459 réponses à ce sujet

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

One word.

Krem.

Why would i let my main man die ror a bunch of stuck up giants?

 

BTW who named there Qunarisitor Black Adar?

[Former_Fiend]

For what it's worth, I absolutely understand why people would refuse to sacrifice the Chargers. I'm not entirely unsympathetic to that.

 

For me, personally, though. Every time I make a choice at the war table I'm sending forces into situations that could well result in their deaths. I do it because it needs to be done. 

 

Some people aren't able to live with sacrificing the Chargers because they don't want the deaths of  people they know and like on their conscience. I sacrifice the chargers because my conscience wouldn't be able to take knowing that I treated the Chargers any differently than the thousands of soldiers camped outside Skyhold that I send on life threatening missions every day.  

[Eggplant Hell Princess]

Burn baby burn

[Maiafay]

I hate the Qun, and am incapable of playing characters who don't. Plus, Bull's personality if you save the dreadnought? CREEPY AS HECK. I kept thinking my Quizzie would wakr up one day to find herself in the midst of re-education.
I let the ship sink. I took down Corypheus anyway, so who cares?

Why, what does he do?

[SgtSteel91]

Some people aren't able to live with sacrificing the Chargers because they don't want the deaths of  people they know and like on their conscience. I sacrifice the chargers because my conscience wouldn't be able to take knowing that I treated the Chargers any differently than the thousands of soldiers camped outside Skyhold that I send on life threatening missions every day.  

 

For me though, there's a difference between ordering my men to risk their lives to take a hill and ordering them to die to take a hill.

[Former_Fiend]

For me though, there's a difference between ordering my men to risk their lives to take a hill and ordering them to die to take a hill.

 

If you want to get technical, they had already risked their lives to take the hill. They died to hold it. 

 

Sometimes that has to happen. Isn't easy, and I don't like it. But I don't deny the necessity. 

[Iadro]

There is no point in building an "alliance" with the Qunari, because the Qunari don't give a **** for anyone not of the Qun. Sten himself says in Oriigns that the treaty between the Qunari and the rest of Thedas is worth nothing, the Qunari will invade whenever they please.

 

Do you know what the Qunari word is for anyone not of the Qun?

 

It's bas, as in "trash" or "dirty, useless thing." That is how they view any and all foreigners, the games' protagonists and the rest of Thedas are nothing morre than fodder for the great Qunari collective, and if you argue you'll be shoved face-first in qamek when they do eventually invade. it's imperative to keep that in mind in regards to any "dealings" with them. 

[Former_Fiend]

There is no point in building an "alliance" with the Qunari, because the Qunari don't give a **** for anyone not of the Qun. Sten himself says in Oriigns that the treaty between the Qunari and the rest of Thedas is worth nothing, the Qunari will invade whenever they please.

 

Do you know what the Qunari word is for anyone not of the Qun?

 

It's bas, as in "trash" or "dirty, useless thing." That is how they view any and all foreigners, the games' protagonists and the rest of Thedas are nothing morre than fodder for the great Qunari collective, and if you argue you'll be shoved face-first in qamek when they do eventually invade. it's imperative to keep that in mind in regards to any "dealings" with them. 

 

That's what Sten said in Origins, yes.

 

In Inquisition, Iron Bull says that the Qunari wouldn't use the word "Alliance" unless they meant it. My Inquisitor has never met Sten. He knows Bull, and trusts Bull.

 

Besides, what you say remains true only so long as there is no dialogue between the two sides. So long as it is thought of in terms of "us" and "them", it will only ever be "us" and "them". 

 

I can't say for certain that an alliance with the qunari will be beneficial in the long run. But I am certain that alienating them will only insure war.

[Teshayel]

I don't understand Bioware's insistence on this. Seriously, if there's a third option make us WORK for it instead of yanking it out altogether. Look at the Orlesian ball - if you bust your chops you can force all three to work together. Is it the best outcome? No. But its a third option that you have to work for. Why can't there be a third option for the chargers where you can try to save them and half the team dies?Or if you brought Dorian or Cole they can use haste/Cole's teleport ability to save the Chargers and intercept the Venatori? Not as bad as just watching them get slaughtered. 

 

I agree. This is a video game, not a book or a movie. I have read quite a few books that left a bitter taste in my mouth because things did not go well, yet I still considered those books great. I roll my eyes at syrupy movies, where things conclude with "they lived happily ever after." But video games are an interactive medium, where you actually have to invest time and effort to move the story along. So it is important to have appropriate rewards built into the game. 

 

I think DA 2 was an excellent example of a game that presents few rewards for playing. No matter your skill within the game, no matter how good your strategy, you as the player will not make even one dent in the story. Everything turns to shite, no matter what. Aaanyway... I shouldn't get started on this

[The Baconer]

That's what Sten said in Origins, yes.

 

In Inquisition, Iron Bull says that the Qunari wouldn't use the word "Alliance" unless they meant it. My Inquisitor has never met Sten. He knows Bull, and trusts Bull.

 

The Inquisitor also knows Hawke and Varric, who have had firsthand experience with the Qunari. Varric in particular has met Sten, who also just happens to be the current Arishok.

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

So has Bull i recall.. he hasnt met Tallis though.

[Former_Fiend]

The Inquisitor also knows Hawke and Varric, who have had firsthand experience with the Qunari. Varric in particular has met Sten, who also just happens to be the current Arishok.

 

Neither of them care to weigh in on the situation.

[gothicshark]

That's what Sten said in Origins, yes.
 
In Inquisition, Iron Bull says that the Qunari wouldn't use the word "Alliance" unless they meant it. My Inquisitor has never met Sten. He knows Bull, and trusts Bull.
 
Besides, what you say remains true only so long as there is no dialogue between the two sides. So long as it is thought of in terms of "us" and "them", it will only ever be "us" and "them". 
 
I can't say for certain that an alliance with the qunari will be beneficial in the long run. But I am certain that alienating them will only insure war.

On the playthough were I did this quest I was playing my vashoth inquisitor, which means he totally understood what an alliance with the Qun would mean in the long term. The choice for him was An Excellent warrior and squad of Mercenaries, or the hope that the Qunari wouldn't try and invade right after we defeat the Elder One. At this point My Inquisitor trusted Bull, not the Qunari.

[Former_Fiend]

On the playthough were I did this quest I was playing my vashoth inquisitor, which means he totally understood what an alliance with the Qun would mean in the long term. The choice for him was An Excellent warrior and squad of Mercenaries, or the hope that the Qunari wouldn't try and invade right after we defeat the Elder One. At this point My Inquisitor trusted Bull, not the Qunari.

 

I was also playing as a vashoth Inquisitor; he had never lived under the Qun and Bull taught him more about it than his parents ever did.

[Raikas]

That's what Sten said in Origins, yes.

In Inquisition, Iron Bull says that the Qunari wouldn't use the word "Alliance" unless they meant it. My Inquisitor has never met Sten. He knows Bull, and trusts Bull.

Besides, what you say remains true only so long as there is no dialogue between the two sides. So long as it is thought of in terms of "us" and "them", it will only ever be "us" and "them"..

That makes sense for certain inquisitors, but I think the Vashoth Inquisitor (at least one who has been using the "My parents taught me"/"tell the truth" dialogue options) would plausibly have an impression closer to the one that we get from Sten, and know that the Qun sees all of them as nothing (and if you sided with the mages, that they would kill a large portion of your allies without question). I think thats a very reasonable in-game reason for the inquisitor to not put a huge value on that alliance (that's certainly where my decision came from)

And even for non-Vashoth inquisitors - yes, Bull says the Qunari must mean it right before this quest is given, but in earlier dialogues he comments on the potential fates of the other companions under the Qun, and aside from Cullen and Cassandra, no one is coming out of that intact. Depending on what we assume those characters prior experiences with (or prejudices towards) Qunari might be, I can see how they might be wary as well.

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

You know that about 5 seconds bfore the boat turns up you get told Bull is literaly a liar.

he could be being forced to lie to you.

[The Baconer]

Neither of them care to weigh in on the situation.

 

Varric does indirectly through banter. Beyond that, I would assume my Inquisitor would consult people beyond Bull (who is a spy, after all), and my Hawke would strongly advise against trusting the Qunari. Then there's also the issue of both my Inquisitor and my Hawke being mages.

[Iadro]

 

That's what Sten said in Origins, yes.

 

In Inquisition, Iron Bull says that the Qunari wouldn't use the word "Alliance" unless they meant it. My Inquisitor has never met Sten. He knows Bull, and trusts Bull.

 

Besides, what you say remains true only so long as there is no dialogue between the two sides. So long as it is thought of in terms of "us" and "them", it will only ever be "us" and "them". 

 

I can't say for certain that an alliance with the qunari will be beneficial in the long run. But I am certain that alienating them will only insure war.

 

It's your choice to trust IB, not saying you are wrong to do so. But how I look at the situation is this:

 

Sten is a soldier. IB is a spy. Thanks to the ridiculous Qunari reduction of life to rigid roles, we know they were trained to be nothing else.

 

What is the one thing you'd know a spy to better at than a soldier?

 

I don't trust Bull. I don't trust anything that comes out of his mouth, from the very moment he admitted he was part of the Ben-Hassrath. My Trevelyan remembers when the Arishok, maddened by people he could not control, rampaged through the streets of Kirkwall and killed hundreds in his rampage. The Qunari social system literally forces all citizens into roles, into cogs of a great machine poised to conquer the rest of Thedas. Negotiations? What makes me, or my Inquisitor think that he is any more able to get anything out of the Qunari than the original drafters of the first treaty with Seheron? 

 

EDIT: Spelling.

[KelaSaar]

I saved the Chargers and actually felt really bad for letting the qunari die.  Then I read Bull's conversation about what would happen if the qunari took over Thedas, and I didn't feel quite so bad anymore.

[Former_Fiend]

That makes sense for certain inquisitors, but I think the Vashoth Inquisitor (particularly one who has been using the "My parents taught me"/"tell the truth" dialogue options) would plausibly have an impression closer to the one that we get from Sten, and know that the Qun sees all of them as nothing (and if you sided with the mages, that they would kill a large portion of your allies without question). I think thats a very reasonable in-game reason for the inquisitor to not put a huge value on that alliance (that's certainly where my decision came from).

And even for non-Vashoth inquisitors - yes, Bull says the Qunari must mean it right before this quest is given, but in earlier dialogues he comments on the potential fates of the other companions under the Qun, and aside from Cullen and Cassandra, no one is coming out of that intact. Depending on what we assume those characters prior experiences with (or prejudices towards) Qunari might be, I can see how they might be wary as well.

 

One thing Bull and Tallis make clear; if you're just getting the information from the Antaam, you're not getting the full picture that is the Qun.

 

Bull also makes it clear that as much as people view the qun as prohibiting independent thought, even the qunari disagree with each other. Sten's views and the previous Arishok's views do not necessarily represent the views of the qunari people as a whole, even if they are a pretty good indicator of the views of the Antaam.

[Master Race]

I at first picked the Qunari alliance but Bioware droppd the ball. Should have gave a cool qunari spy or two to hang out with bull in tavern instead of him there all alone. Now i save the chargers just because he seems happier in the short term and i doubt i'll ever have to deal with him in the long term when he has an identity crisis (unless he shows up in another game)

[RobRam10]

People actually made the alliance with those beasts. Disgusting.

[Former_Fiend]

Varric does indirectly through banter. Beyond that, I would assume my Inquisitor would consult people beyond Bull (who is a spy, after all), and my Hawke would strongly advise against trusting the Qunari. Then there's also the issue of both my Inquisitor and my Hawke being mages.

 

My Hawke wouldn't advise so strongly. She'd advise caution and honesty, but wouldn't rule out the possibility of an alliance all together.

 

And all of my protagonists are warriors; while I'm not going to say that a mage's distrust for the qun isn't entirely warranted, it isn't something my characters inherently share.

[Laurelinde]

Like most people I was frustrated by this quest (why can't I go help the Chargers?  I slay dragons and whatnot!) but I opted to save the Chargers.  My Quiz wasn't super-convinced by the idea of a Qunari alliance to begin with, since common enemy or no, they still have spies all over the place and still constitute something of a 'threat' to the rest of Thedas.  

 

It also seemed clear, playing the scene through, that my Inquisitor would not have been aware that the dreadnought would explode rather than sinking, meaning there would be no way to save even some of the people onboard.

 

The last straw was the Qunari representative being rude to my BFF Dorian.  Quizzy was not down with that.

[Valerius]

For what it's worth, I absolutely understand why people would refuse to sacrifice the Chargers. I'm not entirely unsympathetic to that.

 

For me, personally, though. Every time I make a choice at the war table I'm sending forces into situations that could well result in their deaths. I do it because it needs to be done. 

 

Some people aren't able to live with sacrificing the Chargers because they don't want the deaths of  people they know and like on their conscience. I sacrifice the chargers because my conscience wouldn't be able to take knowing that I treated the Chargers any differently than the thousands of soldiers camped outside Skyhold that I send on life threatening missions every day.  

/nods in agreement, You sir, are a true leader