158 réponses à ce sujet

[SkyKing]

DA4 without a party?  It's already done and will be released in 2015!   It's called DA4: The Witch Hunt

[Little Princess Peach]

no just no I enjoy having my party with me instead of being on my own a la skyrim

[Lintton]

Um, no. I think a better next step would be a party full of customized characters. Have a story based on the actions of a group, rather than hinging on the sole savior again and again.

And with better banter than the terrible multiplayer louts.

[Lianaar]

Your opinion is valid, it just doesn't carry enough weight to prevent the creation of a consensus among the fanbase. Bioware aren't concerned with what every single individual fan thinks (you, me or anybody else); they're concerned with what the consensus is. They already know what that consensus is, but they have to weigh it against what the rest of the market (potential customers) think too.

In the broadest possible terms, there's a pretty clear distinction between what these two groups of people want. The established Bioware fanbase may bicker about every single detail, but it is self evident that they enjoy Bioware games and would like them to continue making them. It is also self evident that the much larger group which doesn't buy them (but may well have bought Skyrim) would like them to make something more to their taste.

Bioware has the almost impossible task of trying to satisfy both of these groups, or they have to choose one over the other, or they have to gradually bring them closer together (which is what they've been trying to do since at least Mass Effect 2). They've been weaning the established fanbase on to action combat and multiplayer, while at the same time trying to show the wider audience that narrative and some tactical elements can be fun. Judging by the relatively stagnant sales of their games, I'd say this approach has had limited success so far.

There is no concensus. There is a forum, which is totally not representative, for usually people obsessed with the game, franchise or people who are upset with the game come here. This is by no means any way representative of what people want. Most people don't come to forum at all, they don't voice their concern, and their hopes as well as their wish for alteration and its direction. These people are still fanbase, they are just not vocal.

 

The forum is the vocal fanbase. But listening to the vocal minority which might or might not show the same ideas as the large silent majority who bought or returned or refused to buy the game is not the smartest thing to do.

Now add the fact that even on this forum we can not agree on simple things such as: was the combat good or bad, wich characters were the best, which romances were enjoyable, were the quests boring or fun. Those are rather simple questions, and yet, if you read the forums you'll find tonnes of responses in favor of everything and its opposite.

As for the sales, there are quite a few threads about it too, but so far I only saw a single line that seemed to be fact, and that was Jarrett Lee stating in the forum, that the game is selling over expectations. Everything else I read here in the forum (granted, I didn't read every single line written) were not facts, but presumptions on other forum polls and sale charts that didn't publish their methods of data gathering, so they are by no means source of economic decisions. Presuming Jarrett Lee doesn't flat out lie to our face on the forum and I don't really see why he would do so, the game is selling well.

[brzoz]

OP, you're such a troll!

 

but yeah, it looks like the next logical step. go BW!

[MacroN0va]

I love Bioware and I applaud them for constantly trying to innovate on the RPG party combat experience. Of course, that also means I tell them loudly and unambiguously when they get it wrong. If they make another game with party combat, I really hope they make it more tactical.

[Sidney]

I love Bioware and I applaud them for constantly trying to innovate on the RPG party combat experience. Of course, that also means I tell them loudly and unambiguously when they get it wrong. If they make another game with party combat, I really hope they make it more tactical.

They haven't made a decent tactical combat since, well they never have. In terms of raw difficulty this game is as difficult as it gets. The "tactical" problems here are harder to solve than in any other games. Positioning matters a lot more in DAI than in other games. Frankly, DA2's tactical problems were stupid but much harder than DAOs. DAO for all the love it gets from people who think they are tactical was brain dead. There were a lot of options none of which ever mattered because those were fights you literally couldn't lose unless you tried and frankly in a lot of them I tried to see if it could happen and as long as you fought back you would win. Standing about doing nothing was the only way to lose.

I'm not sure in terms of encounter design which way I preferred -- 3000 hit points in 10 enemies a la DAO or 3000 hit points in 3 enemies per DAI. Trash mobs or HP piñatas. None of these foes are actually smart or react properly to the threat you present.

[swiftwings88]

I agree with everyone here that getting rid of a party mechanic would be stupid, but three more points.

 

1. Can we knock off the DA4 talk.  Holy crap guys, DA:I just just released.  I'll be playing the stuffing out of this game for the next year at least and thats not including content patches and DLC.

 

2. Stop comparing things to Dark Souls.  Look I own Dark Souls.  Heck I beat Dark Souls (though I seriously considered giving up after dying to Ornstein and Smough the millionth effing time).  I'm not in love with the game, I missed that drug.  Combat is okay, the weapon system is boring and the story is practically non-existent because there isn't any exposition to speak of for 99% of the game.  Oh, and don't give me the immersive story telling BS.  Half-life does immersive story telling.  There is 0 character motivation in Dark Souls.  I get no impression that anything I do has any impact on anything.  The game's sole claim to fame is being difficult.  Dark Souls is the Ghost Pepper Hot Sauce of gaming.  Beating it or liking it or being good at it is a mark of honor (I guess) for some people.  If you love it, great.  But very few games are trying to be Dark Souls, nor should they. 

 

3. Stop comparing DAI to Skyrim.  Yes it's obvious DAI took a lot of cues from the Skyrim mold.  That said, Skyrim combat is nothing like Inquisition combat and it isn't trying to be.

[Draining Dragon]

This must be a troll... right? Riiiiiiight?

[MacroN0va]

They haven't made a decent tactical combat since, well they never have. In terms of raw difficulty this game is as difficult as it gets. The "tactical" problems here are harder to solve than in any other games. Positioning matters a lot more in DAI than in other games. Frankly, DA2's tactical problems were stupid but much harder than DAOs. DAO for all the love it gets from people who think they are tactical was brain dead. There were a lot of options none of which ever mattered because those were fights you literally couldn't lose unless you tried and frankly in a lot of them I tried to see if it could happen and as long as you fought back you would win. Standing about doing nothing was the only way to lose.

I'm not sure in terms of encounter design which way I preferred -- 3000 hit points in 10 enemies a la DAO or 3000 hit points in 3 enemies per DAI. Trash mobs or HP piñatas. None of these foes are actually smart or react properly to the threat you present.

 

Go do the bandits chantry board quest in Lothering on Nightmare without pausing and get back to me. Don't cheese it by shooting one guy at a time from max range. 

[Shelled]

lol is this a joke post op? 

The party wouldn't be as bad as it is right now if they used the dragon age origins formula. They wanted us to play this game like DA:2 but with even less control of the a.i. It's dumb but its probably heading in the op's direction anyway.

Whatever. This is the last biowfail game that I buy. Not going anywhere NEAR ME4 after this crappy game. Worst tactical camera of all time. Duno how you get something THAT BAD when origins did it so well. Meh whatever, bioware should go develop mobile games after this.

game of the year my ass. That title wasn't paid for at all. Riiiiight.

[Rhidor]

Then they can make the game a FPS, except with blades.

You can't be serious. That would just be horrible and would remove the entire classic RPG element. You can't change a game's formula that drastically just because certain mechanics worked in other game of a different genre.

[Rhidor]

lol is this a joke post op? 

The party wouldn't be as bad as it is right now if they used the dragon age origins formula. They wanted us to play this game like DA:2 but with even less control of the a.i. It's dumb but its probably heading in the op's direction anyway.

Whatever. This is the last biowfail game that I buy. Not going anywhere NEAR ME4 after this crappy game. Worst tactical camera of all time. Duno how you get something THAT BAD when origins did it so well. Meh whatever, bioware should go develop mobile games after this.

game of the year my ass. That title wasn't paid for at all. Riiiiight.

 

Soo... the game and every game to follow is bad because the tactical camera wasn't working for you?

 

I sense a hater.

[Lukas Trevelyan]

Or they could listen to the feedback they got from this go round, and make tactical combat on PC that is both usable and challenging/enjoyable?

 

You make it sound so easy. 

[DreamwareStudio]

Here's an idea. Maybe people who wish to avoid micromanaging party members should not play games in which there is a party to control...

[Lee T]

Or they could listen to the feedback they got from this go round, and make tactical combat on PC that is both usable and challenging/enjoyable?

I woulndt mind that on a console too...

[Ascendra]

NO.
That would destroy the idea on which DA games are based. There is no other developer that does what Bioware does at this level and so well (im not counting Kickstarters). Its what their games are known for - party based combat - removing it will be like removing part of the company's successful formula, as well as depriving fans of the only quality AAA party-based prg. Besides the combat was already dumbed down, no need to dumb it further.

And ME combat is frankly crap, they should have kept the original idea - tactical camera and companion control. But thats my opinion.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Under no circumstances should we be forced ti engane in action combat.

I use the Tac Cam for every encounter in DAI, and I enjoy it sufficiently that it doesn't detract from the game (unlike the action combat of The Witcher, which rendered the game unplayable). It isn't as enjoyable as DAO's combat, but it is miles better than DA2's.

Now, to the OP's point, I wouldn't object to losing the party. I really enjoy NWN's combat, and that is effectively single-character, but real-time action combat is a complete non-starter.

I paused to aim in ME. Nearly every shot. I loathe real-time action combat. I will not play it. I modded FO3 and NV so I could use VATS for every attack. I can only tolerate Skyrim because the game is so heavily moddable that it can be played basically however the player wants.

No party would be interesting.

Action combat would be unforgivable.

[KaiserShep]

Fuckkkk nooooooooooooo.

[metatheurgist]

Here's an idea. Maybe people who wish to avoid micromanaging party members should not play games in which there is a party to control...

Ridiculous, next you'll be asking for RPGs with RPG mechanics!

[errantknight]

No, sorry, that would make me very unhappy. IMO, what's needed is to bring back the full tactics, isometric view, and to rework mage combat entirely. I liked DA:O mages, but if they don't want to do that, they need to do something less ludicrous. Personally, I think the combat is still too fast, overall. There are some nice animations in the warrior combat, but you can't even tell unless it happens to be when you pause, they go by so fast. Warrior is almost there, just needs some tweaks. Archery...it's worse than mages. Makes no sense whatsoever. I think archery was better as an offhand weapon for everyone than a class. Also, weapon swapping please.

[Do I really Need One]

I'm playing completely tactical with AI shut off. Yeah, the camera is wonky, but I've learned to work with it. Imagine it's a battlefield camera drone you're flying around, issuing orders.

People just aren't trying hard enough. Removing the party removes the tactical. No thanks.

[flip912]

No!! that's why I play this series.. because of the party system.

 

[Chardonney]

No thank you. I love the party system and don't want to see it dropped.

[eyezonlyii]

Under no circumstances should we be forced ti engane in action combat.
I use the Tac Cam for every encounter in DAI, and I enjoy it sufficiently that it doesn't detract from the game (unlike the action combat of The Witcher, which rendered the game unplayable). It isn't as enjoyable as DAO's combat, but it is miles better than DA2's.
Now, to the OP's point, I wouldn't object to losing the party. I really enjoy NWN's combat, and that is effectively single-character, but real-time action combat is a complete non-starter.
I paused to aim in ME. Nearly every shot. I loathe real-time action combat. I will not play it. I modded FO3 and NV so I could use VATS for every attack. I can only tolerate Skyrim because the game is so heavily moddable that it can be played basically however the player wants.
No party would be interesting.
Action combat would be unforgivable.

Interestingly enough, I'm almost the complete opposite. I love more action oriented games, and would hotel at the loss of a party. I agree with everyone saying to look at dragon's dogma instead of skyrim for party combat purposes. The parks were the best part of that game. Imagine having a party that learned how to deal with enemies, do you never had to issue an order because they already knew the best way to handle it. It's amazing, and I recommend those that haven't played it, please do.