452 réponses à ce sujet

[Vikarus]

I also can't stand the female animations in this game. I looked forward to finally being able to play a female character with the inclusion of qunari, but I couldn't get past the introduction when my female MERCENARY WARRIOR decided to skip her way to the breach. I find it intolerable, and it means I can't personally can't play a female character because I can't take her seriously.

That being said, I can't speak for everyone else. I saw a lot of dialogue on the forums about how all you lady gamers wanted long hairstyles and more feminine animations after Shepard's... Shepard. I think a toggle would be great. I mean even games like League of Legends have it as a feature for some of their champions, so I know it wouldn't be too demanding on resources.

[Calders]

I agree that gender is a social construct but I don't really see how it applies to anything I said before in regard to the internalized misogyny exhibited by a lot of ladies in this thread.

 

Gender is not a social construct its a physical fact, you might argue that gender norms are a social construct but some of them may have biological basis so its hard to state this so broadly.  Also morality is a social construct so just because something is a social construct doesn't mean its bad by default.  

[Pasquale1234]

Gender is not a social construct its a physical fact, you might argue that gender norms are a social construct but some of them may have biological basis so its hard to state this so broadly.  Also morality is a social construct so just because something is a social construct doesn't mean its bad by default.  

 

Sex - as in male, female, other, etc. - is a physical fact.

 

Gender - as in masculine, feminine, androgynous, other, etc. - is a social construct and varies by culture over time.

 

I've hated the fact that gender is so often being used to mean sex, because it has caused a lot of confusion in the meaning of the terminology.
 

[Eggplant Hell Princess]

I think you're presuming a lot to accuse people of self-loathing internalized misogyny.

 

I'd agree that the use of the word "bimbo" was an unfortunate choice.

 

Are black people who find rap music distasteful self-loathing internalized racists?
 

 

I am not black so I don't think it would be appropriate for me to answer your question (rhetorical though it may be), but I really don't think it's much of a presumption to say that women who eagerly throw around misogynist language and devalue anything feminine solely on the basis of it being feminine may have a bit of a self-loathing streak. It's pretty common among women with traditionally "masculine" interests.

 

Maybe my original post was a bit harsh, but I stand by it.

 

 

Gender is not a social construct its a physical fact, you might argue that gender norms are a social construct but some of them may have biological basis so its hard to state this so broadly.  Also morality is a social construct so just because something is a social construct doesn't mean its bad by default.  

 

Your second point has nothing to do with anything in this thread, and your first point is completely wrong. See Pasquale1234's excellent response to your post.

[Calders]

Sex - as in male, female, other, etc. - is a physical fact.

 

Gender - as in masculine, feminine, androgynous, other, etc. - is a social construct and varies by culture over time.

 

I've hated the fact that gender is so often being used to mean sex, because it has caused a lot of confusion in the meaning of the terminology.
 

 

Fair point, according to the OED the actual definition is "the state of being male or female (typically used to reference social or cultural differences)", so its not completely clear.  But I will stand corrected... having said that I still don't think there is anything inherently wrong with social constructs and in this case they may be guided by biological facts and pre-dispositions.

[_Aine_]

Part of the problem with the animations (which are not *all* awful, at all) is that they are inconsistent. There are animations used in cutscenes that are clearly not the stock animation that has been used (I think, just by appearances, without going back to double check) in many BioWare games and again in very prominent scenes in this game also.  Male or female, the animation is the same.  That same bow legged, masculate turn and shoulder forward, head thrust forward and slightly down and turned strut with legs wide and arms out away from sides (both very masculine postures).  It's pretty noticeable.  Then in other cutscenes, the animation is actually really good.  Some of Cassandra's cutscenes are pretty good, and some of them that include the female Inquisitor were actually pretty good also.  The walk is often different in many of the cutscenes though.    As for the overall game-play run?  I didn't think it *wasn't* a female run, nor did it jump out to me as being overly foo-foo... in fact, I can't recall it at all which is usually a good thing.    I will pay more attention next I run my female.  I'll have to go in and check it out now, you have me curious I may be back to edit lol

 

Have to say though, a walk/run/style toggle would be a nice addition.  Some consistency with the walk/posture/runs in cutscenes would be nice too.  It's a great game, details add to that.  From a financial standpoint, I do understand why they reuse animations, though.  It is just when other animations are much smoother and more natural, those oldones start to stick out and look a bit out of place.  

 

and fwiw: male/female runs/walks usually differ due to anatomical and gender differences.  a good tool to see the variation is http://www.biomotion.../BMLgender.html (it's basic, but decent)

[Natashina]

All I know is that I've tried to just walk like the default animation and my hips didn't swing that wide.  When I attempted to force my hips to swing as widely as the female PC does, my husband laughingly told me to stop.  Apparently it looked utterly ridiculous and he was afraid I'd end up injuring myself.    Running like that was even more comical.  

 

If the animation teams insists on having different walk/run styles between the genders (which hey, the sex of someone and how it relates to center of body mass argument is very valid,) I think they need to mo-cap the way most women would actually walk in armor.  As it is, it feels exaggerated and forced.  Oh and please get rid of those stupid idle animations.  My arms hang down at my sides, not out to the side.

[sandalisthemaker]

I've made my dislike for the female walking/running animations known many times, but the *standing* pose takes the cake.  

 

I laugh and SMH every time I watch Femquisitor standing while wearing her Skyhold outfit. Especially femDwarf. Lmao.

[Natashina]

I've made my dislike for the female walking/running animations known many times, but the *standing* pose takes the cake.  

 

I laugh and SMH every time I watch Femquisitor standing while wearing her Skyhold outfit. Especially femDwarf. Lmao.

I honestly thought the lady Cadash wasn't as obviously to me as other races.  The poor poor female elves, on the other hand...

[Pasquale1234]

I am not black so I don't think it would be appropriate for me to answer your question (rhetorical though it may be), but I really don't think it's much of a presumption to say that women who eagerly throw around misogynist language and devalue anything feminine solely on the basis of it being feminine may have a bit of a self-loathing streak. It's pretty common among women with traditionally "masculine" interests.
 
Maybe my original post was a bit harsh, but I stand by it.

I don't disagree that some of the language is problematic.

But I'm not seeing people engaging in the form of devaluation you describe. Is it possible that some respondents:
1) Have different ideas about what is feminine?
2) Place little to no value on anyone else's standards RE what constitutes femininity?
3) Have different tastes / reference points about walk / run animations in video games?

That animation is very exaggerated, and not a natural gait for the vast majority of the female population. In fact, I don't believe I've ever seen a real live woman run like the characters in this game.

[Ryzaki]

Been asking myself that for a few years now OP.  I also think it's funny that my lady Inquisitor has that stupid strut in regular gameplay, but uses the male (read: default) animation for the cutscenes.  What's even the point of having two different walking styles at all?  

 

I'll never understand that.  

 

So her ass could wiggle when you play her but they don't have to be bothered with the effort of having it be consistent in cinematics.

 

That's what it looks like for me *shrug*

[Ryzaki]

I prefered the ME1 animations for female Shepard, different but not girlish, before they stopped putting effort into her character & made her male Shep with boobs

 

Actually she and dude Shep always had the same animations.

 

It's just femShep walked a wee bit like a dude and male Shep walked a bit like a lady.

 

Honestly it worked for me. It wasn't absurdly exaggerated in either direction.

 

Alas we then got the gorilla walk in ME2 and ME3.

[Namea]

Lol women who don't sit with their legs as wide as the ****** Grand Canyon are now dainty twits. Ok...

 

The sitting animation looks fake and stupid with a male Inquisitor and doubly so with a female one. I hate this self-loathing bullshit a lot of women pull where anything feminine is considered lesser and dumb. The idea that women have to behave hyper-masculinely to deserve any respect is toxic and I'm sad so many women in this thread subscribe to it.

 

No but there's no way some weak little woman who cares so much about being feminine could come to lead an army. When you're leading an army the size of a country who wants to sit like a polite little woman. I sure as hell wouldn't have any respect for someone who is supposed to be good in a fight that sat like that. 

 

They don't have to be hyper masculine but the idea that every single woman has to be this "oh so pretty" construct of a doll is way more damaging than the idea that a woman could be her own person and not conform to outdated social norms on what "women" need to act like. 

 

I wear makeup, I like to dress up. I don't consider that lesser or dumb but if I were a leader I wouldn't care how I was sitting and I certainly wouldn't be downright strutting across a battlefield. 

 

Not to mention that if your inquisitor uses mounts it's actually more physically possible that they'd sit like that. Women and men who ride a lot do tend to sit like that because it's more comfortable on the hips and back after a day of riding. 

 

Not to mention that walking and especially running the way a femquisitor does is not physically possible without training and effort. There's no way that a dwarven merc has that kind of training and effort. Dancers, models, or people who are trying to show off walk like that. Any normal woman does not unless they're focusing on walking that way. 

[Etragorn]

I'm often amazed at the things people notice in games. I haven't given the gait of my characters a single thought.

[Natashina]

After 270 hours of combined game time between DA2 and DA:I (according to Origin,) it became glaring after awhile.  Even then, I probably wouldn't care so much if they kept the animation consistent between gameplay and the cut scenes.

[Ryzaki]

After 270 hours of combined game time between DA2 and DA:I (according to Origin,) it became glaring after awhile.  Even then, I probably wouldn't care so much if they kept the animation consistent between gameplay and the cut scenes.

 

Honestly that is the worst part.

 

I could've gotten used to bombshell walk. (though I laughed my ass off with Giselle did it.)

 

But fem Pc goes from bombshell walk in freaking fields like wat then cutscene time she's walking like there's something shoving her legs apart.

[Lintton]

Bimbo is not a walk.

[Natashina]

Honestly that is the worst part.

 

I could've gotten used to bombshell walk. (though I laughed my ass off with Giselle did it.)

 

But fem Pc goes from bombshell walk in freaking fields like wat then cutscene time she's walking like there's something shoving her legs apart.

Oh c'mon, Giselle strutting was awesome.  Girl's still got it going on!  

[AWTEW]

Thread claims misogony, and then some people ask for feminine behavior (despite said feminine behavior being a result of patriarchy..) :/

Stay classy, BsN..

[Ryzaki]

Oh c'mon, Giselle strutting was awesome.  Girl's still got it going on!  

 

It looks absurd in that outfit you must admit

[Weltall]

I think you're presuming a lot to accuse people of self-loathing internalized misogyny.

 

I'd agree that the use of the word "bimbo" was an unfortunate choice.

 

Are black people who find rap music distasteful self-loathing internalized racists?
 

I hadn't thought of this before now, but if they referred to black people who like rap by the N-word, that assessment might not be that inaccurate.

[taglag]

Because there hot, and if you got it flaunt it

[Natashina]

It looks absurd in that outfit you must admit

I can't help but find it a little awesome though.  

[Weltall]

I also can't stand the female animations in this game. I looked forward to finally being able to play a female character with the inclusion of qunari, but I couldn't get past the introduction when my female MERCENARY WARRIOR decided to skip her way to the breach. I find it intolerable, and it means I can't personally can't play a female character because I can't take her seriously.

That being said, I can't speak for everyone else. I saw a lot of dialogue on the forums about how all you lady gamers wanted long hairstyles and more feminine animations after Shepard's... Shepard. I think a toggle would be great. I mean even games like League of Legends have it as a feature for some of their champions, so I know it wouldn't be too demanding on resources.

Shouldn't be. There are games like Dragon's Dogma that have a slider that lets you set not only how masculine/feminine a character's stance/walk is, but also their posture. I think that more logical than having a single option that makes it all or nothing for all characters, or even all female characters, would be to go back and adjust every character on that slider based on their personality/lifestyle/characteristics. I would imagine a character like Vivienne having very feminine movements, while Cassandra, less so. I could see Iron Bull as having very macho movements, while Solas and Dorian, less so. The challenge would be then going back and applying that to all the characters. They could probably get away with just doing it to the most crucial of characters and most of the NPCs can maintain a neutral posture.

[Squeeze the Fish]

I guess I'm in the minority, I'd prefer female animations to be distinct from males. I *hated* femshep's animations in ME2- head all down and swinging from side to side, lumbering arounder like she had a serious misconception about the size of her limbs.... *shudder*