170 réponses à ce sujet

[Frenrihr]

So silly you never played Knight Enchanter have you i can solo dragons

 

I think now i understand why Bioware Dumbed down the series with each release, just look at its fans.

[Scoobydooby]

^^ don't worry, I got it

 

 

I think now i understand why Bioware Dumbed down the series with each release, just look at its fans.

 

 

lol unfortunately, I totally know what you mean. Not to try to offend anyone here, but honestly.. this game is totally dumbed down, like so many other games made these days. 

 

People on these forums that like the game will try to defend it in all kinds of ways, but those of us who have been PC gamers for many years can see the writing on the walls and aren't just going to turn a blind eye to it because the game is still good. 

 

Yes, this is a good game, but there is simply no debating that some of the choices made, were made with console and more casual gamers in mind.. simple as that. Its made more accessible for the fairweather players out there, at the expense of the more hardcore advanced players out there. 

 

Id like to see someone try to make a claim against this, what I would consider to be, fact. 

[CronoDragoon]

Id like to see someone try to make a claim against this, what I would consider to be, fact. 

 

Make a claim against what? There are no supporting arguments in your post, only generalizations.

[Sondermann]

Make a claim against what? There are no supporting arguments in your post, only generalizations.

You obviously haven't been a PC gamer for years because that would make you more smart and make you figure stuff out and make you a hardcore advanced player that nevertheless cannot build a decent mage and sorry, I guess I'm just too dumb as well

[Scoobydooby]

Make a claim against what? There are no supporting arguments in your post, only generalizations.

 

Seems most people, especially those who played Origins, are very aware of how the game is "consolified".. no supporting arguments needed in this case. 

[Lennard Testarossa]

Mages aren't garbage, they're pretty damn useful. You are right that they don't do much damage compared to rogues, though.

[CronoDragoon]

Seems most people, especially those who played Origins, are very aware of how the game is "consolified".. no supporting arguments needed in this case. 

 

How convenient.

[In Exile]

True, but the OP's assessment and dismissal of Knight Enchanter as not a "proper" mage is based upon his erroneous belief that Knight Enchanter can only deal damage as a tank (aka get in enemy's face and spam Spirit Blade ad infinitum, pausing only to cast barrier) and not a more "traditional" mage. I was simply trying to show him how taking certain actives / passives (in Spirit and Inferno, preferably boosted by specific passives in Knight Enchanter) can allow Knight Enchanter to deal damage in what he would consider a more "proper" mage role. Somehow I doubt he will take my advice, but that is his loss. FYI, I play KE but don't spam Spirit Blade (ad infinitum) because that gets real old real fast...

IMO the right combination of inferno, fade step, plus sprit and KE talents can make for a killer damage mage.

[Scoobydooby]

How convenient.

 

See? Now you're getting it.. Bioware has made the game much more convenient for fairweather gamers. I knew you'd figure it out. 

[dreamgazer]

My electricity-specced rift mage begs to differ about the damage.

I could watch enemies struggle in a Static Cage with fiery panic and spirit fists all day long.

[DarthLinebacker]

Anyone who thinks Necro is a bad spec doesn't know how to use Walking Bomb, or understand just how amazing Power of the Dead or Death Siphon are. So you only have eight skill slots. Cry me a freaking river. I can eliminate groups of enemies regardless of spec with Mages and still support the team with Barrier. If you can't figure out how to stand back and do some seroious AOE DPS the problem isn't the game, it's you.

[CronoDragoon]

See? Now you're getting it.. Bioware has made the game much more convenient for fairweather gamers. I knew you'd figure it out. 

 

I guess here is where I claim that "PC gamers" need to suck it up and learn the mechanics of this game and how to make a proper build, instead of pining for that dumbed-down game where you could use all your abilities in the same build and spam healing magic and sustained buffs to win. If Inquisition is a "hold right trigger to win" game, then Origins was a "do nothing and still win" game. Or have we forgotten how Arcane Warrior made combat a joke?

 

Am I still getting it?

[Lebanese Dude]

 

Am I still getting it?

 

Yep.

 

DAO is actually the least "complex" game in terms of potential builds. Abilities were always selected sequentially. Mages had a lot more variation, but one might argue that they were rather broken.

 

Not only that, but warriors completely overshadowed rogues rendering the latter a rather obsolete class. One of the top downloaded mods was to allow you to break open chests. That's how useless rogues were. One needed to download Combat Tweaks to make them competitive.

 

DA2 gave you much more versatility in fighter builds, as well as increasing warrior/rogue class power by taking them away from mages. Mages themselves still had a lot of potential builds, but were no longer the I-WIN like they were in DAO. Specializations across the board were made more powerful and much more significant to the builds. 

 

DAI took it even further by loosening the ability web and allowing abilities to be chosen with only one pre-requisite at most. This allows for more even more combat variations, albeit with more passives than before. However these passives can be quite significant, some even completely altering your approach to combat via terrain, stances, or ability synergy.

 

I really want to know if people actually paid attention to DAO. t was a great game, but hardly a paragon of game design.

 

It seems a lot of people are willfully blind to its faults. I only wonder why they refuse to do so for DAI and actually enjoy the game as they did with DAO.

[Crackseed]

Pretty much what Lebanese/Crono posted - while I still very much appreciate DAO, holding it as a testament to "solid design for mages" is a bit silly. You either were an Arcane Warrior cheesing the game or you went one of several mage specs that was largely about blood magic or Storm of the Century.

 

Warriors and Rogues were so far behind the mage class it might as well have been Dragon Age: Mage Origins >.>

 

This was exacerbated more by the at times, tediously slow combat. I do love DAO - I miss the sheer simplicity of the BG-style tac cam. I do miss some of the combat choices, but by far DA2 and DAI brought the combat forward, not backwards except with regards to the tactical camera and in the case of DAI, the simplification of the tactics system.

 

Mages in this game are, IMO, the best they've ever been even with the irksome 8 skill slot limit taken into account.

[Frenrihr]

My electricity-specced rift mage begs to differ about the damage.

I could watch enemies struggle in a Static Cage with fiery panic and spirit fists all day long.

Until you fight the electric dragon or any electric resistance enemy.

[In Exile]

Until you fight the electric dragon or any electric resistance enemy.

If only there was some respec option...

[Lebanese Dude]

Until you fight the electric dragon or any electric resistance enemy.

 

Respec options are readily available. 

A significant portion of DAI's combat system relies on preparation and premeditation.

[dreamgazer]

Until you fight the electric dragon or any electric resistance enemy.

That's when I break out the frost spells and fire staff.

[Lebanese Dude]

Broken?, wtf are you smoking, and when people will understand that single player games dont need balance, i guess with all the MMO stuff in this game people believe it is an MMO haha.

This goes to show how little you know of game design. Game difficulty is an important metric in game design, both towards the player and towards the enemy.

 

Do you know Kingdom of Amalur? It got so ridiculously easy even on the hardest difficulty no matter how far you gimped your character.

This was caused by a severe underestimation on the developer's part on the progression curve of the leveling experience and crafting.

It is one of the major faults of an otherwise beautifully crafted game. It is arguably one of the main reasons it never got the credit it deserved.

 

This only goes to show how important it is to keep the player invested in developing their character. Becoming overpowered quickly loses its fun  can easily turn the experience into a drag. Obviously some people enjoy feeling OP at the get-go, but that's what difficulty levels are for. Most actually seek an appropriate challenge.

 

Games are often designed to get easier as you advance in levels in order to make you feel that you progressed enough.

Achieving "OP-status" too early can jeopardize the entire experience, ESPECIALLY in narrative RPGs that hold you captive to the story.

 

It's also obviously important towards the player.

Is it fun if you get one-shot by an enemy consistently with no way to advance or catch up in power?

Some games are designed around challenging the player in such a way, but this is often their entire appeal (See: Dark Souls)

 

I'm not going to elaborate given your hostile nature rendering any discussion pointless, but your insistence that difficulty and balance is "only for MMOs" is ignorant at best.

[Scoobydooby]

I guess here is where I claim that "PC gamers" need to suck it up and learn the mechanics of this game and how to make a proper build, instead of pining for that dumbed-down game where you could use all your abilities in the same build and spam healing magic and sustained buffs to win. If Inquisition is a "hold right trigger to win" game, then Origins was a "do nothing and still win" game. Or have we forgotten how Arcane Warrior made combat a joke?

 

Am I still getting it?

 

Well at least now you're saying more than 2-3 words, so that's an improvement. PC Gamers are indeed forced to suck it up on account of Bioware getting lazy and only optimizing the game for one platform, console. 

 

I can't say I agree that Origins was a "do nothing and still win" game.. I mean, I don't even think you really even believe that. 

 

I also wouldn't say that DAI is a "hold trigger" to win game, but tactically the game has been widdled down to further appeal to the console crowd at the expense of the PC crowd, rather than trying to please both sides. 

 

My builds do just fine, I can't relate to the OP on that account, but the game is still less enjoyable on account of the many flaws it has. 

 

Its a month in and a simple Walk/Run toggle still doesn't exist.. may not be a big deal, but its all in the little things. This is where this game has gone awry. 

 

In case its not clear, I'm speaking above just the Mage talk in the thread, so in a way, I am derailing.. But, I've said my piece, so rather than further derail, I will let you all continue on. 

[Paul E Dangerously]

Please stop blaming "console limitations" for developer choices. DAO, DAA, and DA2 worked just fine on consoles, with the extra skills being allocated on the radial menu. It's not a hardware thing or a controller thing, it's a deliberate move.

[Poisd2Strike]

Try taking Immolate (and its upgrade Wildfire), Pyromancer, Chaotic Focus, Clean Burn, and Fire Mine (and its upgrade Searing Glyph) from Inferno.  Take Barrier and at least Strength of Spirits (to increase barrier) from Spirit.  Cast Immolate or, better yet, Fire Mine and then tell me KE cannot deal damage. 

 

 

I dont want to play any of that ****, i want to play a mage that can deal damage i respeced my character a lot of times and still cant manage to get anything that does good damage, there is always some over powered resistance or the stupid mana limitations (will power changes) or better yet, lack of skill buttons.

 

You can stop using your stupid bold please now you look like you are full of yourself.

 

If you take the actives and passives I recommended, from the Spirit tree and Inferno tree, your Mage will be able to deal damage as a Mage.  This is true even if you have no Specialization.  The Spirit tree and Inferno tree are both Specialization neutral.  The passives I recommended, in Knight Enchanter, only enhance barrier.  Items (such as rings) can boost abilities like Immolate damage by at least +30%.  Your character can wear 2 rings, potentially boosting two different abilities.  If you cannot spec your Mage to do good damage, that is a failure on your part and not the game's.  Perhaps a "Hello Kitty" game would be more your speed.  You have done nothing but insult everyone who has tried to give you advice.

 

I will stop using my "stupid bold" when you stop acting like an entitled, petulant, brat.

[aaarcher86]

Please stop blaming "console limitations" for developer choices. DAO, DAA, and DA2 worked just fine on consoles, with the extra skills being allocated on the radial menu. It's not a hardware thing or a controller thing, it's a deliberate move.

But it's so much easier and convenient to do...