosing five mercenaries over the Ben-Hassrath in an alliance to save the world is ludicrous.

 

No, it's not always "appealing to emotion". There are very tangible reasons that some may not find an alliance with the Qunari to be of high priority. And it's not just five mercenaries at your disposal. You have Leliana's spy network - which is quite extensive - and depending on how you handled Hilamshiral, possibly the backing of three major Orlesian powers. Not to mention support from other countries and numerous other things I could recount if I had the time. A short term alliance in a moment of desperation may seem plausible to you, but for others, the threat of invasion in the long-term is too much of a concern to risk.

 

You believe joining with the Qunari is the best decision, and that's perfectly fine. Others don't, and aside from the obvious there are many with valid reasons to oppose them.

[Tarlonniel]

Honestly, in most of my games I don't recruit IB in the first place because my PCs don't see any pressing need to hire a mercenary company, especially one headed by a Qunari spy. The few times I did recruit the Chargers, there was no hesitatation when the choice came up. I never really wanted Qunari around in the first place.

[congokong]

No, it's not always "appealing to emotion". There are very tangible reasons that some may not find an alliance with the Qunari to be of high priority. And it's not just five mercenaries at your disposal. You have Leliana's spy network - which is quite extensive - and depending on how you handled Hilamshiral, possibly the backing of three major Orlesian powers. Not to mention support from other countries and numerous other things I could recount if I had the time. A short term alliance in a moment of desperation may seem plausible to you, but for others, the threat of invasion in the long-term is too much of a concern to risk.

 

You believe joining with the Qunari is the best decision, and that's perfectly fine. Others don't, and aside from the obvious there are many with valid reasons to oppose them.

How is it not just five mercenaries? Were there others on that beach?

[TheRatPack55]

So you'd let hundreds die (on that ship alone) to save five people who don't even care about good causes because they're qunari? Qunari lives aren't important because they may one day "do as they were bred to do?" You shouldn't care about Iron Bull either then because he's one of them until he lets that ship go down.

 

If Corypheus was threatening the world I would take that alliance in a heartbeat. I wouldn't have the luxury of thinking "one day down the road they might be a problem so I can't let them here at all." And in the real world that's how it works. A familiar example: In WWII the U.S. didn't hesitate to align with Stalin's Soviet Union despite hating and fearing the spread of communism once Hitler broke the peace pact by invading Russia. They didn't shun the alliance because "one day they may be trouble."

Uh-oh, as someone from an 'allied' country, that got directly effed-over by that alliance, I'm naturally finding this attitude iffy. But this is fantasy and it's best we do not get any closer to invoking Godwins' law.

 

That's the thing. "Receptiveness to the qun" is in logical circles called "appealing to emotion" in favor of certain decisions. From a "trying to save the world" tactical standpoint that shouldn't be a factor. If you're role-playing, then fine, have your mage burn the alliance because they hate qunari. People are emotional and flawed so it could happen. But choosing five mercenaries over the Ben-Hassrath in an alliance to save the world is ludicrous.

This I very much agree with. The issue is I do not see the 'alliance' as beneficial in the long term. Also, the 'save the world' factor of the decision is entirely role-playing and metagaming - in-game it has no impact. I saved the world just fine on my own.

 

I think I'd sooner ally with/use the Venatori against the Qunari.

If I could, I would... I'd actually love an option of allying with Cory, but I guess that's just my love for villain protagonists showing... 

[Rekkampum]

How is it not just five mercenaries? Were there others on that beach?

 

I think it's obvious that anyone with sense who chooses to save the Chargers over the alliance would consider all of their resources apart from them. Hence the other things I went into detail about.

[Jaison1986]

So you'd let hundreds die (on that ship alone) to save five people who don't even care about good causes because they're qunari? Qunari lives aren't important because they may one day "do as they were bred to do?" You shouldn't care about Iron Bull either then because he's one of them until he lets that ship go down.

 

If Corypheus was threatening the world I would take that alliance in a heartbeat. I wouldn't have the luxury of thinking "one day down the road they might be a problem so I can't let them here at all." And in the real world that's how it works. A familiar example: In WWII the U.S. didn't hesitate to align with Stalin's Soviet Union despite hating and fearing the spread of communism once Hitler broke the peace pact by invading Russia. They didn't shun the alliance because "one day they may be trouble."

 

Not exactly the best argument considering the USA and Russia nearly destroyed the world with nuclear holocaust during the Cuba crisis. That alliance was good back then, but look at what happened later.

It's simply a case of not trusting the Qunari at a long term. I for one don't deny the alliance for the sake of the Chargers alone. If the alliance was with an more honorable organization, I would contemplate it.