39 réponses à ce sujet

[helpthisguyplease]

Sometimes I wonder why doesn't Bioware make polls to see what most people prefer and do what they want. Because the majority decides and the minority respects that or else you will just be frustrated because you can not do a thing because they are stronger then you. So should Bioware make a pool to see what most people think the best  ideas Bioware should feature, especially when 2 ideas are in conflict when they make a game?

[Andraste_Reborn]

There are two problems with this.

 

1. You have to remember that the people who come to the forums are a tiny, tiny minority of the total Dragon Age audience. Most people who play games don't care about them enough to want a place to talk about them endlessly on the internet, and even some of the hardcore fanbase stay away from the BioWare forums for various reasons. Any data gathered here would be unreliable as a guide to what most players want.

 

2. Designing a game by committee is just not likely to work. Systems often work the way they do because they interlock with other systems, or because of limitations the audience aren't in a good position to understand. Not to mention that the designers probably want to actually design the game, rather than getting a bunch of strangers to do it for them.

[Kantr]

They should take feedback into account yes. But creating polls to dictate to them would not be a good idea

[helpthisguyplease]

They should take feedback into account yes. But creating polls to dictate to them would not be a good idea

Why not that you said something bad but why? Its something I do not understand why its not used but since its not there bust be some huge flaw there but I do not know what it is.

[Kantr]

Why not that you said something bad but why? Its something I do not understand why its not used but since its not there bust be some huge flaw there but I do not know what it is.

 

 

2. Designing a game by committee is just not likely to work. Systems often work the way they do because they interlock with other systems, or because of limitations the audience aren't in a good position to understand. Not to mention that the designers probably want to actually design the game, rather than getting a bunch of strangers to do it for them.

[helpthisguyplease]

 If you know is this proven or is just speculation up until the wants of the designers. About designers it sucks to be them but I will be happy like the stockholders of EA.

1. You have to remember that the people who come to the forums are a tiny, tiny minority of the total Dragon Age audience. Most people who play games don't care about them enough to want a place to talk about them endlessly on the internet, and even some of the hardcore fanbase stay away from the BioWare forums for various reasons. Any data gathered here would be unreliable as a guide to what most players want.

As long as it a representative minority of the playerbase its good you know like the presidential polls.

[BammBamm]

no, game communities as a whole are not a source of mature behaviour or common sense, so not qualified to make decisions this way. in the past alpha and betatests gave a good overlook about features and how players like them, but doesnt seem to be anymore. just testing with intern QA is just not enough, not for bugs and not for features.

[helpthisguyplease]

no, game communities as a whole are not a source of mature behaviour or common sense, so not qualified to make decisions this way. in the past alpha and betatests gave a good overlook about features and how players like them, but doesnt seem to be anymore. just testing with intern QA is just not enough, not for bugs and not for features.

Was it proven? I mean was there a game that was released after they did such a thing? I see benefits to do that either the game is a success and it receives less negative feedback or a lot of negative feedback and in that case you show them the poll and they know they do not know what they want.

[Captain Coffee]

No.

[Chaos17]

Yup, polls are a cool idea, less useless talk and drama that way unless the losers of the polls feel frustrated and rage over the forum.

It seems to work over there : http://forum.bioware...anges-get-done/

[Asdrubael Vect]

After playing SWTOR, Mass effect 2, Dragonage 2 and Dragon Age Inquisition i think they should do at least something what would make Bio hear players opinions before they will do somethink what they never wanted and liked in previous games

 

..maybe they start voting system...

 

something like KEEP...we would have some options from devs and we can make a choice

[Lianaar]

The thing is, people say they want this or that, but we are not game designers and thus we would probably be wrong.
There is a reason game designing is a professional job, not made by general people like you and me. Just like your work or my work would not be done easily just by anyone.

 

I am not saying that an amateur or the community can not have good or even great ideas.
You know, many people sit down and write books, they even think they are great. But most of them don't make it to the publishers or to the customers. Because self-aspiring writers (or computer writers) usually lack the skills or the overview of what just clacks the right way.

 

A poll would prove that we are diverse and then we would whine if the poll is not possible to be taken into account (eg I want every conversation to be cinematics, but I also want to pay nothing for the game, while have RPG in it - to be clear my definition of RPG...), or if the outcome is different then what people thought.

 

Any seller must not sell what people say they want, they must sell what people actually buy/enjoy/want.
The best gaming experiences were the ones where I was surprised. I don't want to write the game, I want to enjoy it.

[BammBamm]

Was it proven? I mean was there a game that was released after they did such a thing? I see benefits to do that either the game is a success and it receives less negative feedback or a lot of negative feedback and in that case you show them the poll and they know they do not know what they want.

 

an ever repeating wish of players in space sims are accessible space stations and the ability to move in them. sadly no game has managed so far to implement them as a feature that brings the game further. accessible game stations are a lot of work if you want more than a copy and paste thing and they have to be filled with content to make them fun. when you dont manage to do that they are just a boring time think. so the question is not if accessible stations or not, its a thing of how to add them and how much time it costs and if it shouldnt be invested in other things.

or in inquisition the healing discussion. "we want healing back" and nobody cares about balance and when you bring balance as a problem people just say, they have to do it without unbalancing the system. yeah easy said. its not a matter of add feature or not, more important is how and there the gamers lack of knowledge.

 

and basically with polls games like the witcher, skyrim, divinity or dragon age would be all the same because they share their target audience

[Demon Velsper]

Would be pointless. The poll wouldn't be representative of the players, at best it would only be representative of the forum and even then only the portion that can be arsed to answer it.

 

They already collect telemetry from the games which tells them a lot more about the players already.

 

The thing is, people say they want this or that, but we are not game designers and thus we would probably be wrong.

 

It's not possible to be wrong about wanting something.

[helpthisguyplease]

an ever repeating wish of players in space sims are accessible space stations and the ability to move in them. sadly no game has managed so far to implement them as a feature that brings the game further. accessible game stations are a lot of work if you want more than a copy and paste thing and they have to be filled with content to make them fun. when you dont manage to do that they are just a boring time think. so the question is not if accessible stations or not, its a thing of how to add them and how much time it costs and if it shouldnt be invested in other things.

or in inquisition the healing discussion. "we want healing back" and nobody cares about balance and when you bring balance as a problem people just say, they have to do it without unbalancing the system. yeah easy said. its not a matter of add feature or not, more important is how and there the gamers lack of knowledge.

 

and basically with polls games like the witcher, skyrim, divinity or dragon age would be all the same because they share their target audience

On short we want things no matter the skill, the time and the resources needed. But I do not mean that I mean you give us for example what would you chose bimbo walk animation or a masculine walk animation  or  a hulk like animation. You see they give us a poll to vote for things they can do and  with the idea they came out with not ideas we want to have.

[Lianaar]

It's not possible to be wrong about wanting something.

Really? My kids do it all the time. Or what do you think ads are about? Making you believe you want something. It doesn't mean that is what you need and what makes you happy.
Why do you think there is the saying: be careful what you wish for, it might come true.

[brzoz]

i don't think it's a very good idea.

 

devs should do whatever they want, gamers usually don't know what they want. well, i don't - but when i start a game i know already what pisses me off. and it's mostly due to lack of balance between including all the amazing functionalities devs dreamt about (if you have visions, don't take those pills) and dumbing things down/leaving them in 'TODO' state - because reasons (deadline/stakeholder holds a whip).

 

and when they blame lack/unfinished state of some feature on 'design decisions' it's hilarious.

we don't have healing magic because it was design decision - you should plan ahead...

half of PC skills don't work as intended (according to description) - it was design decision, you should test it to get the better hang of it,

we didn't include cursor mouse movement in tac cam - it was design decision - wsad is more precise than mouse and this lets you use both hands to issue orders instead of one,

we glued male elf arms 5 meters away from his torso and that was design decision - we inspire your imagination

 

rushed development is bad, m'key

[Demon Velsper]

Really? My kids do it all the time. Or what do you think ads are about? Making you believe you want something. It doesn't mean that is what you need and what makes you happy.
Why do you think there is the saying: be careful what you wish for, it might come true.

 

Wanting still isn't wrong. Wanting something you don't need isn't wrong. Want isn't true or false. You can't be wrong for wanting something, getting what you want can be wrong but the act of wanting it isn't.

 

And I don't think you understand that saying.

[Greetsme]

On refection of how Inquisition turned out, I don't think they are the slightest bit interested in our opinions or polls.  They will blindly follow the money, or what they think is money.  It could be ruin.

[Sartoz]

They already did make a poll for DAI. I filled one out.

[ZipZap2000]

They get much better results from data collection when you log in online, besides that the internet isn't the best place to poll the public. 

[daveliam]

There are two problems with this.

 

1. You have to remember that the people who come to the forums are a tiny, tiny minority of the total Dragon Age audience. Most people who play games don't care about them enough to want a place to talk about them endlessly on the internet, and even some of the hardcore fanbase stay away from the BioWare forums for various reasons. Any data gathered here would be unreliable as a guide to what most players want.

 

2. Designing a game by committee is just not likely to work. Systems often work the way they do because they interlock with other systems, or because of limitations the audience aren't in a good position to understand. Not to mention that the designers probably want to actually design the game, rather than getting a bunch of strangers to do it for them.

 

Agreed with both of these.  As interesting as I find polls (including the one that I created yesterday in the Scuttlebutt Spoilers section), they should be taken with a grain of salt and definitely shouldn't be used to determine what features should be included in the games.  You end up with a self-propagating cycle that way.

 

They get much better results from data collection when you log in online, besides that the internet isn't the best place to poll the public. 

 

Exactly.  I would love to get my hands on that data.  Quantitative data

[BiscuitieKai]

You know how poll creates drama ryt? 

oh and im against healing magic in Inquisition it will somehow break the balance and how the game work the developers intended

(imagine if they include healing magic the point of strategically prepare your potion will break) 

[Dreamer]

No. Matters of representation and demographics aside, design-by-committee is notoriously awful.

[helpthisguyplease]

No. Matters of representation and demographics aside, design-by-committee is notoriously awful.

I am confused here is not design-by-commitee actually a designer showing its ideas to a board made by the higher ups of the company or better said the people that deal with promoting and producing and financing a game. You know like when a teacher come with a trip idea for the students but she has to get the approval of most of the other teachers in a meeting(not the best example but you know what I mean). In short you ask other employees not the clients? Scratch what I said wikipedia answered the question no there should be no compromise. You chose the feature that has the most votes you do not compromise here so if most people chose healing over barrier you get healing These polls should be done to chose a idea over the other. As I said the majority decides.