452 réponses à ce sujet

[Octarin]

Because they hate you and want to annoy you. They're ignoring you on purpose. Not the populace in general. You, specifically.

 

Come on, guys. You can send feedback about a design choice without assuming distain or malicious intent. This is getting silly.

 

What are you on mate? Cause it sounds interesting. Did I say anything about how they are ignoring me personally on purpose and any other such emo crap? Did I? No. Then why do I get this lame answer back at me implying that I did? Get off the shrooms or whatever it is, and get real. And no, I'm not gonna mount a complain for something that minor. We got larger issues at hand that need immediate action, in regards to bugs, games freezing, corrupt savegames and many more. 

 

Bottom line: shrooms = bad!

[Grieving Natashina]

What?  Get off the... <sigh>

 

I'm going to make some fresh coffee.  Anyone want some?

[Octarin]

What?  Get off the... <sigh>

 

I'm going to make some fresh coffee.  Anyone want some?

 

Yeah please, double, too much dafuq in the air...

[Grieving Natashina]

It's okay to disagree, but can we please not accuse posters of being on psychedelics just because they have a different point of view?

 

_{Yule comes and goes.  The winter is fully upon us.  Christmas is in the air, whether folks like it or not.  And the BSN posters can't stop bickering in some really odd ways.}

[Octarin]

It's okay to disagree, but can we please not accuse posters of being on psychedelics just because they have a different point of view?

 

_{Yule comes and goes.  The winter is fully upon us.  Christmas is in the air, whether folks like it or not.  And the BSN can't stop bickering with each other in some really odd ways.}

 

Cause it's OK to make ONE post in a thread of 350 and then get insta-accused for paranoia. Right. Sorry, missed the memo that it's OK. My bad. 

 

Oh, and btw, I don't disagree with anybody. I just said my piece. I didn't argue. I didn't blame. I didn't bitchwhine. I did nothing. Mainly cause it's not such a big issue for me how my Inquisitor walks. Yeah, if they walked on all fours I'd take some exception, but they don't. So, since you're making the coffee care to explain why am *i* getting the backlash? 

[SpiritMuse]

Jesus Christ, now people are attacking the male gait animation. Guys and gals, that's pretty close to how I move, more smooth, but hey, I have high natural agility. I do *NOT* move in a "neutral", gender conscious way. It's kinesthetics, not politics, not ingrained social engineering. It is *painful* for me to try to sit or walk in what would be a "neutral" way. But apparently that's "gorilla animation" now. Thanks. Ladies are just like us fellas that way. I refer you to our resident runner's post a few posts back. Also, I doubt many complainers have ever actually studied movement or really, really paid attention to how you (or a lot of other women) move. No animation majors, kinesthesiologists, serious athletes among them, I bet. I'd caution you may not be aware of everything going on with your own personal locomotion. Most people aren't. Your politics may be dictating what your eyes are telling you.

"Neutral" movement is completely unnatural, because what might be neutral for you is cringeworthy in it's uncomfortability to me. Animation like that would just look even more awkward than the shared cutscene animation. DA:O's running animations weren't better. They were awkward and dated. They reminded me of those stiff animations you get in old blocky cg. There's no weight or balance, like they're in half gravity and bobbing off their feet with immobile spines and hips on a tire rod. It's unreal. The modern walk is just better, more advanced animation. Your character has a mostly predetermined body. They move according to what looks more natural for their body. And they have their own animation sets. No it's not perfect, but they're not mocapped. (They could be, I guess. But people would still cry 'unintentional sexism', because that's what a lot of people are taught to think, how to think.) They're not purely your avatar, certainly not physically.

As for a solution to the perception problem, sure they could have a slider. That'd mean a heck of a lot more animation work if you still want high quality presentation. It'd also still be a bit unrealistic and probably problematic for some because it wouldn't feasibly account for mood. Most of you have no idea how much involuntary body language is going on with your basic, general movement. They at least should have unique *non-gender neutral* cutscene animation, so we don't have that weird, awkward juxtaposition they still have now. That's a lot easier to do. They can afford those little details on a multi-million dollar game. It means more dev focus goes to that side of the presentation though, which means something else goes on the back burner a bit, but it's not unreasonable I think. Going to "neutral" animation everywhere because politics would just result in a crap presentation. It already hurts the games now where they try. I don't want anymore of that; I want less, because it's awkward and jarring and poor. ><

edit: Lilac's post, last page. Read it.
edit 2: spelling. I'm tired

It's easy to forget sometimes that just as there are women who naturally have this feminine walk there are also men who walk like that masculine walk and that they might feel insulted as well when you criticize the animation. I do apologize if you feel I've used that kind of language. (I am curious though what exactly makes it painful for a man to sit with his legs closer together than that almost 45 degree angle that the quizzy displays on the throne? It seems like it should be possible to bring them a bit closer together, but I'm not a man, I have no idea. O_o)

Here's the thing though - as far as I can tell the cutscene animation mostly looks pretty normal on human males, they don't really look like gorillas at all. But on pretty much everything else (all females at least, and elves of both genders) it looks ridiculously hunched over and gorilla-like. And that is he problem.

[Octarin]

It's easy to forget sometimes that just as there are women who naturally have this feminine walk there are also men who walk like that masculine walk and that they might feel insulted as well when you criticize the animation. I do apologize if you feel I've used that kind of language. (I am curious though, what exactly makes it painful for a man to sit with his legs closer together than that almost 45 degree angle that the quizzy displays on the throne? It seems like it should be possible to bring them a bit closer together, but I'm not a man, I have no idea. O_o)

Here's the thing though - as far as I can tell the cutscene animation mostly looks pretty normal on human males, they don't really look like gorillas at all. But on pretty much everything else (all females at least, and elves of both genders) it looks ridiculously hunched over and gorilla-like. And that is he problem.

 

Anyone who's ever watched The Godfather knows that all males can sit perfectly well cross-legged and still seem masculine and dangerous lol! 

[Grieving Natashina]

Cause it's OK to make ONE post in a thread of 350 and then get insta-accused for paranoia. Right. Sorry, missed the memo that it's OK. My bad. 

 

Oh, and btw, I don't disagree with anybody. I just said my piece. I didn't argue. I didn't blame. I didn't bitchwhine. I did nothing. Mainly cause it's not such a big issue for me how my Inquisitor walks. Yeah, if they walked on all fours I'd take some exception, but they don't. So, since you're making the coffee care to explain why am *i* getting the backlash? 

I wasn't attacking you.  I wasn't taking sides, that's between you and the other poster.

 

It was a polite request.  That's all and I'm sorry if you thought I was trying to come down on you.  

[Octarin]

I wasn't attacking you.  I wasn't taking sides, that's between you and the other poster.

 

It was a polite request.  That's all.  

 

And I wasn't referring to you, I was referring to the poster I replied to. Whatever. Forget it. Obviously I'm not getting through here.

[Grieving Natashina]

And I wasn't referring to you, I was referring to the poster I replied to. Whatever. Forget it. Obviously I'm not getting through here.

I know you weren't talking to me, but let's not accuse others of being on drugs, please?  That's all I was getting at.  I promise.

[cindercatz]

If you're in a sprint, not a distance run, you want a longer, pushing stride. Our characters are not sprinting, like ever, because it's highly expensive on the body to do that. Our characters are distance running if anything, a lot closer to a jog. Now on an attack charging move, I'd agree with you somewhat, except that would be alot more about gaining leverage on a step. It's still a completely different motion. Think moving inta a Bruce Lee step kick or an MMA Rhonda Rouse (sp) chute to ground. But we don't have anything like that in the game. It's just abstracted with a flashy forward slide like the rogue's backstab special.

I forgot about the bull charge ability, whatever it's called. Again, not a sprint, but it should be a power run, with leverage behind it. I have no idea what it looks like though. I play realtime and rarely switch off to my warrior. Only one I've really seen at all is Iron Bull (because bull run ), so I have no opinion.  If the lady warrior still had the same animation, I'd agree it'd be way off.

[Calders]

Do you ever get the impression we are over thinking something

 

I get that people don't like the female run, to be honest I think its over the top, as is the male run.  Complaining about this is fine (although frankly there are many more important things wrong with the game).  

 

Its just the decent into hyperbola that's frustrating.  The assumption that anything you don't like that is gender related is driven by a contempt for women, and the assumption that more manly = better, and more feminine = worse (especially in a world where the most powerful force is magic not physical strength).

[Octarin]

I know you weren't talking to me, but let's not accuse others of being on drugs, please?  That's all I was getting at.  I promise.

 

Then drunk perhaps. Scotch? Bacardi and Rum? Stolichnaya straight? It must have been something at the very least... 

 

lol I'm kidding, yeah sure no worries. As I said, it really really really REALLY doesn't matter to me at this point if the femquisitor walks like Taras Bulba. There are more pressing issues to be addressed. It just amazes me that this has been an issue since ME2 and still is today.

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

^ Whats wrong whith cheep beer? 

Since when is non-gender neutral movement sexist? o.O That's just reality, and that's my point. It could be better, sure, but 'better' doesn't mean exactly the same, or consciously less appealing because politics. I just get tired of seeing these attitudes being treated like gospel truth and a political wedge when they're not and they shouldn't be. If you can just do more options, great, but I've actually studied movement a good bit. I was an animation major, I was an athlete, I've trained a bit in martial arts. I know what I'm talking about. Somebody saying 'sexism' doesn't make their argument more valid. I get tired of that trope.

eh? i never said that.

dude i freekin agree thats what my post says.

check out my 1st post thats what i sugested.

the run isnt sexist its lazy.   

[SixWingedAngel18]

I dont care how my inquisitor runs, but as people have said female characters look absolutely ridiculous in cutscenes. Its off putting when my small, girly elf puffs out her chest and stomps into cutscenes like she's about to pull a Rambo on everyone in the room

And how she sits on the damn throne! Lol that never gets old.

[SixWingedAngel18]

Also, women have hips. They sway when we walk/run. Its part of the difference between genders. I couldnt run/walk like a heterosexual man if I tried, nor would i want to. Its the same reason men cant sway their hips to a dance rhythm without considerable practice.

Men and women are different, end of.

[Seshete]

Here's my take - as an amateur animator.

 

Different body shapes have different walks. A wide-hipped female walks differently from a narrow-hipped female walks differently from a wide-shouldered male walks differently from a narrow-shouldered male walks differently from ....

 

And that's just with the hips and shoulders. Don't get me started on differences in leg length, foot shape, knee and back and arm structure. And there's cultural differences, personality differences: a whole host of things the animator takes into consideration, if they're trying to do it right.

 

Simply having a single walk animation for a dwarf, an elf, a human and a qunari is WRONG, IMO. The short-legged, wide-bodied dwarf should be walking much differently from a long-legged, wide-bodied qunari. Who should be walking differently from a long-medium-legged medium-bodied human, and a short-medium-legged narrow-bodied elf.

 

Once you have that right, you can tweak a neutral 'dwarf' walk to make a 'male dwarf' and a 'female dwarf' pair of variants; and put all three variants into the player options. Regardless of which biological cisgendered sex they chose to play.

Ditto for the other races.

 

You can also choose to do that for other animations, if you see fit.

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

even then ive seen guys swing ther hips.

easy solution next game everyone floats... or we make everyonr Golems sexy ass golems..or add a walk toggle what ever works.

i honestly just want to kill stuff.

[Nefla]

Also, women have hips. They sway when we walk/run. Its part of the difference between genders. I couldnt run/walk like a heterosexual man if I tried, nor would i want to. Its the same reason men cant sway their hips to a dance rhythm without considerable practice.

Men and women are different, end of.

Neither men nor women have a spine that can flex side to side to such a degree without the legs doing the same. Someone with a big butt/hips will have butt jiggle and appear to have a little sway when one side flexes and then the other, or they could do an exaggerated walk on purpose but the legs guide that motion by crossing in front of each other or similar. Femquisitor's spine moves like a cooked noodle but her legs move in a normal way. It looks so wrong that it's in my uncanny valley and creeps me out to see (especially in the skyhold outfit.

[Octarin]

Just get used to the fact that it's not going to change. It's as simple as that, sadly. We've been saying the same since ME2, and BW hasn't batted an eyelid. What makes you think they're going to now?

[Voragoras]

Do you ever get the impression we are over thinking something

 

I get that people don't like the female run, to be honest I think its over the top, as is the male run.  Complaining about this is fine (although frankly there are many more important things wrong with the game).  

 

Its just the decent into hyperbola that's frustrating.  The assumption that anything you don't like that is gender related is driven by a contempt for women, and the assumption that more manly = better, and more feminine = worse (especially in a world where the most powerful force is magic not physical strength).

 

I agree. I don't like the female run because I think it looks silly on heavily armoured warriors, so I'd rather there be neutral ground, but others might think it looks cool. That's fine too.

[Cornughon]

I get that people don't like the female run, to be honest I think its over the top, as is the male run.  Complaining about this is fine (although frankly there are many more important things wrong with the game).

Well some people think that's more distracting and more important to fix than say the control 'issues', or that people can't even play the game due to technical issues.

For example: personally I couldn't care less for not having the ability to 'walk', since I never use it anyway in these kind of games. But a lot of people believe they can't even play the game without it because it ruins immersion for them.

What I think is more important than anything else is fixing the multi-GPU issues with opaque smoke and flickering textures. And adding more and better hair- and eyebrowstyles suited for female characters. And a 'mirror of transformation'. So to each his/her own priorities, which makes us human ofcourse

[Chenoah]

It was even worse in DA2. 

[Voragoras]

It was even worse in DA2. 

 

Pendulum booty.

[SixWingedAngel18]

Neither men nor women have a spine that can flex side to side to such a degree without the legs doing the same. Someone with a big butt/hips will have butt jiggle and appear to have a little sway when one side flexes and then the other, or they could do an exaggerated walk on purpose but the legs guide that motion by crossing in front of each other or similar. Femquisitor's spine moves like a cooked noodle but her legs move in a normal way. It looks so wrong that it's in my uncanny valley and creeps me out to see (especially in the skyhold outfit.

Oh great, now I see what you mean. Her spine is odd. I cant un-see this now, lol!!