73 réponses à ce sujet

[lyleoffmyspace]

Does anyone have a picture of the Black City in Inquisition? I was looking for it in the distance but literally couldn't find it anywhere. 

[LadyWench]

If I'm anywhere close to right on Morrigan's lineage I think Keiran being a boy likely had something to do with the DR.  Don't know if the soul of Urthemial is male or female but the Old Gods are all male.  If they're just shells for old Elvhen "god" souls the souls could be either gender.  Urthemial could actually be male or female and the resulting factor was the gender of the dragon.  If the Old God dragons aren't attached to the Elvhen pantheon in any way then it could simply be because of the dragon's gender.  On the fence about this one and I could personally go either way.

Where does Sandal fit into it all?  There is so much good speculation out there that I have no clue.  At this point the myraid of theories all seem to be viable.  A forgotten one?  An actual GOD of the Dwarves?  Toting around an Elvhen soul himself?  An OGB?  The Maker in disguise?  Maybe the first magus dwarf?!  Who knows?!

 

Good distinction between Old God sexes and specific person genders. While it seems DA sticks close to alignment (well...until and/or dependent on how you interpret the closing cutscene, lol), no way to know for sure. I will say this, though: Kieran is male whether he's OGB or regular boy, if that makes a difference to you.

 

As for the rest, I LOVE the mystery of how much are Tevinter and Elvhen enmeshed or not. So many possibilities, I can't get enough!

 

And, yeah...I just love Sandal as a character. That his potential could be so much greater than we can guess at is just the icing on the cake. Just had to bring him up, couldn't help myself. I  miss him!

[angelofsol]

Good distinction between Old God sexes and specific person genders. While it seems DA sticks close to alignment (well...until and/or dependent on how you interpret the closing cutscene, lol), no way to know for sure. I will say this, though: Kieran is male whether he's OGB or regular boy, if that makes a difference to you.

 

As for the rest, I LOVE the mystery of how much are Tevinter and Elvhen enmeshed or not. So many possibilities, I can't get enough!

 

And, yeah...I just love Sandal as a character. That his potential could be so much greater than we can guess at is just the icing on the cake. Just had to bring him up, couldn't help myself. I  miss him!

Had forgotten about that.  Way to totally punch a hole in my Morrigan theory!  Hate you now, LOL.

Yeah... no way around that one........... except by fiat, and I'm not a fan of fiats.... they all had girls... until now.... because we want it that way, no reason!  I'd not be a fan of that, not when at this point in the game we're clinging on to bits and pieces trying to piece what really happened together from the little bit we have.  About the only thing I can imagine beyond that is the info we have from the Chantry isn't right... that Andraste's line only having girls isn't correct.

I sure hope we're not thrown for some loop like.... except the love child she had with Shartan!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ashagar]

Does anyone have a picture of the Black City in Inquisition? I was looking for it in the distance but literally couldn't find it anywhere. 

 

I didn't see it either unless its possible the nightmare area is literally on the outskirts of the black city and we simply didn't recognize it seeing it so close. I recall Solas or another companion comments on how the black city was so close you could almost touch it when you were in the nightmare area of the fade which would make sense I guess since nightmare had been feeding on the fear of thedas caused by the blight and the darkspawn since the first blight which is why its so powerful you can't kill it. It been feeding on the fear of a continent  for over 1400 years and as a codex puts it a fear demon feeding on the fear of even a country is enough to make one powerful enough to warp the fade.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

I assume archedemons are physically female. They are high dragons so that makes them female. As to their soul, that is open to debate. I don't think corrupted beings care what gender the body happens to be.

 

I'm waiting for the descendants of Andraste and Shartan to show up, like maybe Sandal is one, or even a Dalish inquisitor LOL. Maybe that's where the elvhen got the quickening, none are pure elvhen anymore?

 

I still think elves had something to do with the blight to begin with - Tevinter magic is based on old elvhen magic. Also do you remember Fenris's ex master having rather pointy ears yet never being noted as being a half breed elf? Do some magisterial lines have slightly pointy ears, thus have elvhen ancestors and, it's normal but, they are not considered to be elvhen at all?

 

So many possibilities, and it appears the elves had a bigger part in it all than we used to think.

[angelofsol]

I assume archedemons are physically female. They are high dragons so that makes them female. As to their soul, that is open to debate. I don't think corrupted beings care what gender the body happens to be.

 

I'm waiting for the descendants of Andraste and Shartan to show up, like maybe Sandal is one, or even a Dalish inquisitor LOL. Maybe that's where the elvhen got the quickening, none are pure elvhen anymore?

 

I still think elves had something to do with the blight to begin with - Tevinter magic is based on old elvhen magic. Also do you remember Fenris's ex master having rather pointy ears yet never being noted as being a half breed elf? Do some magisterial lines have slightly pointy ears, thus have elvhen ancestors and, it's normal but, they are not considered to be elvhen at all?

 

So many possibilities, and it appears the elves had a bigger part in it all than we used to think.

The wiki all has them listed as male.  Some have also stated that they're even bigger than high dragons.

Click on their individual names and look at their info under their pictures.  http://dragonage.wik...om/wiki/Old_God
 

[Clockwork_Wings]

It's possible they're masculinized by Tevinter for cultural reasons, or that they (or some of them) are drakes that, for whatever reason, grew as large as a female and a functioning set of wings.  Kind of the reverse of a female narwhal with a horn.

[Aren]

I belive that the black city is somthing different and is not Arlathan, is the source of the taint and also the supposed home of Elgar Nan the god  of vengeance who have decided for some reason to destroy eveything related to  the old world   with the creators and the old gods, maybe vengeance against the slavery.

[ZawiszaTheBlack]

Later on a found a new codex entry that talks about a city completely disapearing (including a huge chunk of ground) There was also other stuff about it, sounds like black city to me.

 
It was the Barindur City. I talked wih Solas and he said it was destroyed by vulcano and covered by it's ashes like Pompei.
 
 

Does anyone have a picture of the Black City in Inquisition? I was looking for it in the distance but literally couldn't find it anywhere.

 

You can see it on the left, I believe.

Spoiler

 

 

From the Codex entry: A Different Darkspawn?:

Reminds me of a story my grandsire used to tell, about something his grandsire did. Said he once came upon a group of three darkspawn in the Deeper Roads, each twice the size of any Dwarf - bigger than Humans, even - and dressed up like kings. He watched from the shadows and said they talked, like people, about things he couldn't understand. A city gone black, and they blamed each other for things but could barely remember for what. My Mam was like that: never remembered the slight, just that she was angry. Story goes they attacked each other, and one ran off while the second choked the third to death and then ate him.

It seems like the CIty was gold. I still think that Corypheus was mad because City was supposed to be gold, but gone black. That's why he said: "It was supposed to be golden!". Also he said "I have walked the halls of the Golden City, crossed the ages...". I'm wondering how the Magisters ended up deep in the Deep Roads, as well as the old Gods. He said "It was supposed to be ours!". Something happend and sent them back. They expected to enter the Golden City and conquer it, not to corrupt it and be currupted and sent back to the physical world - "It was supposed to be golden! it was supposed to be ours!".

 

Dumat was killed and Corypheus was captured after the First Blight. But how he doesn't know about Dumat's death? Why does he pray to him during the last battle?

[Rifneno]

I didn't see it either unless its possible the nightmare area is literally on the outskirts of the black city and we simply didn't recognize it seeing it so close. I recall Solas or another companion comments on how the black city was so close you could almost touch it when you were in the nightmare area of the fade which would make sense I guess since nightmare had been feeding on the fear of thedas caused by the blight and the darkspawn since the first blight which is why its so powerful you can't kill it. It been feeding on the fear of a continent  for over 1400 years and as a codex puts it a fear demon feeding on the fear of even a country is enough to make one powerful enough to warp the fade.

This alone is interesting.

 

"Dreamers do not go there, nor do spirits. Even the most powerful demons seem to avoid the place." - codex on the Black City

 

If Corypheus' nightmare demon is truly right next to the Black City, he's the first known demon/spirit/entity to not avoid it like the plague.

[azarhal]

 

Dumat was killed and Corypheus was captured after the First Blight. But how he doesn't know about Dumat's death? Why does he pray to him during the last battle?

 

The Claw of Dumat codex in DAI says that Dumat stopped talking to the Magisters before they decided to enter the Golden City. Going by some Solas/Cass banter, I don't think the Archdemons were really the Old Gods so Corypheus might not have cared at all about them being killed. We only have the Chant of Light that claims that they were and it might not be accurate by how DAI stress how historical facts are distorted by time (Flemeth, Solas and Cassandra all comment on it, especially Cass, I think it shows up in half her cutscenes).

[Ashagar]

Reverend Mother Giselle pointedly points out that the chant of light was altered later by the chantry like the parts mentioning elves being cut out and that because it was heard first then written down some parts could have even misheard at the very beginning. She does then when asked how Corpyheus's account and the chants account match but don't quite match. Of course she also points out how Corpyheus could be misremembering somethings himself out of pride and other reasons.

 

The lore does point out that until recently Corypheus was confused and even more messed up in the head than when he pulled off his mess in inquisition when the wardens caught him and imprisoned he was wandering confused. The lore also points out that there are other darkspawn magisters were in the deep roads who were spotted arguing about what happened but barely remembered what happened themselves.

[ZawiszaTheBlack]

So many questions, so many unclear informations... It makes the Black City myth very interesting, but hell... I would love to know the truth! We have three big riddles: The Black City, The Old Gods and The Elven Gods.

[AsheraII]

The Claw of Dumat codex in DAI says that Dumat stopped talking to the Magisters before they decided to enter the Golden City. Going by some Solas/Cass banter, I don't think the Archdemons were really the Old Gods so Corypheus might not have cared at all about them being killed. We only have the Chant of Light that claims that they were and it might not be accurate by how DAI stress how historical facts are distorted by time (Flemeth, Solas and Cassandra all comment on it, especially Cass, I think it shows up in half her cutscenes).

Interesting. Could that imply that the Magisters actually weren't talking with Dumat, but instead with some demon impersonating Dumat to lure them into the fade? I see room there for Bioware to sometime add a (rare?) Deceit demon or something like that, after the sin that isn't part of the classical 7 Deadly Sins, but also doesn't really seem to fit under any one of them.

[ZawiszaTheBlack]

There is a theory about the Old Gods actually being the Elven Gods. ​It would work... if the Orb is able to open the breach to every single location in the world or Fade. Does he really need to use such a magic to go to the Deep Roads? It's possible.
 
I don't think that Archdemons are the vessels for the essences of the Elven Gods, but actually for their souls. It makes more sense. We know that they were imprisoned and Fen'Harel needs the Orb. It's useful if the Dread Wolf's goal is to save the rest of his kind before the Dark Spawn will currupt them which means death at the hands of the Grey Wardens.
 
The next important thing is the reason for Dumat's whispers to Tevinters about the Golden City. Maybe the City was something different before corruption and Dumat (one of the Elven Gods) wanted to get something from it or just corrupt the entire Thedas as his revange? We know that Magisters ended up in the Deep Roads, starting the First Blight. I think that Dumat cheated on them to go out of his prison to destroy the world which wasn't the same after their banishment and the Blight was his weapon. Flemeth said that Mythal was betrayed as well as the world was.

 

But... there is no answer why Dumat would say that the Golden City is Maker's home and who the hell is Maker? It seems that myth about Maker and his City was older than Tevinter. It makes no sense with the theory that Fen'Harel (when he was dreaming) introduced himself to Andraste as Maker to punish Tevinter which destroyed the Elves completely (right after they started destroying themselves). It makes no sense, because Andraste was born after Magister's arrival in the Black City, so Maker was created by Dumat to convice Tevinter to go to the Black City or he really exists.

[o Ventus]

The Black City is NOT always equidistant relative to the rest of the Fade. It's only equidistant in the sense that you can't get any closer or further from it than your entry point. That bit of lore from DA:O has been contradicted twice:

In DA:A, when the darkspawn "First" pulls you into the Fade, you should notice that the Black City is MUCH closer than normal.

And again in DA:I, the Black City is practically close enough to touch, as Solas puts it. Once again, the magic involved with opening the gateway to the Fade involved the Blight (Warden mages).

I would theorize that Blight Magic, if such a thing really exists, can draw one closer to the source of the Blight in the Fade. Hence the the Black City being closer than normal in these instances.

I haven't played DAA in a long time, but in regards to DAI, that's because you're in the Fade physically as opposed to while in a dream-state.

[Aren]

My thoughts.... The Maker is the nameless Sun God of Elvhen lore.  Therefore Mythal is the "bride" of the Maker.

Andraste got the soul of Mythal before Flemeth.  Therefore Andraste is the "bride of the Maker".

Flemeth is a descendant of Andraste.  Wouldn't surprise me if Morrigan is too, potentially a descendant of Flemeth.

The Elvhen "gods" rose up against the Sun God... aka the Maker.  In the process Mythal was murdered.  This is likely when the Blight began... could be the blood of "gods" or the anger of the maker against them made manifest... who knows.  I have half a dozen thoughts after reading other people's theories on things and no firm belief I hold to on the blight just yet.  The Sun God/Maker upset over the warring of his children and his wife's death took off.... think of it as leaving unruly kids to orchestrate their own destruction (letting them have their way until they realize that it isn't so great to have their own way).  Likely Fen'Harel got fed up with what the Elvhen 'gods" were doing and having been very close to Mythal decided he was going to lock up these petty and unruly Gods.  

So he worked his magic and the Elvhen Gods were banished.  I wouldn't be surprised in one group of them were banished underground, likely having vested part of their beings in dragons who thus became the Tevinter Old Gods.  Likely the first darkspawn were their Elvhen followers/slaves.  Don't know if they good gods were the ones banished underground or if it was actually the Forgotten Ones.

The Elvhen empire was destroyed by the previous warring of their gods and the subsequent slave revolt so Tevinter had easy pickings.

Whatever gods were underground they started being worshiped by Tevinter.  Using the Tevinter Magisters they are trying to approach the Maker to get him to undue things and set things right, or maybe they're seeking the other half of the Elvhen pantheon... to set things right?  For revenge?  Maybe they're thinking that Fen'Harel did this all to take over and that he's living large on the Maker's throne and they are really seeking him out to try to get this all undone.  Regardless the Tevinter Magisters don't really know the Old God's real motivations, they're being used and sold a story to secure their co-operation.

The Magisters get there and realize they've been misinformed but whatever is there it doesn't go well for them.  They get thrown down.  Don't know if they're actually tainted there or if they get tainted after being thrown down.  If so the taint/blight might seriously be caught up in whatever is keeping these two groups of Elvhen "gods" seperate and in their respective places.  

We know that a "song" is being caught up with the blight.  Flemeth often talks about a "dance" and in DAI she says that as long as it sings they dance.  Seems to really be a curse from the Maker or an intrinsic part of whatever Fen'Harel did to keep the two groups apart.

I'm guessing the darkspawn seek the "Old God Dragons" not because of the song (since the dragons aren't tainted until the darkspawn reach them) but because they're from slaves of those Old Gods and they're instictually seeking their masters.

Mythal via Andraste is trying to save everyone but she's foiled yet again, betrayed, and well... surprise! Murdered.  However, what Andraste talks about with the black city being defiled and the origin of the darkspawn is taken by those around her to mean the Tevinter Magisters as it was more current (or politicized at that time), but that's not what she meant at all.

The Tevinter Chantry isn't entirely wrong about darkspawn... darkspawn were around before the Tevinter Magisters breeched the city.

Have no clue if I'm on the right track with any of this.  We really need more info.  I hope we get it in time.

??? who is this sun  god do you take this information from elven legends? Elven legends are wrong, the sun is only an allegory to try to introduce the most powerful being around the elven lore Elgar nan.

The sun is not a god.

[herkles]

So many questions, so many unclear informations... It makes the Black City myth very interesting, but hell... I would love to know the truth! We have three big riddles: The Black City, The Old Gods and The Elven Gods.

don't forget the Avvar Gods and goddeses!

[ZawiszaTheBlack]

don't forget the Avvar Gods and goddeses!

 

Need more data. ^^

[herkles]

Need more data. ^^

from the wiki here is a list of the gods and goddess of the Avvar, at least the more important ones in their faith.

 

• Korth the Mountain-Father: also known as father of the skies. He is the eldest god and everything in the frostbacks comes from him. the Avvar believe that the dwarves are his children and that the caves and tunnels of the dwarven mountains were carved by Korth.
• Lady of the Skies: goddess of the sky and dead. She is the goddess of the air and all that dwels within it. This also includes the dead, for the Avvar believe that the dead fly to the sky, thus she also is a protector of the dead.
• Hakkon Wintersbreath: Korth's firstborn son. He is the lord of battle and the lord of winter. Due to him, the avvar tend to raid in the winter
• Sigfrost: the great bear is the god of wisdom. Because of his connection with bears, many avvars hold bears in high regard and rarely hunt them, they even view bearskin leather as blasphemous to Sigfrost. If they have to hunt bears it is done with the utmost respect
• Imhar the Clever: the trickster god of the Avvar. The most popular of Imhar's tales are the ones that involve jest and mockery.
• Uvolla: the lady of the widding wood. not much is known about her, save she is said to accept living offerings.

[ZawiszaTheBlack]

@herkles

Thanks! I wouldn't be suprised if every single god or goddes was based on the original and (maybe) true pantheon.

[herkles]

@herkles

Thanks! I wouldn't be suprised if every single god or goddes was based on the original and (maybe) true pantheon.

it is possible, some of the Avvar deites bear a slight similarity with the elven ones.  

 

On the other hand, it could also be that there are far more 'gods' then what we know. After all, the avvar also worship various spirits from the fade. Sure their greater gods get more prayers, but they do worship spirits as well as legendary heroes and Heroines*. I see no reason why for instance spirits of Wisdom, Compassion, choice, valour and so on, could not be worshiped as minor gods and goddesses. 

 

The sad thing, is that we might not get to see more of the Avvar due to the fact we are going north and they live mainly in the frostback mountains. 

 

 

*I like the Avvar as they are the most realistic polytheists that I have seen so far in dragon age, and thus is closest to my faith(Hellenismos/greek polytheism)

[ZawiszaTheBlack]

It seems that many spirits are responsible for minor and major events during the whole history of Thedas.

[Shahadem]

Had forgotten about that.  Way to totally punch a hole in my Morrigan theory!  Hate you now, LOL.

Yeah... no way around that one........... except by fiat, and I'm not a fan of fiats.... they all had girls... until now.... because we want it that way, no reason!  I'd not be a fan of that, not when at this point in the game we're clinging on to bits and pieces trying to piece what really happened together from the little bit we have.  About the only thing I can imagine beyond that is the info we have from the Chantry isn't right... that Andraste's line only having girls isn't correct.

I sure hope we're not thrown for some loop like.... except the love child she had with Shartan!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Coincidentally, Flemeth's children are always girls who she then possesses and starts the process over with...