452 réponses à ce sujet

[Grieving Natashina]

Pendulum booty.

[Keitaro57]

Here's my take - as an amateur animator.

 

Different body shapes have different walks. A wide-hipped female walks differently from a narrow-hipped female walks differently from a wide-shouldered male walks differently from a narrow-shouldered male walks differently from ....

 

And that's just with the hips and shoulders. Don't get me started on differences in leg length, foot shape, knee and back and arm structure. And there's cultural differences, personality differences: a whole host of things the animator takes into consideration, if they're trying to do it right.

 

Simply having a single walk animation for a dwarf, an elf, a human and a qunari is WRONG, IMO. The short-legged, wide-bodied dwarf should be walking much differently from a long-legged, wide-bodied qunari. Who should be walking differently from a long-medium-legged medium-bodied human, and a short-medium-legged narrow-bodied elf.

 

Once you have that right, you can tweak a neutral 'dwarf' walk to make a 'male dwarf' and a 'female dwarf' pair of variants; and put all three variants into the player options. Regardless of which biological cisgendered sex they chose to play.

Ditto for the other races.

 

You can also choose to do that for other animations, if you see fit.

Perhaps are you giving the best answer here.

 

The problem doesn't lies in our perception, our wish but in time and money. It'll take lot more time and money to make 3X4= 12 differents animations than only 2 of them. Takes a lot of time with the motion capture and a lot of memory in the game itself.

[Octarin]

Perhaps are you giving the best answer here.

 

The problem doesn't lies in our perception, our wish but in time and money. It'll take lot more time and money to make 3X4= 12 differents animations than only 2 of them. Takes a lot of time with the motion capture and a lot of memory in the game itself.

 

And then again, they could have chosen not to base the inquisitor-sitting-on-throne animation on Conan the Barbarian.

 

 http://l3cdn.funcom...._05-466x600.jpg 

 

Kinda given the fact that only a couple of Inquisitors would ever be anywhere remotely like Conan. Just saying over here, maybe it's also a bad and sloppy choice of modeling. 

[Octarin]

Also, ROFLMAO, too much ROFLMAO!!! 

 

Check this out, entirely justified comments, entirely true, and entirely hilarious!!

 

http://www.reddit.co...mas_in_skyhold/

 

[Baerdface]

I don't care how they run as long as I catch them

[Seshete]

Neither men nor women have a spine that can flex side to side to such a degree without the legs doing the same. Someone with a big butt/hips will have butt jiggle and appear to have a little sway when one side flexes and then the other, or they could do an exaggerated walk on purpose but the legs guide that motion by crossing in front of each other or similar.

 

Did a 'deportment' course in high school when trying to avoid 'organised sports'.

 

That particular gait is achieved by placing the feet directly in front of each other when walking - not unlike the 'walking along a line' exercise. It can be exaggerated with high heeled shoes, and by walking toe-heel instead of heel-toe.

 

Perhaps are you giving the best answer here.

 

The problem doesn't lies in our perception, our wish but in time and money. It'll take lot more time and money to make 3X4= 12 differents animations than only 2 of them. Takes a lot of time with the motion capture and a lot of memory in the game itself.

 

Not much in the way of memory: a walk cycle can be described with math, which takes only bytes of data (as opposed to KB or MB or worse).

 

The greatest effort is in the first walk cycle. Once you have that one correct, it's a matter of being fussy, fidgetty and detail-oriented to get the rest correct. But then I don't use mocap; I prefer to have a more direct control over exactly how my model moves.

 

Hm. Actually my greatest amount of time is spent studying how people move, tbh.

 

But yes, you are correct: it takes almost 6 times as many man-hours to make 12 equal animations as 2: more, if you include administrative effort and collaboration time with model-makers and so forth.

Even so, since we only have 8 possible model shapes (4 races by 2 sexes), the tweaking time to get the animations absolutely correct for each set could well be worthwhile.

 

But again, it's a matter of where to spend the money: and of finding suitable animators!
 

[tmp7704]

Also, women have hips.

Surprisingly, so do men!
 

They sway when we walk/run. Its part of the difference between genders. I couldnt run/walk like a heterosexual man if I tried, nor would i want to.

Does it mean you could run/walk like a homosexual or a bisexual man? What about women, could you walk like one whose sexual orientation is different from your own?

Does it mean people of one gender can actually run/walk differently depending on other factors like their sexual orientation*?

Does it mean the whole "men and women are different, end of" isn't really as clear cut as you try to make it?


*) the idea your walk is affected specifically by your sexual orientation is pretty obv. absurd but hey, we'll go with it for the sake of argument

[errantknight]

Welp, females look perfectly normal once combat starts. It's the getting to combat that's weird. So I'm thinking it's not that they can't do it, it's that they thought this was a better idea than a shared walk. Personally, I think they were wrong. Not malicious, just misguided.

[Baerdface]

It's silly how people deny the physical differences between males and females. These things aren't a part of the social issues, physically we are different, there's nothing wrong with that. Just like estrogen has different effects to testosterone. The survival of entire human race is based on that difference and sexual attraction. Deal with it.

 

"Male" and "female" isn't a social construct invented by "the patriarchy", it is a fact of nature, it's how mammals work.

 

 

[_Aine_]

I have noticed that it looked like she had a bit of a limp or something. I always notice it in the prologue when she walks up to the Inquisitor.

 

It may be that they did this to make-believe that is a heavy weapon on her hip...but I doubt it.  As walk cycles go, a"limp" is actually pretty common animation error when they accidentally repeat a frame at the beginning/end of the cycle.   Not sure if that is what happened with Cassandra (is it in every cutscene?)  but it is a common mistake.  

[Octarin]

Surprisingly, so do men!
 
Does it mean you could run/walk like a homosexual or a bisexual man? What about women, could you walk like one whose sexual orientation is different from your own?

Does it mean people of one gender can actually run/walk differently depending on other factors like their sexual orientation*?

Does it mean the whole "men and women are different, end of" isn't really as clear cut as you try to make it?


*) the idea your walk is affected specifically by your sexual orientation is pretty obv. absurd but hey, we'll go with it for the sake of argument

 

While born females and born males have slightly different configurations that make women's hips sway more, nobody can claim that men can't sway or they can't learn how to sway in a very feminine manner. Same goes with women, while we do naturally sway, some women have an exaggerated sway, either naturally or by choice. The plain fact is that most males don't sway and most females do. So it might have been alot more useful to have an option for posture, kinda like what they did in Sims4 they introduced different types of walking and posturing, so they could have introduced a couple of choices one more "traditionally butch", see Conan, and one more "traditionally delicate". But it's what other people have mentioned, it's all about time and money. Developing two different sets of animations fully is double the time and money, so it might even have been suggested and dismissed. Who knows. 

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

just look at john Wyne,

[tmp7704]

While born females and born males have slightly different configurations that make women's hips sway more, nobody can claim that men can't sway or they can't learn how to sway in a very feminine manner. Same goes with women, while we do naturally sway, some women have an exaggerated sway, either naturally or by choice.

Yup, that's pretty much it. The actual, measured in a study sway difference between the genders was something like 3 degrees iirc. That's not even 1% of a circle to give rough idea how small difference that is. This is why I'm not really willing to buy the "women and men just are like that" arguments -- while it's perfectly fine for an individual to opt for walking in stereotypically feminine manner, biology has way less to do with that than the combination of social norms and/or individual choices.

Ideally, I'd like to see games take a page from applications like Poser, which allow you to 'design' walk/run cycle by blending between few of them with slider(s). This way an individual can easily pick some particular style they're the most comfortable with.

[Voragoras]

I don't really care how "realistic" it is - I just think it's stupid to look at.

[light_bearer]

I hate how the men have big arms but tiny chests and non existent quads. Sounds nit picky, but if we're complaining about the walk of females we may as well address the completely unbalanced build of the males. They didn't have dumb bells back in the day for 12 year olds to waste their time curling. Even now most guys with a good build have big chests, a big back, and big legs. You only see a couple of idiotic pre teens that have built arms but small chests and legs for every 10 balanced weight lifters.

[Ryzaki]

Neither men nor women have a spine that can flex side to side to such a degree without the legs doing the same. Someone with a big butt/hips will have butt jiggle and appear to have a little sway when one side flexes and then the other, or they could do an exaggerated walk on purpose but the legs guide that motion by crossing in front of each other or similar. Femquisitor's spine moves like a cooked noodle but her legs move in a normal way. It looks so wrong that it's in my uncanny valley and creeps me out to see (especially in the skyhold outfit.

 

And now in addition to the giant butt wiggle I'm seeing this too. UGH.

[gay_wardens]

hey OP

 

when's the last time YOU played a DA GAME? FFS... this is practically backed up by lore at this point

[Lady_Intimidator]

Yes. I have noticed the over exaggerated hip-sway and ass. (so have my male friends - they've commented, rather often on both) The hip-sway doesnt mother me so much as the weird arms thing she does, arms held away from sides, hands kinda flipped up. its weird

[Remmirath]

The way the female Inquisitor walks and runs in cutscenes is strictly male-ish. There is nothing womanly about it.  In addition, the way she sits is also manly in cutscenes. The way a woman sits is culture specific as well as an etiquette taught by parents (especially mothers).

The walking, running, and sitting all look rather neutral to me in cutscenes. As to the sitting specifically, yes, I'm sure it is culture specific, and depends largely on taught etiquette. Perhaps this is a a valid argument for the female human, who is a noble, but why would the elf's parents have taught her to sit differently than that? The dwarf's? The Qunari's? Given that it's generally accepted in Thedas that women are just as likely to fight in the army and such as men, and that both men and women who are priests or mages wear robes, wouldn't it make more sense for sitting with legs open to be classified as more 'fighter behaviour' and with legs closed to be more 'mage behaviour' than for it to be classified along gender lines?
 

I was thought to not sit with my legs wide open (to cross my legs at the ankles when sitting down) and to not stand with my legs wide open, just comfortably so. I am a runner. I don’t run the way the female Inquisitor does outside of cutscenes (her normal run when not in cutscenes), but when I jog, it is similar.  Hence, the way I run and jog is specific to me; just like no two people are alike (not even maternal twins are alike; there is a slight differential between them), no two runners are alike (or no two people walk alike).

Okay. Nobody ever urged me not to do those things, and I tend to both sit and stand with legs fairly far apart. Nothing wrong with either. I do completely agree that the movements of any given person are, if not unique, very close to it -- but that's obviously an animation nightmare, so I'd say a choice between two or a handful of options would be best, and failing that, simply providing the most neutral animation set possible to everyone would be better.
 

So, it boils down to the center of gravity. For women, it is more of the hips; for males it is more of the upper body.  As some members wrote in this thread, running (walking) is: person specific. Bioware found a medium for females; and it is not exaggerated in my opinion.  In DA II, I think it was cute because some women do run and walk like femme Hawke.   We have to be thankful that Bioware is among the few companies out there that caters to us females and provides us the choice to play as a female.    It is insulting to be called names when one is being as nature intended (I wrote this when  the title had Bimbos in it). One can only be oneself. This is a video game after all.

Name calling doesn't help anything, and is unpleasant and counter-productive. I definitely agree there. There's nothing wrong with walking or acting in a highly 'feminine' or highly 'masculine' manner (or whatever other descriptive terms one would prefer to use -- I personally consider those so ill-defined as be just about meaningless).

Yes, the centre of gravity is a bit different, and the skeletal structure is different about the pelvis/hips -- but just how different it is depends on the person in question. If you randomly select a bunch of men, and a bunch of women, you'll get a very wide variety of walks and runs. If you select those people to be specifically trained in the use of melee weapons, you're going to get less variance, at least when they're in a combat situation.

To my eyes, the DA:I animation is exaggerated, but not as much as the DA II animation. Yes, some women do run and walk like the DA II animations, but some also do like ME 2's, which people complained of for different reasons (personally, I fall much closer to the ME 2 side of that than the DA II side). I'm certainly glad that the choice to play a female character is there, but I'd rather the game not make any assumptions about the character of my character based upon that choice. Those should be made by the player. Either a choice, or neutral animations, allows for that.
 

Plate armor is rather flexible and articulated. It had to be. If not, riding would have been impossible, as would fighting. Also, it didn't weigh nearly as much as you're claiming. It could weigh as little as 30lbs.

Indeed. It would be possible to walk and run like that while wearing plate, and I think it's a perfectly fine option. It doesn't fit my character at all, so I try to ignore it as best as I can; I would much rather have had a choice to use the other animation set.

[errantknight]

It was even worse in DA2.

Yes. Yes, it was, lol.

[wayhell]

You hear this Bioware whatever you do you are wrong.

[Adanu]

 I'd like to see this bit of Misogyny dealt with in future releases.

 

You lost any claim to not troll baiting right here.

 

Sometimes SJWs have some semblance of sanity (rare, but it happens), this is not one of those moments.

 

Go back to tumblr and twitter where your kind have an echo chamber.

[Grieving Natashina]

You hear this Bioware whatever you do you are wrong.

Aww, shucks.  I bet you say that to all the negative feedback threads, right?

[KBomb]

I believe some people are over-thinking this way too much.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Seriously? When did you last see a female athlete run like that? Even Ronda Rousey doesn't look that stupid running. Bit sexist if you ask me. I mean maybe some of the girlier characters might run that way but the Warriors? I'd like to see this bit of Misogyny dealt with in future releases.

 

You don't think this might be an inappropriate use of the word "misogyny?"