77 réponses à ce sujet

[Nafuron]

Hello,

 

who is the Class with the highest dmg output?

Reaver, Assasine, ....?

 

 

[Zenthar Aseth]

Assassin.

[SpaceV3gan]

Tempest. You can kill dragons in seconds.

[Matth85]

Tempest. You can kill dragons in seconds.

Better than solo a High Dragon in 20 seconds flat?

 

Assassin.

[SpaceV3gan]

Well, soloing is something else. A Tempest might in theory solo the Hissing Wastes Dragon in a very short time, but not all them.
There is a video of Sera + Cole's Mark of Death beating the Highlands Ravager in 6 seconds with glitched Thousand Cuts, though two Tempests + Cole could likely accomplish it without glitch.

[Matth85]

Well, soloing is something else. A Tempest might in theory solo the Hissing Wastes Dragon in a very short time, but not all them.
There is a video of Sera + Cole's Mark of Death beating the Highlands Ravager in 6 seconds with glitched Thousand Cuts, though two Tempests + Cole could likely accomplish it without glitch.

max dmg output?

 

That would imply your character. At least I understood it as such.

 

If we are talking team composition, tempest still loses to both artificer and assassin.

 

You Assassin - Mark of Death

Sera - FoL

Blackwall - That taunt thingy

Solas - Static Cage

 

Mark of Death - Sera pops FoL - You do your combo - Stuff is dead within seconds.

 

In no scenario but focus-spamming would a tempest be good. Only a DW rogue tempest is better than an artificer, as dw artificer isn't as optimal -- since they do not lack abilities -- hence does not lack CDs. 

 

I love tempest for what it is -- but it is not the dps spec out of the rogue specializations. Just as Knight Enchanter isn't the damage specialization of mages. They are what they are and work well. They just don't beat out the rest.

[SpaceV3gan]

A single cast of Thousand Cuts can take 1/2 of Hivernal's health, maybe even 3/5. Following up with FoL put the damage even further.
And as we all know, Sandy Howler goes down with only a single cast of FoL + a passive party.
I don't agree that the Tempest is not a damage oriented specialization. I see it pretty much as a glass cannon, as the other two specs. But you have more experience in the game than I do (particularly with DW) and you have inspired with some of your build approaches, so I take your views seriously.

[Matth85]

A single cast of Thousand Cuts can take 1/2 of Hivernal's health, maybe even 3/5. Following up with FoL put the damage even further.
And as we all know, Sandy Howler goes down with only a single cast of FoL + a passive party.
I don't agree that the Tempest is not a damage oriented specialization. I see it pretty much as a glass cannon, as the other two specs. But you have more experience in the game than I do (particularly with DW) and you have inspired with some of your build approaches, so I take your views seriously.

The focus ability is indeed strong -- but that's it. 

Flask of Fire gives you 4-5 abilties off.

Flask of Frost gives no pure damage.

Flask of Lightning gives no pure damage.

 

If anything, the tempest is the warrior-rogue specialization of DA I.

 

An Assassin will simply outdps a tempest in any scenario. It requires less gear, no exploits or focus ability. Even with all that, an assassin will out dps a single tempest. The assassin specialization is made for insane damage in small intervals -- the developer just forgot to balance their game, meaning the burst an assassin do is enough to take down a High dragon in 5 second, every 32 (I think) second. 

[Rynas]

Better than solo a High Dragon in 20 seconds flat?

 

Assassin.

 

How?

[SpaceV3gan]

The focus ability is indeed strong -- but that's it.
Flask of Fire gives you 4-5 abilties off.
Flask of Frost gives no pure damage.
Flask of Lightning gives no pure damage.

If anything, the tempest is the warrior-rogue specialization of DA I.

An Assassin will simply outdps a tempest in any scenario. It requires less gear, no exploits or focus ability. Even with all that, an assassin will out dps a single tempest. The assassin specialization is made for insane damage in small intervals -- the developer just forgot to balance their game, meaning the burst an assassin do is enough to take down a High dragon in 5 second, every 32 (I think) second.

Even with exploits, the Tempest is out damaged by the Assassin? I wasn't expecting that.
And I oppose exploits. I don't like seeing Thousand Cuts as a normal ability. I stopped playing with my Tempest since it had a tendency to make me lazier.

Though the two initial Flasks are somewhat weaker and situational on their own, Flask of Lightning is a maniac's Haste. It is certainly too dependent on gear, positioning, timing, but the damage is considerable. Taking a High Dragon in one cast is not for any ability in the game.

[Zenthar Aseth]

 

Flask of Lightning gives no pure damage.

That depends on how you look at it, though. It doesn't give a real time damage per second increase, but it does give you a game time DPS increase. When nobody else is doing anything, that means those seconds you spent attacking for free do not exist for the NPCs, so you did "all that damage" instantly, for all intents and purposes. 

[Matth85]

That depends on how you look at it, though. It doesn't give a real time damage per second increase, but it does give you a game time DPS increase. When nobody else is doing anything, that means those seconds you spent attacking for free do not exist for the NPCs, so you did "all that damage" instantly, for all intents and purposes. 

 

No.

 

When nobody is doing anything, you survive longer. Unless there is a second perspective in the game, which there isn't, the slowdown is not a damage, or dps, increase. Let's call a spade a spade now. I know half the people want to feel like a ninja, and feel like they do a million attacks an hour. Sure, go ahead. It's not waht is happening in real life -- but whatever. There is a thread on this already, and I don't feel like cluttering another one with the same discussion

[Zenthar Aseth]

No.

 

When nobody is doing anything, you survive longer. Unless there is a second perspective in the game, which there isn't, the slowdown is not a damage, or dps, increase. Let's call a spade a spade now. I know half the people want to feel like a ninja, and feel like they do a million attacks an hour. Sure, go ahead. It's not waht is happening in real life -- but whatever. There is a thread on this already, and I don't feel like cluttering another one with the same discussion

When nobody is doing anything, you survive longer and if you're attacking during this time, you're also doing more damage. The slowdown is a damage increase precisely because there isn't a second perspective in the game. Calling spade a spade would mean calling FoL a damage increase - you insert all those extra seconds of damage into the fight, without anything else changing at all. It's precisely the same as Sera using FoL when you're not controlling her, and it's a DPS increase for her.

 

That said, I'm not trying to convert you, and you're free to disagree, who cares. But there are differing opinions on whether FoL is a damage increase or not, and it's not just me who thinks so.

[ICSM]

How?

Like this

youtube.com/watch?v=EeOsVLOULg8

[Rynas]

Wha...how is Hidden Blades critting for over 8k per strike?  And what's that potion he's drinking at the start?

 

[Edit] Nevermind, it's this: http://dragonage3.wi...y Offense Tonic

[Rynas]

When nobody is doing anything, you survive longer and if you're attacking during this time, you're also doing more damage. The slowdown is a damage increase precisely because there isn't a second perspective in the game. Calling spade a spade would mean calling FoL a damage increase - you insert all those extra seconds of damage into the fight, without anything else changing at all. It's precisely the same as Sera using FoL when you're not controlling her, and it's a DPS increase for her.

 

That said, I'm not trying to convert you, and you're free to disagree, who cares. But there are differing opinions on whether FoL is a damage increase or not, and it's not just me who thinks so.

 

Right.  DPS = Damage Per Second.  With FoL you can do your usual damage in 1/100th of the time, which means 100x damage per second.  For about 0.1 seconds.  (Of course, you could do other stuff during that time too, which is also nice.)

[Rynas]

Like this

youtube.com/watch?v=EeOsVLOULg8

 

Hehe, thanks for introducing me to that potion.  I didn't know it existed.  Sandy Howler went down to a single cast of Thousand Blades, poor bastard.

[Matth85]

Right.  DPS = Damage Per Second.  With FoL you can do your usual damage in 1/100th of the time, which means 100x damage per second.  For about 0.1 seconds.  (Of course, you could do other stuff during that time too, which is also nice.)

For this to be true, it requires a secondary or tertiary point of view of the battlefield. An entity that could perceive what is happening unrelated to you. 

There isn't.

 

Either you slow down the time, and you see everything slows down. Time doesn't go faster in any other point of views. The dragon, or your team, are pixels that don't perceive or understand. So when 8 seconds go for you, 8 second have passed. your damage is total damage / 8 seconds. 

If, say, Sera uses FoL(Or you change character) - you change perspective yourself. Time does not alter. The effect just changes. Sera won't "see" the slowdown. The computer just tells her "AttackSpeed x *Whatever*". 

 

The programming is not 2 fold. The effect is 2 different effects. 1 when you control the character, one when you don't. They serve 2 different purposes. The dps differs in them. 

 

So, unless you have found a way to get a second player to be in your team as you use FoL, or you somehow transferred your consciousness to the dragon, FoL slowdown is not a dps increase or a damage increase. It's a damage decrease in terms of the damage you could have done by then. On the other hand, you can move in a near stopped-environment, meaning you can position and survive easier. Neither is a pure dps or damage increase, but can lead to it.

* The only exception here is if you use Mercy Killing as a talent and the target is asleep. Those 3 second with guaranteed crit becomes near 10 seconds.

 

Can we not discuss this here? There are another thread with this crap filled with it. No need to fill more.

[Zenthar Aseth]

Your effective DPS does not decrease if you pause the game. Tempest pauses the game, but also does 9 seconds worth of damage during the pause, before it unpauses. So yes, it's an effective DPS increase.

[Matth85]

Your effective DPS does not decrease if you pause the game. Tempest pauses the game, but also does 9 seconds worth of damage during the pause, before it unpauses. So yes, it's an effective DPS increase.

Not a good argument.

No.

But keep telling yourself that, despite how it works. 

 

Also

Can we not discuss this here? There are another thread with this crap filled with it. No need to fill more

 

[Zenthar Aseth]

Not a good argument.

No.

But keep telling yourself that, despite how it works. 

 

Also

Your arguments aren't good. But keep telling yourself that, despite how it works. Whew, that was easy, everything you said, disproved!

 

Nobody forces you to discuss anything.

[Matth85]

Your arguments aren't good. But keep telling yourself that, despite how it works. Whew, that was easy, everything you said, disproved!

 

Nobody forces you to discuss anything.

Am I talking to a wall? er...

If you want to discuss it, go to the right thread and I will argue your ears out, if that is your wish. Here, on the other hand, it's irrelevant discussion that helps nobody. 

 

yeah?

[Nafuron]

where is the reaer in this discuss?

[Zenthar Aseth]

Am I talking to a wall? er...

If you want to discuss it, go to the right thread and I will argue your ears out, if that is your wish. Here, on the other hand, it's irrelevant discussion that helps nobody. 

 

yeah?

On the contrary, it's extremely relevant to this thread.

[Rynas]

For this to be true, it requires a secondary or tertiary point of view of the battlefield. An entity that could perceive what is happening unrelated to you. 

 

No.  It does not.  There is only one game clock.  From the time FoL starts to when it ends, 0.07-0.11 seconds have passed in game time.  Whether you perceive it from the FoL or non-FoL point of view is irrelevant.  From the point of view of your target, your DPS has increased 100x.

 

 

 

Either you slow down the time, and you see everything slows down. Time doesn't go faster in any other point of views. The dragon, or your team, are pixels that don't perceive or understand. So when 8 seconds go for you, 8 second have passed. your damage is total damage / 8 seconds. 

 

By that argument, everyone else's DPS has decreased to 1/100th of normal.  There is no substantive difference between saying "Your DPS has increased 100x" and "Everyone else in the universe has their DPS reduced to 1/100th."

 

[Edit: missing word]