459 réponses à ce sujet

[The Baconer]

That sword literally represents the very role and purpose he was trained to fulfill in the Qun. Losing that means he's basically a bas, possibly less than that.

 

No more or less than a signed parchment can represent an interest in peace. A farmer loses a sickle, so you replace the sickle. A miner loses their pick, replace the pick. Simple materials are worth nothing without the skill of their wielders, and a sword is just another object of utility. Killing a soldier over losing one (I mean, not even going for the Qamek treatment in the very least) is just astoundingly wasteful.

 

 

Also, the branches of the Qun operate differently. How the Ben-Hassrath would handle their agents is likely different from the Antaam.

 

I imagine it can get confused and disorderly. Arishok SNAFU from DA2 pretty much confirms that.

[The Baconer]

They fit the lore, so they're not inconsistent. Perhaps incomprehensible to those outside of them, but according to their traditions it obviously makes sense.

 

I might have a tradition of 2+2 = 3, but that doesn't mean it makes sense.

 

 

He also surrendered once he recognized what he'd done and that he'd dishonored himself, taking responsibility for what he did and accepting the punishment meted out to him. Out of curiosity, how exactly does a person acting responsibly make dehumanizing them easier?

 

The implication that they are always one step away from going full rabid, frothing animal mode. Iron Bull seems to agree, to an extent :>

[Rekkampum]

I might have a tradition of 2+2 = 3, but that doesn't mean it makes sense.

 

 

 

The implication that they are always one step away from going full rabid, frothing animal mode. Iron Bull seems to agree, to an extent :>

 

That's nice and all, but that's your opinion. This isn't a matter of mathematics, but of an established law in a system of gov't that is essentially a meritocracy of sorts. What you do or don't feel are valid customs and rules won't matter when you're in someone else's territory. You're subject to their rules.

 

Also, Bull's assumption is entirely different and requires context. He's spent years fighting Tal-Vashoth mercenaries in Seheron and elsewhere and automatically associates what he experienced with what he thinks will happen to him outside of the Qun.

[Rekkampum]

Ah, here's an interesting debate.

 

Some might say it really is as simple as mathematics. It comes down to whether you believe in universal principals. Rather than moral relativity. 

 

Funnily, you adhere to this moral relativity, but the Qunari are a culture of universalism themselves. I would say that the only way to combat them is to espouse your own brand of universalism. Outright war. There is no other hope. Rather than a message of tolerance. To me, the more you tolerate the monstrous and unjust, the more you'll become a victim to it eventually.

 

I am not a relativist. I'm a person who recognizes that systems of gov't sometimes operate differently. That's Sociology 101.

[The Baconer]

That's nice and all, but that's your opinion. This isn't a matter of mathematics, but of an established law in a system of gov't that is essentially a meritocracy of sorts. What you do or don't feel are valid customs and rules won't matter when you're in someone else's territory. You're subject to their rules.

 

Claiming to waste nothing while simultaneously doing gratuitously wasteful things doesn't make sense. Opinion has nothing to do with it.

 

 

Also, Bull's assumption is entirely different and requires context. He's spent years fighting Tal-Vashoth mercenaries in Seheron and elsewhere and automatically associates what he experienced with what he thinks will happen to him outside of the Qun.

 

Not only him, according to his own statement. I'm just inclined to agree with him for the sake of slandering the Qunari :>

[Rekkampum]

I thought it was more about culture clash and morals. 

 

Actual governmental systems don't mean a lot to me. But since the Qunari's goverment and culture is so closely entwined, we're still talking about morality and ethical views. Rather than mere laws. The Qunari themselves would say they protect a whole way of life and being --- for everyone. Even people outside Sehereon. That's why they keep trying to meddle and invade. They want the war themselves. I welcome it.

 

No. I'm not a person who gets into that kind of stuff. It never ends well in these forums.

 

And one could argue the same about the US or any other country re: how entwined one's morals and ethical views are with their gov't, which is why I shy away from relative arguments and focus on more tangible ones. I don't see how one can treat the Qunari differently in that account, especially knowing the history of many countries in the real world.

 

Nonetheless, we still know little about them apart from what we've been able to learn so far.

 

EDIT: Also as I noted already, Bull is Ben-Hassrath. Sten is a member of the Beresaad, who are part of the Antaam, the Qun's military branch. Those two operate extremely differently, so it's not inconsistent.

 

I'm honestly anxious as to how they treat this situation as it's a very rich plot element they've been alluding to since the first game.

[Rekkampum]

Well, I'm not trying to be unpleasant. I just hate wasting time, when I see enemies. So I apply it here. Might as well cut to the chase and get the war over with. Vacillating between conflict and tolerance does me no good.

 

Disagreeing and offering your own reasons isn't being unpleasant. That demonstrates critical thinking skills. The types I'm talking about are the ones who get threads locked because they can't debate without turning into caricatures of 12 year old Call of Duty players.

[Rekkampum]

I understand. Thanks for listening.

 

I don't know to what extent I'm debating though. It's more like... I'm just as sure of my own stance about them as they are of theirs. And the only thing to come from this is war eventually (no necessarily me btw.. I'm kind of roleplaying and speaking in character for now.. just to point out the obvious).

 

 I just want to get it over with. I have no interest in tolerating or befriending them. I can respect them and learn.. but I would fight back nonetheless. I'm not a Tevinter fan, but I think I'm probably in the Tevinter camp... where they and the Qunari just relish in unending conflict between each other.

 

You like those shemlen who stole our technology and brought the Blight on the world? I'll have to keep an eye on you.

 

Seriously, it's a plot point that they will likely address as their focus heads north - which they've mentioned they're interested in. I like that we're in a new gen of consoles because that means they have a lot more to work with.

[Rekkampum]

No, that's the funny thing.. I don't like them.

 

When the time comes, I'll probably be just as combative about Tevinter too. I tolerate them more though. I know they can bend, and I know that once, they had good intentions as a Chantry nation after Hessarian. The Qunari are more of a clear and present danger. And there's nothing you can do to bend them to coexist with anyone else.

 

The way Dorian describes it really makes it a place I'm eager to visit.

[Lady Artifice]

The types I'm talking about are the ones who get threads locked because they can't debate without turning into caricatures of 12 year old Call of Duty players.

 

Heheh.

[Han Shot First]

What I must ask is: what's the point of doing this quest if you don't trust the qunari?
.

 

Real world alliances are quite often marriages of convenience, and it isn't uncommon for two nations who would otherwise be opposed to each other to ally against a common foe. Apologies for the Godwin, but one of the best examples of that is the alliance between the Western Allies and the Soviet Union in the Second World War.

 

Although allying with the Qunari has no effect on game play, from a lore perspective it should be a major boon to the Inquisition's war effort. The Inquisition is without a navy, and your enemies (the Venatori) are being reinforced by sea. Red lyrium was also being shipped south to help supply the Red Templars. The Qunari meanwhile, are the leading naval power in Thedas. From a lore perspective a Qunari alliance should have a major strategic benefit, in giving the Inquisition a means to stem the tide of reinforcements or red lyrium to southern Thedas.

 

An alliance however would not mean that the Inquisition would be forever tied to the Qunari, or that there is any love or devotion to the Qun. It's simply an example of 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend.' 

[Xilizhra]

Real world alliances are quite often marriages of convenience, and it isn't uncommon for two nations who would otherwise be opposed to each other to ally against a common foe. Apologies for the Godwin, but one of the best examples of that is the alliance between the Western Allies and the Soviet Union in the Second World War.

 

Although allying with the Qunari has no effect on game play, from a lore perspective it should be a major boon to the Inquisition's war effort. The Inquisition is without a navy, and your enemies (the Venatori) are being reinforced by sea. Red lyrium was also being shipped south to help supply the Red Templars. The Qunari meanwhile, are the leading naval power in Thedas. From a lore perspective a Qunari alliance should have a major strategic benefit, in giving the Inquisition a means to stem the tide of reinforcements or red lyrium to southern Thedas.

You know, by the time that you do Demands of the Qun, if you did Here Lies the Abyss before Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts, the Inquisition has pretty much won. All Corypheus has left is one push on the Arbor Wilds. It feels more like the qunari are jumping in at the last moment to seize credit and take a foothold.

[Han Shot First]

You know, by the time that you do Demands of the Qun, if you did Here Lies the Abyss before Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts, the Inquisition has pretty much won. All Corypheus has left is one push on the Arbor Wilds. It feels more like the qunari are jumping in at the last moment to seize credit and take a foothold.

 

That is a fair point. The Qunari are fairly late to the game. 

[Maples01]

The Qunari live by the Qun, I take no chances with the spread to my region, "the enemy of my enemy, is my friend," is a poor code to live by, it will get you conquered or killed, if you have payed any attention to the previous games you would know how dangerous they are and would not want them to come to your aid, because they will be able to establish a foothold. 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Qunari.

 

I mean, the Chargers got the easy job and still wiped!

 

Same deal as when Josephine asks you to choose between allying with Nevarra or Tevinter.  I am a big Turdvinter detractor, but I went with them because their alliance offered more. Gotta go with the stronger ally.

[GoldenGail3]

Oh, the Qunari Alliance meant nothing to me, I don't want to find Sten attempting to take over Thedas while my Warden is away... Cause that'd be bad, so I chose to sarifice the Alliance while the Chargers lived, two of my Inquisitors did this (one warrior who romanced Cassandra, but he wanted his companions to be happy, plus he doesn't really care for the Qunari anyhow and the other a Mage and you can see why she didn't take the alliance deal).

[Cyrus Amell]

When first approached with this proposition by Iron Bull I was very interested. With the expertise of the Ben-Hassrath and the might of the Qunari navy the Inquisition could really get a leg-up on our enemies. But then we get to first signal fire and I just could not go through with it.

 

For one thing, the Bull's Chargers are Iron Bull's family - no really, this is as close to an analogous family as Qunari get. Your fellow soldiers are your brothers et cetera. So for the Iron Bull, letting the Chargers die would be as bad as you or I seeing your own family die. Granted I did have a serious regret at having to trade the lives of an entire dreadnought crew, 30 to even 100 people, whether or not they were Qunari as this seemed pretty harsh. 

 

Then again, the Chargers are actually quite useful. I don't know how many of you spoke with Krem in-between missions but she (yes I know even Bull calls Krem "he") offers wartable operations which, while purely descriptive, are very useful to the Inquisition. You would be trading an elite mercenary contingent that has proven itself in your service time and again for the promises of a distant ally. Can I just say that I have my doubts as to how useful the Qunari would have been as allies? They do not have a track record for this sort of thing because it never happens. 

 

And on top of all this I just briefly imagined the headache the Chantry would give me for allying with a sworn enemy they hated enough to launch an Exalted March against and briefly work in tandem with the Tevinter Imperium. So all in all, I just cut my losses and stuck with what I knew. 

[Illegitimus]

The strongest argument I can see for preserving the alliance is not the Qunari's utility in the immediate fight, which is...limited...but rather the possibility that the Qunari will come to think that it is actually possible to deal with those outside the Qun on any terms other than adversarial.