102 réponses à ce sujet

[Warden Majere]

Even without the extreme conditions in Kirkwall, I believe that it still would have ended badly. As DarkKnight said, they were the worst possible partners for each other. To try and prove otherwise would be to tread in the "if" territory. Though, you do have some fair points. The conditions in Kirkwall certainly did not help Anders'/Justice's situation.

[Willowhugger]

Even without the extreme conditions in Kirkwall, I believe that it still would have ended badly. As DarkKnight said, they were the worst possible partners for each other. To try and prove otherwise would be to tread in the "if" territory. Though, you do have some fair points. The conditions in Kirkwall certainly did not help Anders'/Justice's situation.

 

I think Anders would have been fine as long as he was in the loving environment of Vigil's Keep.

 

The Wardens, however, took away his support network.

And his cat.

Then he was banished from the Wardens.

 

Then Karl happened.

And then the Tranquil Solution.

 

Yeah.

I think if Anders hadn't been horribly provoked, he would have just remained like in Act I. A kind of messianic street-preacher/healer/Mage Without Borders who is self-righteous and Lawful Good due to Justice's influence albeit a bit obsessive.

A lot of stuff had to happen to wear him down.

[Warden Majere]

Wynne is a special case because the particular Faith spirit that possessed her was her 'Fade guardian' of sorts since she was a little girl. Anders was a nonchalant scampish mage that bottled his anger at the Circle and Templars instead of dealing with it. Then he bonds with a traumatically displaced Justice spirit. It was like combining vinegar and baking soda. That relationship was doomed from the start.

It is very likely that the spirit had a good reason for attaching itself to Wynne in such a way. It likely sensed her faith at a young age, and was drawn to it. As I said earlier, possession would likely have far more positive results if mages took the time to research, and find a spirit that is compatible with the host. Wynne, and her spirit of Faith, are a good example of this.

[Willowhugger]

Doesn't matter. If Anders was as cool inside as we was outside and Justice bonded with him normally, through the Fade, then I'd be inclined to agree with you. The taint also factors. So in retrospect bonding with Justice was probably the most most irresponsible thing Anders could have done.

 

There's no justifying. It's not like he knew Justice from before and they would have debates on his virtue while he was dreaming. 

 

It was a mistake.

We can all agree with that.

But I also think he was trying to save his friend.

[raging_monkey]

It is very likely that the spirit had a good reason for attaching itself to Wynne in such a way. It likely sensed her faith at a young age, and was drawn to it. As I said earlier, possession would likely have far more positive results if mages took the time to research, and find a spirit that is compatible with the host. Wynne, and her spirit of Faith, are a good example of this.

agreed. While i believe their are ethics needed but not by religious group

[raging_monkey]

Rivain proves that 'possession' (I don't like this word because the relationship is supposed to be symbiotic) doesn't have to always carry a negative connotation.

ive always called them symbiotes (for the "joined")

[Warden Majere]

It was a mistake.
We can all agree with that.

But I also think he was trying to save his friend.

I agree with you, his intentions were indeed pure. Yet, he tells you in Act I that he already had to much rage. Anders suppressed the anger and hostility that held towards Templar into a little, unhealthy, emotional bottle. After he became One with Justice, those suppressed emotions came pouring out. Combine this with a spirit that is still unfamiliar with how the world of The day works. This is what turned Justice into Vengeance.

I am on saying that the partnership was "irresponsible", but I do believe that it was doomed from the start. No amount of kittens, or friendly Wardens can change what a spirit represents, as that is its entire being.

[Warden Majere]

Rivain proves that 'possession' (I don't like this word because the relationship is supposed to be symbiotic) doesn't have to always carry a negative connotation.

I hope that we spend some time there in the next game. I am eager to spend some time with these topics. With the a newly formed College of Enchanter, hopefully controversial subjects like these will get more attention.

Also, I love your profile pic ;-)

[Warden Majere]

So on another note, does anyone know the exact means by which Avernus extended his life. I know that he used Blood Magic, and the Taint. Yet I have no idea beyond that.

[raging_monkey]

So on another note, does anyone know the exact means by which Avernus extended his life. I know that he used Blood Magic, and the Taint. Yet I have no idea beyond that.

it involved electricity as a catalyst. Maybe certain levels of volts can resucitate cells

[Warden Majere]

That is very possible. Yet, I wonder what that has to do with the Taint.

[raging_monkey]

Maybe the taint is just a "amp" for certain magicks but like BM it has its own school of spells usable only to tge spawn and to a lesser extent wardens

[Warden Majere]

Well, consider this. Darkspawn, could presumably live forever. The Taint sustains them. What if Avernus found a way, through Blood Magic, to imitate this effect. The Taint would stop spreading through his body, and preserve it in the process.

[raging_monkey]

In theory i agree but he claims the taint was killing him still best he could do is slow it

[Warden Majere]

Actually, the Taint doesn't actually kill Grey Wardens. We learn in The Calling that they become something that is very similar to a Darkspawn. They retain their consciousness, but they are completely taken by the Taint. Utha, from Awakening, is one of the Grey Wardens that this happened to. In order to prevent Wardens from ever reaching this point, they created the Calling.

After taking this into account, it opens many new possibilities in the way of expanding one's life. The Grey Wardens could survive for centuries at a time, and be more efficient at using their abilities granted by the Taint, as they become more Darkspawn than man.

[raging_monkey]

Actually, the Taint doesn't actually kill Grey Wardens. We learn in The Calling that they become something that is very similar to a Darkspawn. They retain their consciousness, but they are completely taken by the Taint. Utha, from Awakening, is one of the Grey Wardens that this happened to. In order to prevent Wardens from ever reaching this point, they created the Calling.
After taking this into account, it opens many new possibilities in the way of expanding one's life. The Grey Wardens could survive for centuries at a time, and be more efficient at using their abilities granted by the Taint, as they become more Darkspawn than man.

true but in a sense they are a detriment to the order at that point.

[Warden Majere]

True enough. Yet, if Avernus managed to subdue the Taint, is there any reason that the rest of the Order can't do the same? If the Wardens managed to extend their lives by a few centuries, it would bolster their numbers significantly. It would also provide the interesting opportunity to spend decades at a time to create, and master new magics. Just look at what Avernus managed to do with his time.

[raging_monkey]

I don't think a mass blood magic ritual would go over well with the rest of Thedas after the events of DA:I. The Wardens would be under enough scrutiny as is.

and DAI shows how willing they are with shady implications

[Sports72Xtrm]

There were other ways to do that. And as I recall Justice never wanted in the real world in the first place. Anders should have helped him find his way back or studied spirits in depth before taking some risky ass plunge.

Unfortunately it's not the simple as time is a factor. Spirits who are expelled from the fade and don't choose to cross over out of their own free will become mad and thus become demons. So if his host in Kristoff wasn't going to support him anymore the only choices is to watch Justice leave his body and become crazy and thus a demon or let it possess him.

[Warden Majere]

I don't think a mass blood magic ritual would go over well with the rest of Thedas after the events of DA:I. The Wardens would be under enough scrutiny as is.

You have a fair point, but we know that they are willing to give the rest of society the finger, and do what they need to. There are ways that they could get away with it without alerting the outside world.