73 réponses à ce sujet

[SG-17]

I've been thinking about the Arlathan = the Black City theory for a while and I've come up with some ideas. What if the Black City isn't Arlathan physically but rather its reflection? We know from Solas/Dread Wolf that the Fade reflects the physical world. If you were to enter the Fade in Skyhold you'd be in the reflection of Skyhold in the Fade. The Black City is always an equidistant object in the Fade. No matter where you are you can look up and see the city. If the Fade is truly a reflection of the world, it would mean that whatever the Black City is, it would be a reflection of something located at the very center of the world. Think of the Hollow Earth stuff, being inside Hollow Earth you'd be standing on the underside of the surface and no matter where you were if you'd look up you would see the core. The Fade is Hollow Earth so to speak.

So I believe that Arlathan was physically sunk to the very center of the world and the Black City is its reflection. But how could the ancient Elves know about the City before and why was it Golden first? Well time doesn't exist in the Fade. There is no past and no future, only existence so while Arlathan wasn't always sunk its reflection was always there. As for the Golden part we now know that the Blight existed long before the Magisters entered the City. The Primeval Taig was sealed away long before the rise of Tevinter and it housed Red Lyrium. We know that Red Lyrium is normal Lyrium infected with the Blight. Could the Blight be a creation of the Primeval Dwarves? Could its creation had been what originally severed the dwarves from the Fade and magic?

So the question arises was Arlathan infected with the Blight after it sunk, or could it have been sunk because it was infected? Could the Blight be a creation of the Dread Wolf to seal away the other 7 Elven Gods? Anyway, what matters is that Arlathan was infected with the Blight as it rests at the center of Thedas. This also explains why the physical forms of the 7 Elven Gods, the dragons who make up the Tevinter's Old Gods, call to the Darkspawn. They were already tainted. They told the Magisters to enter the city to unleash the Blight to free themselves. It would explain why when the Architect found Urethiel, he was already tainted.

So what about the city being originally Golden? Well Corypheus states that the city was already black when they arrived. So perhaps the Golden part was only a legend to explain the origin of the Blight? Perhaps because the Blight is magical in nature it existed in both the world and the Fade? Or perhaps the city was Golden (as Cory says he walked the Golden Halls at the end of the game) and the Magisters found something, perhaps an Eluvian to the physical city that brought the Blight through into the Fade and turned the city black and infected themselves.

What this also means is that there is no Maker, at least not the version the Chantry worships. I believe that the original human Flemeth was the source of the story of Andraste. The stories match. Flemeth was betrayed by her lover and killed. So was Andraste. Flemeth gained the allegiance and power of an Elven God, Andraste the Maker. The headgear that Flemeth/Mythal wears is reminiscent of that we see on Andraste in paintings and statues.

Thats my theory anyway.

[Kantr]

Do we know if the elves knew about it pre-fall?

[SG-17]

I believe they knew of something called The Eternal City in the Fade. I'm not 100% sure on this so maybe someone more knowledgeable about lore can correct me.

[Aurawolf]

This is the beauty of Bioware not saying one way or the other if there is a maker and what not, we can have hundreds of theories and while yours is well thought out and believable the only thing I can think of that makes me think that isn't it is Cory says they stormed the Golden City and saw the throne so unless he was making a lot of metaphors it sounds like they stormed the Golden City in the fade and that is why he needed to go back there.

[SG-17]

I won't be upset if nothing I've said turns out to be true. They threw me through a loop with Flemeth and Solas, I'm sure they can do it again.

[Ashagar]

Flemeth came along after Andraste however and her legend is tied up in the Cousland family history, she's how they came to power in Highover in fact, there's also the fact Andraste was put to death by Tenivntor which is still around, they make still make copies of the sword the Archon used to kill her in a act of mercy in Tenvitor as gifts.

[x1zk0]

Flemeth came along after Andraste however and her legend is tied up in the Cousland family history, she's how they came to power in Highover in fact, there's also the fact Andraste was put to death by Tenivntor which is still around, they make still make copies of the sword the Archon used to kill her in a act of mercy in Tenvitor as gifts.

Tenivntor......

[Gonzo]

Yes, the thing of the black city having a real world counterpart and that being where the blight comes is something we where discussing on another topic a few days ago, and i find it very appealing. Could also explain red lyrium.
Andraste, however, im not só certain. Theres too many records in her life, and flemeth being her just seems odd, as it was stated before, flemeth was a lady from highever at some point.
Andraste is, i believe, a hero just like the inquisitor, whos history was interpreted incorrectly (wich is a running theme on inquisition). I believe BioWare is trying to tell us something, when you deny being the Herald and still people insist on it.

[Kantr]

Andraste may have been a mage.

 

Cory says in DA2 when you wake him up that it was black before they reached it.

 

I'd love a DLC where you visit the black city, even if it does raise more questions.

[herkles]

Andraste, however, im not só certain. Theres too many records in her life, and flemeth being her just seems odd, as it was stated before, flemeth was a lady from highever at some point.
Andraste is, i believe, a hero just like the inquisitor, whos history was interpreted incorrectly (wich is a running theme on inquisition)

Hell I came up with a wild and crazy way of interperting Andraste, and that is that she was an elven woman not human and that Sharitan was her husband not Maferath who in this view was her best and trusted friend, before he betrayed her. 

[Gonzo]

It would be amusing if the imperial chantry was the one with the most accurate beliefs.

[LadyVaJedi]

The question about the Maker is like the show Supernatural when "God" went missing and there was a war between the angels and then with Booger ( revenage of the nerds ) wanting to play god.  Also with Crowely taking over hell and becoming the King of Hell.  I still think that maybe the Maker is on vacation. 

[Yulia]

The world may never know:)

[AsheraII]

Andraste is, i believe, a hero just like the inquisitor, whos history was interpreted incorrectly (wich is a running theme on inquisition). I believe BioWare is trying to tell us something, when you deny being the Herald and still people insist on it.

I think especially DA:I very much supports that theory. Are you, as the Inquisitor, the Herald of Andraste? No, but that is who the people outside your inner circle believe you are, no matter how often you say that you're just a normal person who happened to be in the wrong place at the right time. It's the impression people have from their own perspective, which writes history.

 

This was also the case in DA:O and DA2. No matter what bastard you were in those games, you are still referred to as "The Hero of Ferelden" in DA:O, and "The Champion" in DA2.

 

And funny enough, isn't the "truth" in real life not also colored by those who write about it? There is very little known about the heroics of the Gauls against the Roman empire, since, the Romans mostly won, and were the ones who got to write epic reports about it to keep the homefront happy. The stories from the Gaul side are mostly lost. But, neither ever really told the truth.

[DanAxe]

Andraste may have been a mage.

 

Cory says in DA2 when you wake him up that it was black before they reached it.

 

I'd love a DLC where you visit the black city, even if it does raise more questions.

 

Forget about DLC. Sixth and last game its gonna be Dragon Age: The Black City aka - now we explain everything and then you'll cry and go back to play the whole franchise again cause your mind was blown and you were looking at it all wrong.

 

/cross-finger and hope

[Gonzo]

Nah, i dont think the franchise we'll end on such a high note. I faintly hope they will suport inquisition for 2-3 years with regular expansion packs, but i dont think thats a viable business model. I can definetly see that after we get a stream of mind blowing games they launch a crappy MMO and finish the franchise for good.

[AsheraII]

Nah, i dont think the franchise we'll end on such a high note. I faintly hope they will suport inquisition for 2-3 years with regular expansion packs, but i dont think thats a viable business model. I can definetly see that after we get a stream of mind blowing games they launch a crappy MMO and finish the franchise for good.

I doubt it. MMOs as a whole are definitely over their peak. Not to mention, Bioware and EA definitely learned from the mistake that was SW:TOR, and every other MMO out there. If they were to branch out, I'd put my money on an RTS-RPG hybrid. The two can mix pretty well, and there haven't been many RTS-es worth mentioning the past few years. On top of that, THE Dragon Age Setting does offer some interesting variety in countries and their respective military units, so it's a pretty viable concept that only needs to be worked out.

[Matth85]

Not to mention, Bioware and EA definitely learned from the mistake that was SW:TOR, and every other MMO out there

 

Yeah.. no. Not even close. If a DA MMO is coming, Bioware better have a good backup solution ready. MMOs is not a basket you put your money in. 

[Rekkampum]

I doubt it. MMOs as a whole are definitely over their peak. Not to mention, Bioware and EA definitely learned from the mistake that was SW:TOR, and every other MMO out there. If they were to branch out, I'd put my money on an RTS-RPG hybrid. The two can mix pretty well, and there haven't been many RTS-es worth mentioning the past few years. On top of that, THE Dragon Age Setting does offer some interesting variety in countries and their respective military units, so it's a pretty viable concept that only needs to be worked out.

Yeah, SWTOR as it is now is way better than what we had during launch. I think it's going to be a situation like what happened with FF 14; that MMO was terrible but when they overhauled everything with A Realm Reborn you could tell that Squeenix learned from their mistakes. It's a blast now. If they ever venture into MMO territory again - I doubt they will though - it's safe to say that they definitely won't repeat the mistakes that plagued SWTOR at the beginning.

[SG-17]

The Andraste stuff was just a tack on. I think the biggest question I'd liked answered is does the Red Lyrium from the Primeval Thaig predate the First Blight? Some have argued that because there were golems down there the Thaig must have been reopened at some point during the First Blight. But that doesn't necessarily have to be true.

If the Blight predates the Magisters it changes everything.

[SG-17]

I can't edit on mobile, so I apologize for a double post. Didn't the Paragon who made the golems (I can't remember his name) say that golems could only be made from willing subjects? Spirit transference is something that seems a common thread from the Elves, Dwarves, and Darkspawn.

[Taleroth]

Doesn't have to change everything.

 

What if blight is a consequence of using blood magic and human sacrifice in large enough numbers? What if it's a consequence of flawed breaches into the fade?

 

Maybe that Thaig teamed up with some mages for some despicable rituals. Maybe they tried breaching the Fade back then. Maybe the outcome was the same as when the Magisters did it, but just on a smaller scale that was contained without the old gods.

[Rekkampum]

I can't edit on mobile, so I apologize for a double post. Didn't the Paragon who made the golems (I can't remember his name) say that golems could only be made from willing subjects? Spirit transference is something that seems a common thread from the Elves, Dwarves, and Darkspawn.

No, he said that many volunteered to do so. I think it's important to note that Daemons from the Fade can also trick people into succumbing to them.

 

EDIT: Also note that at some point King Valtor began forcing people to become Golems, and Caridin himself was also a victim of this.

[Vox Draco]

 I still think that maybe the Maker is on vacation. 

 

Can't wait until he returns in his Bermudas, sees his golden City all ruined and blackened, with strange green ooze waterfalling everywhere. Already fuming with wrath he throws his baggage into the corner, removes his straw-hat and the sunglasses, looks at the world of Thedas and what has happened when he was only gone for a couple of millenia:

 

"Who is this Andraste-chick?! And why am I married to her? I was NOT that drunk the last 2000 years!! My wife will be furious when she hears that! And where is that blasted butler!? Corypheus!!! Come here at once and clean up this mess!"

[ZerebusPrime]

The Black City is NOT always equidistant relative to the rest of the Fade.  It's only equidistant in the sense that you can't get any closer or further from it than your entry point.  That bit of lore from DA:O has been contradicted twice:

 

In DA:A, when the darkspawn "First" pulls you into the Fade, you should notice that the Black City is MUCH closer than normal.  

 

And again in DA:I, the Black City is practically close enough to touch, as Solas puts it.  Once again, the magic involved with opening the gateway to the Fade involved the Blight (Warden mages).

 

I would theorize that Blight Magic, if such a thing really exists, can draw one closer to the source of the Blight in the Fade.  Hence the the Black City being closer than normal in these instances.